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mudman30360
Jun 12, 2012, 9:27 PM
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I am interested in getting into the sport and was curious on where to get the appropriate training to do so.
Any Information would be greatly appreciated!!
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jae8908
Jun 12, 2012, 11:09 PM
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Go to the nearest rock climbing gym and take the basic belay class. Make friends with the climbers there and learn all that you can from them.
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mudman30360
Jun 12, 2012, 11:15 PM
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Thanks
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marc801
Jun 12, 2012, 11:30 PM
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mudman30360 wrote: I am interested in getting into the sport and was curious on where to get the appropriate training to do so. Any Information would be greatly appreciated!!
YER
GONNA
DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, that was the other obligatory response.
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LV-Climbing
Jun 25, 2012, 8:32 AM
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Registered: Jun 21, 2012
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That was awesome....Good laugh
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sungam
Jun 25, 2012, 1:48 PM
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Your post processing is getting really good. I reckon yours are the best climbing information videos on the internetz. [/ballcupping]
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mikebarter387
Jun 25, 2012, 4:24 PM
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Our Plan is to become the one stop spot for a lot of what gets asked here. I often come here for ideas about what folks who are just starting out want and/or need to know..
A couple Canadian Guides are working on a crevasse rescue video as every time they go to teach it there is no good refrence on the internet. There are several almost good but they all have technical details or the video /audio is not good enough.
I recently got a good Science guy and we will be producing a video on KN. You know that invisible force that everybody knows about but can never explain. Why here is a advanced look at the script. This is a 4 part series with a planned Mike's Mail follow up By Jerry McKay "The Science Guy"
I Know Newton!
Mike Barter Asks:
“In the attempt to cover everything I would like to add some physics or at least a rudimentary understanding of the forces applied.
I guess what I would first like to know is what exactly is a KN as it is stamped om pretty much every piece of gear I own on some form or another. Is there a correlation between KN and pounds force. One fellow simplified things by explaining that a person hanging on a rope was equivalent to 1 KN. This seemed like a good start in explaining what a KN is. Or at least a reference that the average brain dead climber can understand.
Perhaps a few examples of how quickly these forces are created by examining a few fall factors. Difference between low stretch (static) rope and the dynamic climbing rope.
Perhaps a diffrence in anchor constructing material.
In the end does any of this really matter or having a good rule of thumb like not taking big whippers on bad gear or some such thing.
This video is really for the geek in the climber but also a useful reference for guides and instructors.
Perhaps a quick demo of multiplication of forces.
Subject 2: Where do the forces come from and how do they get there in our anchors.
An explanation of vectors how to create one and how to get rid of one.”
The Science Guy explains...
A kilo-newton, or kN as it is known, is a unit of Force in the Metric (SI) System. We all understand force as something that pulls on you. The most common force we experience, and the one most applicable to climbers perhaps, is called gravity. The force the earth pulls against your body is called your weight.
A force can be calculated by Newton’s First Law, F=M*A (force equals mass times acceleration). On earth that acceleration (A) is the rate you would fall if you jumped off a building, roughly 9.81 meters per second squared. The mass (M) is you - say 100 kg (about 220 lbs) so the force exerted by gravity is F=100kg x 9.81m/s2= 981 kg-m/s2.
One kg-m/s2 is a Newton. A thousand Newtons is a kN. As we can see a kN is roughly the force a person with a mass of just over 100kg would experience due to gravity. So your friend is correct Mike, a kN is roughly the force a somewhat heavy climber might exert on your rope while hanging from it.
The concept of acceleration due to gravity may need some explaining. As I stated the acceleration due to gravity is the rate you accelerate toward the earth if your rope breaks. The distance you will travel each second after the rope breaks can also be written as x=9.81*t2 where x is the distance in meters and t= how many seconds after it breaks. So in 3 seconds you will have travelled about 88 meters. Obviously you get going pretty fast pretty soon. So don’t fall.
Regarding the fall factor (f=h/l where h = length of fall and l= total amount of rope played out) and how that relates to the forces generated in the rope, I would suggest you consult Wikipedia for a good explanation of fall factors and dampened harmonic oscillator models. In the end it relates largely to the characteristics of the rope and the friction in your anchor. Generally the less stretchy your rope and the more friction at the caribiner the greater the force generated on the climber and anchor (more about this later).
Here is a chart of standardized UIAA tests showing inverse elongation factors versus forces generated...

As we can see from the rope tests (blue diamonds) the force increases as the rope’s relative elongation becomes smaller (to the right). Notice that it is not a linear relationship if you connect the blue dots. That is because elongation is only one factor among many that determine the force generated, others being internal friction in the rope as it stretches, external friction from the sheathing, etc.
What we can take from this graph is that even in severe falls the forces generated in the rope never exceed about 10kN. In real life rarely would you see more than about 3kN, and hopefully much less.
Theoretically a rope with no elongation would give us an infinite force from even the most minor fall. In practice even a chain has some stretch, but the forces generated from being stopped by a chain ( and most “static” ropes) after a 20m fall would probably snap you in two.
The fall factor (smaller being better) tells us that we should put in closely spaced anchors starting out on a lead and we can afford to put in more widely spaced anchors as more and more rope is played out.
So how do we get a feel for the forces generated during a fall on the climbers involved and the anchors that we put in to protect us? Stay tuned....
(more later)
(This post was edited by mikebarter387 on Jun 25, 2012, 4:26 PM)
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