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Descending with a Microcender
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houser52


Jun 14, 2012, 7:20 AM
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Descending with a Microcender
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I am not a rock climber but you guys have helped me in the past. I have a Petzl Microscender and want to use it this year as a rope grab safety device while deer hunting from an elevated stand.

With the Microscender connected to my belay loop, when descending my hunting ladder, what's the best way to hold the cam open so I can descend the ladder and it still catch me if I should slip?

I already use a Ropeman and it's very easy to hold the cam open using the attached cable and descend. The Microscender has less drag when ascending than the Ropeman is the reason I'd like to use it.

Thanks for the help.


shockabuku


Jun 14, 2012, 8:07 AM
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Re: [houser52] Descending with a Microcender [In reply to]
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houser52 wrote:
I am not a rock climber but you guys have helped me in the past. I have a Petzl Microscender and want to use it this year as a rope grab safety device while deer hunting from an elevated stand.

With the Microscender connected to my belay loop, when descending my hunting ladder, what's the best way to hold the cam open so I can descend the ladder and it still catch me if I should slip?

I already use a Ropeman and it's very easy to hold the cam open using the attached cable and descend. The Microscender has less drag when ascending than the Ropeman is the reason I'd like to use it.

Thanks for the help.

The microcender is not designed as a fall safety device. There is no designed in mechanism to re-engage the cam in the event of a fall; it is only designed to lock onto the rope and slide upward. If you hold the cam open manually, or through some other contrived rigging, so that you can descend it's likely not to re-engage when you need it to. A better solution is to disengage the microcender and use an alternative safety device while lowering. The simplest is a friction hitch applied to your rope and harness. If you want something more complex, look for the Petzl Shunt.


houser52


Jun 14, 2012, 9:00 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] Descending with a Microcender [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
houser52 wrote:
I am not a rock climber but you guys have helped me in the past. I have a Petzl Microscender and want to use it this year as a rope grab safety device while deer hunting from an elevated stand.

With the Microscender connected to my belay loop, when descending my hunting ladder, what's the best way to hold the cam open so I can descend the ladder and it still catch me if I should slip?

I already use a Ropeman and it's very easy to hold the cam open using the attached cable and descend. The Microscender has less drag when ascending than the Ropeman is the reason I'd like to use it.

Thanks for the help.

The microcender is not designed as a fall safety device. There is no designed in mechanism to re-engage the cam in the event of a fall; it is only designed to lock onto the rope and slide upward. If you hold the cam open manually, or through some other contrived rigging, so that you can descend it's likely not to re-engage when you need it to. A better solution is to disengage the microcender and use an alternative safety device while lowering. The simplest is a friction hitch applied to your rope and harness. If you want something more complex, look for the Petzl Shunt.

shockabuku- Thanks for the suggestions. I have been using friction hitches in years past but wanted something more safe and efficient.

Thanks


Urban_Cowboy


Jun 15, 2012, 12:06 AM
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Re: [houser52] Descending with a Microcender [In reply to]
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houser52 wrote:
shockabuku- Thanks for the suggestions. I have been using friction hitches in years past but wanted something more safe and efficient.

Thanks
Petzl ASAP. A little expensive, but the best isn't cheap. I've never used them for recreation, only for work.




houser52


Jun 15, 2012, 7:25 AM
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Thanks for the tip. Another one looked good too, the Kong Back-Up and it's very similar to the ASAP.


houser52


Jun 15, 2012, 9:33 AM
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Re: [houser52] Descending with a Microcender [In reply to]
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I've also been reading about the Petzl Shunt this morning. Thanks shockabuku.

From the description, it functions just like a prussic. As with the prussic I would have to raise and lower the device as I climb or descend the ladder.


shockabuku


Jun 15, 2012, 10:49 AM
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Re: [houser52] Descending with a Microcender [In reply to]
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houser52 wrote:
I've also been reading about the Petzl Shunt this morning. Thanks shockabuku.

From the description, it functions just like a prussic. As with the prussic I would have to raise and lower the device as I climb or descend the ladder.

Actually it works more like an ascender. It will slide up, but only slides down when you hold the lever open. Let go of the lever and it locks up.


houser52


Jun 15, 2012, 11:07 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] Descending with a Microcender [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
houser52 wrote:
I've also been reading about the Petzl Shunt this morning. Thanks shockabuku.

From the description, it functions just like a prussic. As with the prussic I would have to raise and lower the device as I climb or descend the ladder.

Actually it works more like an ascender. It will slide up, but only slides down when you hold the lever open. Let go of the lever and it locks up.

Yep. I also read where some people use a small accessory cord to pull it down the rope when descending which makes you less likely to grab the lever and hold it open, preventing it from grabbing.


shockabuku


Jun 15, 2012, 1:26 PM
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Re: [houser52] Descending with a Microcender [In reply to]
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houser52 wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
houser52 wrote:
I've also been reading about the Petzl Shunt this morning. Thanks shockabuku.

From the description, it functions just like a prussic. As with the prussic I would have to raise and lower the device as I climb or descend the ladder.

Actually it works more like an ascender. It will slide up, but only slides down when you hold the lever open. Let go of the lever and it locks up.

Yep. I also read where some people use a small accessory cord to pull it down the rope when descending which makes you less likely to grab the lever and hold it open, preventing it from grabbing.

Where'd you read that? I'd be interested to read it as I can't imagine how you would do it.


houser52


Jun 15, 2012, 1:44 PM
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Re: [shockabuku] Descending with a Microcender [In reply to]
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Sorry but I've looked through so many threads on different sights I can't remember where I saw it.

Wherever I saw it the person recommended using a single strand of small 3mm accessory cord with only a knot in the tail of it so you couldn't grab onto it with any strength. He said don't use a looped cord.

I haven't seen a Shunt yet but it sounds like there might be a small hole near the bottom that the cord is attached to.

Edit- Here's where I saw the article

http://www.ropeworksgear.com/s.nl/it.I/id.79/.f


(This post was edited by houser52 on Jun 15, 2012, 2:11 PM)


USnavy


Jun 15, 2012, 4:40 PM
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Re: [Urban_Cowboy] Descending with a Microcender [In reply to]
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Urban_Cowboy wrote:
houser52 wrote:
shockabuku- Thanks for the suggestions. I have been using friction hitches in years past but wanted something more safe and efficient.

Thanks
Petzl ASAP. A little expensive, but the best isn't cheap. I've never used them for recreation, only for work.

[image]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eXhK7Wl7L._SL500_AA300_.jpg[/image]
That needs to be used in conjunction with an energy absorbing lanyard if it is used on static rope.


shockabuku


Jun 15, 2012, 6:05 PM
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Interesting. I guess if the cord pulls directly on the body as opposed to the lever it will slide down the rope.

Interestingly in a brief search I also found that they don't recommend this for professional use anymore.

"Previous Petzl statements required special training for this specific use of the Petzl Shunt. The lack of any described methods or special training therefore makes these previous Petzl statements obsolete.

As a measure of precaution, Petzl recommends to NOT use the Petzl Shunt, while towed by a cord, as a back-up device in rope access."

http://www.petzl.com/...cial-use-petzl-shunt


snoboy


Jul 27, 2012, 3:56 PM
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Re: [shockabuku] Descending with a Microcender [In reply to]
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Towing the SHUNT was until recently standard practice for rope access technicians. Works well with practice. Can also be done with a microcender. The ASAP would work well for your application. The Kong Backup is a bit fussy in my experience and only trails well on ropes close to vertical.


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