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Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide?
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Poll: Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide?
Petzl Reverso 4 8 / 40%
Black Diamond ATC Guide 12 / 60%
20 total votes
 

splish


Jul 23, 2012, 1:07 AM
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Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide?
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<u>Petzl Reverso 4 Belay Device:</u>
Made in France
Weight: 59g
The Reverso 4 is an ultralight device that has an an autoblock configuration. It's excellent for multi-pitch rock and ice, and serviceable at the crag or gym. Bring up 1 or 2 seconds directly from the anchor with the autoblock feature.
Fits half ropes over 8mm, twins over 7.5mm, and singles 8.911mm.
Carabiner hole allows weighted device to be unloaded with a carabiner only when in autoblock mode.
Intuitive attachment point in autoblock mode and engraved usage diagrams.
V-shaped channels increase friction for thinner ropes, and increase holding power in autoblock mode.
Asymmetric side walls increase holding power in falls and on rappel, but allow rope to run smoothly when taking in slack.
Won't kink the rope regardless of mode being used.

<u>Black Diamond ATC Guide Belay Device:</u>
Made in China
Weight: 88g
Black Diamond's most versatile device features regular friction belay/rappel mode as well as high friction (3 times the regular friction) mode. It also works in autoblock mode to bring up 1 or 2 seconds. Smooth, grooved sides provide ease and control ascending or descending.
Hot forged aluminum body for strength.
Machined windows through the body lighten it up.
Beefy cable holds its shape and resists getting caught up in the device.
Recommended for use with 7.7 to 11mm diameter ropes.


(This post was edited by splish on Jul 23, 2012, 1:08 AM)


splish


Jul 23, 2012, 1:41 PM
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Re: [splish] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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Ok, so the ATC is in the lead!
So does someone care to comment as to why? I am going to purchase one of these two products. I can't see a large difference between them other than the obvious weight advantage of the Petzl. I personally have always leaned towards BD in most of my gear.

So what is the advantages of the BD?


hazcat


Jul 23, 2012, 2:14 PM
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Re: [splish] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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splish wrote:
Ok, so the ATC is in the lead!
So does someone care to comment as to why? I am going to purchase one of these two products. I can't see a large difference between them other than the obvious weight advantage of the Petzl. I personally have always leaned towards BD in most of my gear.

So what is the advantages of the BD?

assuming the 4 is the same as the 3 which I'm too lazy to check, it's a bit more convenient to lower someone when it's in autoblock mode IMHO. You just grab a carabiner and stick it in the hole. BD you have to rig something.

also IIRC the petlz instructions show catching a climber that falls below you off your harness as apparently unsupported, the climbing rope must be redirected through a piece of protection.

Somehow I doubt that it actually won't let you catch someone as well as an ATC would, but who knows. I'm guessing they just don't want to go there and choose to be in the should never catch someone off the harness camp, sorry didn't you read the manual buddy.

those are a few things to perhaps be aware of.. I use both actually and prefer the the BD for thicker more worn ropes, and the Petzl for thinner newer ropes. But maybe that's just because my petzl's newer and my BD's older :-D

cheers


splish


Jul 23, 2012, 2:29 PM
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Re: [hazcat] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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Thanks Hazcat.

I the 4 is slightly different from the 3 in that it has less material to it cutting down quite a bit of weight.

I did read the manuals to both, as well as watched the manufactuerers instructional videos, and about 100 user videos on each product. Honestly, it just made it worse.

So far, the only main differences I can see are the weight, and the orientation of the anchor for auto-lock mode. The BD beaner loop runs from top to bottom whereas the Petzl runs from left to right.

With the BD, you are supposed to sling a runner and yank to unlock, and the Petzl simply uses an open beaner.

In my opinion, the Petzl comes out ahead on time saved and weight, but I just want some more info based purely on experience.

How clean do the ropes run based on different sizes, friction and stuff.

Presently I climb on a beal joker 9.1 with a BD ATC-XP. I would like a little more fiction when belaying, so I was wondering how the Petzl performed.


Kartessa


Jul 23, 2012, 6:20 PM
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Re: [splish] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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6 of one, half dozen of the other.

Having sold hundreds of both, I've learned that most people pick one haphazardly, learn to use it and stick with the one they're used to

Theyve shaved out both, not just to save weight but also to prevent it overheating/help cool faster.


splish


Jul 23, 2012, 8:51 PM
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Re: [Kartessa] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
6 of one, half dozen of the other.

Having sold hundreds of both, I've learned that most people pick one haphazardly, learn to use it and stick with the one they're used to

Theyve shaved out both, not just to save weight but also to prevent it overheating/help cool faster.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense, more metal cut out gives more surface area to dissapate the heat. So which one do you use if any?


splish


Jul 24, 2012, 9:56 AM
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Re: [splish] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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Ok, so based on the numbers pretty much staying even all along the way. I assume that both products work equally as well and it all boils down to what each individual is used to.
So I have decided that I will purchase the petzl. It has an added cost of $6, which is I take on another paper route, I can afford easily, but it has a savings of 29 grams, and I don't have to mess around trying to sling it in order to unlock it in a hairy situation.

Thanks for the input guys and gals, children of all ages!


madrasrock


Jul 24, 2012, 10:29 AM
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Re: [splish] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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The Mad Rock Aviator is better then both of these devices.


splish


Jul 24, 2012, 10:38 AM
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Re: [madrasrock] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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madrasrock wrote:
The Mad Rock Aviator is better then both of these devices.

Now you tell me...
I just clicked the "process order" button literally 3 mintues ago!


splish


Jul 24, 2012, 10:42 AM
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Re: [splish] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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Its much heavier than both these devices, and I am not liking that spring thing. The more gadgets you add to a device, the more likely something will go wrong.


granite_grrl


Jul 24, 2012, 10:43 AM
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Re: [Kartessa] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
6 of one, half dozen of the other.

Having sold hundreds of both, I've learned that most people pick one haphazardly, learn to use it and stick with the one they're used to

It's a tube style device, there's not much difference in normal operation.

If I needed a device right now I would pick the Reverso because:
1) It's not made in China (yes, still not made in North America, but I'll take what I can get).
2) It comes in prettier colours.

Though it is $6 more at MEC, which could change my opinion when I'm actually buying. Hard to say, hard to say.


Kartessa


Jul 24, 2012, 10:49 AM
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Re: [splish] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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splish wrote:
Ok, so based on the numbers pretty much staying even all along the way. I assume that both products work equally as well and it all boils down to what each individual is used to.
So I have decided that I will purchase the petzl. It has an added cost of $6, which is I take on another paper route, I can afford easily, but it has asavings of 29 grams, and I don't have to mess around trying to sling it in order to unlock it in a hairy situation.

Thanks for the input guys and gals, children of all ages!

Good for you


splish


Jul 24, 2012, 10:53 AM
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Re: [granite_grrl] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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granite_grrl wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
6 of one, half dozen of the other.

Having sold hundreds of both, I've learned that most people pick one haphazardly, learn to use it and stick with the one they're used to

It's a tube style device, there's not much difference in normal operation.

If I needed a device right now I would pick the Reverso because:
1) It's not made in China (yes, still not made in North America, but I'll take what I can get).
2) It comes in prettier colours.

Though it is $6 more at MEC, which could change my opinion when I'm actually buying. Hard to say, hard to say.

Thanks. I actually just ordered the Reverso, the $6 is really only 3 cups of tea at timmies :), but it i 29 grams lighter, has a smaller profile, and I got the gold one. Was origionally going to get the silver, but if I put it down on the tarp or toss it in the bottom of my pack, it will stand out much better.
I grabbed a matching HMS biner. Oh and 20M of 6mm, I wanted to grab enough gear to get the free shipping :)


redlude97


Jul 24, 2012, 10:59 AM
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Re: [splish] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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You didn't say what rope size you were going to use it with, but IME the reverso doesn't work as well on fattys like 10.5 or 11mm gym ropes. The slots are noticeably thinner than my friend's atc guide I've used a handful of times.


splish


Jul 24, 2012, 11:01 AM
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Re: [splish] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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That damn MEC Wishlist, I keep ordering stuff, but the wish list keeps growing...

Oh, and today was the big launch of the BD Magnetron Biners...
Check these out, neat idea, but I think it entails a little too much fumbling around.
Watch the video, you can see how it works in full detail.

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/...ner-coming-july-2012


splish


Jul 24, 2012, 11:07 AM
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Re: [redlude97] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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redlude97 wrote:
You didn't say what rope size you were going to use it with, but IME the reverso doesn't work as well on fattys like 10.5 or 11mm gym ropes. The slots are noticeably thinner than my friend's atc guide I've used a handful of times.

Oh, I thought I mentioned that earlier. Sorry...
As of right now, I climb on a Beal Joker 9.1mm...
The next rope will be either the same, or the Sterling Ion 2 9.4mm


redlude97


Jul 24, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Re: [splish] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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sorry you did, just not in the OP, both devices work fine on skinnier ropes.


madrasrock


Jul 25, 2012, 9:00 AM
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Over the last two years I purchased and used all of the guide type belay devices.

Black Diamond and Mad Rock are the only two that have the autolock hole in the correct orientation that easily transfer from raising to lowering, with out removing the device from the rope. The advantaged the Mad Rock over Black Diamond are
Cost: $15.00 vs $30.00
The slot is larger , so the rope feeds out smother, I have used in on 12mm rescue rope and is still feeds.
With the horn you can lock off devise with out tying a knot
I like the spring, but if you do not want it just take it off


Rick


splish


Jul 25, 2012, 9:27 AM
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Re: [madrasrock] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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madrasrock wrote:
Over the last two years I purchased and used all of the guide type belay devices.

Black Diamond and Mad Rock are the only two that have the autolock hole in the correct orientation that easily transfer from raising to lowering, with out removing the device from the rope. The advantaged the Mad Rock over Black Diamond are
Cost: $15.00 vs $30.00
The slot is larger , so the rope feeds out smother, I have used in on 12mm rescue rope and is still feeds.
With the horn you can lock off devise with out tying a knot
I like the spring, but if you do not want it just take it off


Rick

Thanks Madrasrock,
I ended up ordering the Petzl. When it comes to climbing gear, price is not an issue. I prefer to have something I am comfortable with, and will do the job safely. If I am not comfortable with a piece of equipment, it may cause that hesitation that could be very dangerous.
I have never used or had much contact with Mad Rock equipment. So I value your opinion, I decided to go with what I know.
Happy climbing!


splish


Jul 26, 2012, 10:57 AM
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Re: [splish] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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So I get my package from MEC today, 20M of 6mm, great I can make my new cordlettes, one HMS Carabiner, perfect, I have a good solid biner for my Reverso, hey wait. Where is my Reverso.

Damnit! It's on back order. I have to go back to work next week, I was hoping to get out and practice on it this weekend :(


Kartessa


Jul 26, 2012, 11:20 AM
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Re: [splish] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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splish wrote:
So I get my package from MEC today, 20M of 6mm, great I can make my new cordlettes, one HMS Carabiner, perfect, I have a good solid biner for my Reverso, hey wait. Where is my Reverso.

Damnit! It's on back order. I have to go back to work next week, I was hoping to get out and practice on it this weekend :(

We do have a couple dozen in stock at the Burlington store... you could always pick one up and go climb on the escarpment.


splish


Jul 26, 2012, 11:28 AM
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Re: [Kartessa] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
splish wrote:
So I get my package from MEC today, 20M of 6mm, great I can make my new cordlettes, one HMS Carabiner, perfect, I have a good solid biner for my Reverso, hey wait. Where is my Reverso.

Damnit! It's on back order. I have to go back to work next week, I was hoping to get out and practice on it this weekend :(

We do have a couple dozen in stock at the Burlington store... you could always pick one up and go climb on the escarpment.

That would have worked. I should have just run down there and got it all, but too late now. They didn't have any at the warehouse, so they have shipped it out in a separate package from the Toronto store.

You guys don's carry the Petzl Tandem Speed over there do you? I got a petzl tandem, but it's not rated for cable.


Kartessa


Jul 26, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Re: [splish] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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splish wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
splish wrote:
So I get my package from MEC today, 20M of 6mm, great I can make my new cordlettes, one HMS Carabiner, perfect, I have a good solid biner for my Reverso, hey wait. Where is my Reverso.

Damnit! It's on back order. I have to go back to work next week, I was hoping to get out and practice on it this weekend :(

We do have a couple dozen in stock at the Burlington store... you could always pick one up and go climb on the escarpment.

That would have worked. I should have just run down there and got it all, but too late now. They didn't have any at the warehouse, so they have shipped it out in a separate package from the Toronto store.

You guys don's carry the Petzl Tandem Speed over there do you? I got a petzl tandem, but it's not rated for cable.

Logic bomb!!! : get it from the Burlington store now, and return the one you get by mail the next time you're there.

And no, MEC doesn't carry ANY cable-rated pulleys.


splish


Jul 26, 2012, 11:42 AM
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Re: [Kartessa] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
splish wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
splish wrote:
So I get my package from MEC today, 20M of 6mm, great I can make my new cordlettes, one HMS Carabiner, perfect, I have a good solid biner for my Reverso, hey wait. Where is my Reverso.

Damnit! It's on back order. I have to go back to work next week, I was hoping to get out and practice on it this weekend :(

We do have a couple dozen in stock at the Burlington store... you could always pick one up and go climb on the escarpment.

That would have worked. I should have just run down there and got it all, but too late now. They didn't have any at the warehouse, so they have shipped it out in a separate package from the Toronto store.

You guys don's carry the Petzl Tandem Speed over there do you? I got a petzl tandem, but it's not rated for cable.

Logic bomb!!! : get it from the Burlington store now, and return the one you get by mail the next time you're there.

And no, MEC doesn't carry ANY cable-rated pulleys.

Umm, the one from Toronto will be here tomorrow.
I drive a Nissan Pathfinder outfitted with an extra 400Lbs of gear, it cost me $30 in gas to run to Burlington MEC and back to get a $35 piece of gear. I will just wait till mine comes in the mail.
I usually order everything online, unless its new hiking boots, shoes, clothing stuff like that I have to try on because of my odd proportions. So I am not in the store that often. Only been inside the store maybe 15 times in the last year.
Plus the local shop is pretty good to me, and carries some of the brands I like, so I try to be loyal to them when I can.


Kartessa


Jul 26, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Re: [splish] Belay Device: Petzl Reverso 4 or Black Diamond ATC Guide? [In reply to]
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splish wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
splish wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
splish wrote:
So I get my package from MEC today, 20M of 6mm, great I can make my new cordlettes, one HMS Carabiner, perfect, I have a good solid biner for my Reverso, hey wait. Where is my Reverso.

Damnit! It's on back order. I have to go back to work next week, I was hoping to get out and practice on it this weekend :(

We do have a couple dozen in stock at the Burlington store... you could always pick one up and go climb on the escarpment.

That would have worked. I should have just run down there and got it all, but too late now. They didn't have any at the warehouse, so they have shipped it out in a separate package from the Toronto store.

You guys don's carry the Petzl Tandem Speed over there do you? I got a petzl tandem, but it's not rated for cable.

Logic bomb!!! : get it from the Burlington store now, and return the one you get by mail the next time you're there.

And no, MEC doesn't carry ANY cable-rated pulleys.

Umm, the one from Toronto will be here tomorrow.
I drive a Nissan Pathfinder outfitted with an extra 400Lbs of gear, it cost me $30 in gas to run to Burlington MEC and back to get a $35 piece of gear. I will just wait till mine comes in the mail.
I usually order everything online, unless its new hiking boots, shoes, clothing stuff like that I have to try on because of my odd proportions. So I am not in the store that often. Only been inside the store maybe 15 times in the last year.
Plus the local shop is pretty good to me, and carries some of the brands I like, so I try to be loyal to them when I can.



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