|
|
|
|
dantheham
Jul 23, 2012, 1:21 AM
Post #1 of 19
(9604 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2012
Posts: 6
|
I'm asking for tips as i'm a noob and ran into a hairy situation.
I just got back a few hours from a very nice neck of the woods called Meldon in Devon. there's a reservoir with a dam, a big lake with a rope swing, cliff jumping spots, a quarry, and a viaduct standing 100 feet tall.
so i took some climbing gear with me and set up a rig upon the viaduct (images of it can be found googling meldon viaduct).
the attached image shows my rig, very crudely drawn but it's detailed.
so I spent two whole hours rigging it up with a friend. I rigged it so that the main dynamic rope had a bowline knot 1m lower down than the bowline on the static safety rope so when the dynamic stretced it would almost match the length of the safety rope, i found this to be not enough.
I anchored in both lines onto a girder with figure 8 knots but couldn't get the knot to look anything like the first few googled instructions, it seamed to be backward or something, despite being very strong :s, so i backed it up with double blakes hitches on either end of a split tail to create an outer loop around the figure 8.
anyone know any good figure 8 instructions?
Once rigged i took the two ropes to the nearest "leg" of the bridge clipped into the bowlines and attached the trailing end of the main dynamic line to the bridge (case my friend could pull me backup).
Then i took the jump, it was bloody awesome i havn't felt a rush like that in ages, I would recommend it to anyone in the southwest.
when i came to a standstill i got stuck and couldn't move anywhere, i made one big error which was that i had tied a blakes hitch on the main line to ascend with but without any slack on the mainline below it so i couldn't create a loop to stand in to shift the blakes hitch upwards.
I was stuck in the air for 40 minutes trying to work out a solution, i had lost the feeling in my legs, couldn't grip with my hands and nearly passed out from the cut off circulation from the harness. my mate tried but couldn't pull me up with the trailing end upon the bridge either. eventually i managed to unclip from the safety which was now weight bearing and descended on the blakes hitch but ran into a knot in the line :( which wedged under the blakes' silly me! so spent another 20 mins trying to use my hands with no grip at all.
embarrassing and pretty stressful!
Sorry for the essay, here are my questions:
anyone know of good full body harnesses that spread out the pressure to relieve circulation problems and that are designed to take repeated falls?
What could i anchor the ropes into that would take the errosion from steal girders instead of the ropes taking it? (Steel wire?anything with premade loops?)
what method is best to ascend up a single rope once you are at the bottom?
how could i have gotten back up to the top in the quickest way?
all the gear i currently have is:
5 carabiners
45m dynamic arborist rope
30m fairly static rope
2x 1.8m split tails
2 x harnesses
4x loop bands approx 40cm half circumference (don't have a clue what these are for)
throwline and throwbag
Any tips on anything rope swing related would be really kind too.
Thank you
Dantheman
|
|
Attachments:
|
meldon reservoir.jpg
(150 KB)
|
|
|
|
|
ninepointeight
Jul 23, 2012, 2:01 AM
Post #2 of 19
(9586 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 14, 2012
Posts: 102
|
dantheham wrote: I'm asking for tips as i'm a noob and ran into a hairy situation. I just got back a few hours from a very nice neck of the woods called Meldon in Devon. there's a reservoir with a dam, a big lake with a rope swing, cliff jumping spots, a quarry, and a viaduct standing 100 feet tall. so i took some climbing gear with me and set up a rig upon the viaduct (images of it can be found googling meldon viaduct). the attached image shows my rig, very crudely drawn but it's detailed. so I spent two whole hours rigging it up with a friend. I rigged it so that the main dynamic rope had a bowline knot 1m lower down than the bowline on the static safety rope so when the dynamic stretced it would almost match the length of the safety rope, i found this to be not enough. I anchored in both lines onto a girder with figure 8 knots but couldn't get the knot to look anything like the first few googled instructions, it seamed to be backward or something, despite being very strong :s, so i backed it up with double blakes hitches on either end of a split tail to create an outer loop around the figure 8. anyone know any good figure 8 instructions? Once rigged i took the two ropes to the nearest "leg" of the bridge clipped into the bowlines and attached the trailing end of the main dynamic line to the bridge (case my friend could pull me backup). Then i took the jump, it was bloody awesome i havn't felt a rush like that in ages, I would recommend it to anyone in the southwest. when i came to a standstill i got stuck and couldn't move anywhere, i made one big error which was that i had tied a blakes hitch on the main line to ascend with but without any slack on the mainline below it so i couldn't create a loop to stand in to shift the blakes hitch upwards. I was stuck in the air for 40 minutes trying to work out a solution, i had lost the feeling in my legs, couldn't grip with my hands and nearly passed out from the cut off circulation from the harness. my mate tried but couldn't pull me up with the trailing end upon the bridge either. eventually i managed to unclip from the safety which was now weight bearing and descended on the blakes hitch but ran into a knot in the line :( which wedged under the blakes' silly me! so spent another 20 mins trying to use my hands with no grip at all. embarrassing and pretty stressful! Sorry for the essay, here are my questions: anyone know of good full body harnesses that spread out the pressure to relieve circulation problems and that are designed to take repeated falls? What could i anchor the ropes into that would take the errosion from steal girders instead of the ropes taking it? (Steel wire?anything with premade loops?) what method is best to ascend up a single rope once you are at the bottom? how could i have gotten back up to the top in the quickest way? all the gear i currently have is: 5 carabiners 45m dynamic arborist rope 30m fairly static rope 2x 1.8m split tails 2 x harnesses 4x loop bands approx 40cm half circumference (don't have a clue what these are for) throwline and throwbag Any tips on anything rope swing related would be really kind too. Thank you Dantheman
Arborists....
|
|
|
|
|
Kartessa
Jul 23, 2012, 2:37 PM
Post #3 of 19
(9519 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 18, 2008
Posts: 7362
|
I'm pretty sure youre going to die...
|
|
|
|
|
kobaz
Jul 23, 2012, 4:22 PM
Post #4 of 19
(9479 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 19, 2004
Posts: 726
|
First of all... yer gonna die.
Second of all.
Why are you jumping onto a 30m static rope and a 45m dynamic? Are you trying to split your back in half? The 30m is obviously going to catch first.
|
|
|
|
|
dantheham
Jul 23, 2012, 9:13 PM
Post #5 of 19
(9440 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2012
Posts: 6
|
haha "yer gonna die"
I had a pretty safe set up with essentially two backup lines. the harness was the only thing that didn't have a fail safe, that's why i'm in the market for a full body one.
Nah the 30m static didn't catch first cus of where I tied the bowlines I said i had tied the dynamic bowline a few metres higher than the bowline on the static so that when falling even with the dynamic stretch it wouldn't exceed the length of the static
yeah I wouldn't like to break my back i've already broken 2 vertebrae on separate ocassions. they do say "everything comes in threes" tho.
|
|
|
|
|
drector
Jul 23, 2012, 9:40 PM
Post #6 of 19
(9429 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 1037
|
dantheham wrote: yeah I wouldn't like to break my back i've already broken 2 vertebrae on separate ocassions. they do say "everything comes in threes" tho.
It sure sounds like the third time is coming. How did you figure out that the dynamic rope would slow you down enough so that the static rope didn't break you in half? A guess or math and knowledge?
In reply to: I anchored in both lines onto a girder with figure 8 knots but couldn't get the knot to look anything like the first few googled instructions
You cannot tie a figure 8 knot properly and you think that the rest of your rigging is safe? Those pictures and instructions are pretty clear. I'll add my vote for "yer gonna die".
Dave
|
|
|
|
|
dantheham
Jul 23, 2012, 10:31 PM
Post #7 of 19
(9416 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2012
Posts: 6
|
I wasn't free falling for a great deal of time and having done a rope swing 2 days before I observed the stretch. It was fine.
I know the setup was far from ideal but it was good enough there's a few things i would change but i'm happy with it.
my mainline figure 8 was backed up with 2 blakes hitches.
just discovered i had tied it right it was just the site i got the instructions from was wrong.
have a look http://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/figure-eight/
if you follow there instructions then you get a figure 8 but what they show in there figure 3 isn't a normal figure 8, well it is but the image has been flipped horizontally i just flipped it back in paint. so i had though i had got it wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
jdensign5
Jul 23, 2012, 11:27 PM
Post #8 of 19
(9404 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 31, 2012
Posts: 38
|
I don't get it. Looks like a figure 8 follow through to me, no matter which way the picture is, it is still a figure 8. Scary that you don't even know your knots and you are doing this. Does the fact you have broken your back twice give you any clues?
|
|
|
|
|
herites
Jul 24, 2012, 12:00 AM
Post #9 of 19
(9395 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 10, 2011
Posts: 210
|
I think what you are doing is totally safe and acceptable, keep up the good work and have some fun (I'd ditch the dynamic rope though, not needed for the results you want)
|
|
|
|
|
dantheham
Jul 24, 2012, 11:39 AM
Post #10 of 19
(9359 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2012
Posts: 6
|
Honestly tie a figure 8 yourself hold it up to this picture, it's been reversed from the way they show you how to do it. which for someone who hasn't tied the knot in the last 4 years is pretty confusing. hold your figure 8 upto any other pics on the web and it's bound to match.
I did know my knots. when I was tieing it i told my mate up there that I had got it right it just looked reversed, so i doubted myself. if you think that end picture shows a figure of 8 by the method they show you must be blind. cus which ever way you flip your knot it won't match that.
what do you rely upon for safety when climbing that is equally safe?
my setup would of required 3 of the correctly tied knots on the bridge or on my harness to have failed in turn plus one on the other end..
or my harness to have broken both in the waist strap and leg loops
or for three lines to have snapped.
no it doesn't give me any clues at all, i was joking when i said everything comes in threes are you really that superstitious. thank you for subtly calling me an idiot though.
do you think everyone should give up climbing when they have an injury which is heal able?
if you've had an injury any time in your life that means you will die soon!
breaking my vertebrae was two very unrelated accidents one on a trampoline and one falling off a wall which was 6 foot high.
All i'm asking for was some advice cus i don't have a wide knowledge base on knots or on kit but what I have and use i know well enough to trust my life upon.
I thought this place was for advice, i didn't expect belittlement and cynicism from every comment.
anyone have any constructive advice?
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 24, 2012, 12:32 PM
Post #11 of 19
(9348 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
Edit: Okay, that wasn't helpful.
I actually want you to not die so I will try to help.
Zeroithly I am going to tell you that you need to learn more about this kind of thing before you can safely jump off bridges. It would really, really suck if something went wrong.
Firstly, don't clip into the rope. Tie into the rope. The biners add in an unwanted risk of crossload etc.
Secondly, leave the static rope at hope. It really isn't welcome. Use 2 dynamic ropes or a doubled up dynamic rope.
You will want to use either prussicks or, for a quicker climb, ascenders/ascender+grigri to climb the rope back out. Practice ascending near the ground (rope tied to a tree branch or over a small cliff or something) until you are comfortable doing it. Carry at least one spare prussic, and have you buddy know how to set up a haul in case something goes wrong and he needs to get you out.
Really the ideal situation would be to meet up with someone who knew what they were doing, but if that fails at least try to learn more about knots, self rescue, partner rescue and the like.
Please don't death yourselves :(
Second edit. Here is Luna in socks to show you that we aren't all meanies and we are just worried about a noob doing something so serious.
(This post was edited by sungam on Jul 24, 2012, 2:53 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
dantheham
Jul 25, 2012, 3:09 PM
Post #13 of 19
(9232 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2012
Posts: 6
|
Zeroithly Thank you for the comment that was much more helpful.
secondly
I don't know what a a Luna is but it looks friendly, I want one,
are they house trained?
and do they talk?
thirdly
I'm hear to learn that's why I'm asking questions
fourthly!?
the tip on tying into the harness is a goodun, i don't trust caribiners like i trust rope as i am aware when they go they just go, with rope you can see if it's in good ware.
would a bowline be sufficient for such purposes?
i don't have a second dynamic but i think i will double it up. if i have the same anchors on both ends with two bowlines attaching the middle to my harness does that sound good?
it would mean the stretch would be taken by both (halving the force) which mean the chances of the rope staying dynamic in the future are higher right?
Anchorage (i'm not familiar with climbing terms, but i mean where you tie to the bridge)
how should i anchor?
i was suggested making a loop out of this static mammut 11mm 4.2m long and tieing together with two fishermans which would lay against each other but reading online people are saying that fishermans are not the strongest knot to use.
what should i use baring in mind i want to reduce wearage on my rope? should i just tie it in and sling a carpet under? i am guessing i need to avoid the knots from pressing against the beam whilst loaded?
ascending or descending?
i don't like the idea of mechanical ascenders and don't grigris damage the rope?
prussics over blakes hitch?
are prussics easier and faster to move along the rope?
I'm confident with blakes hitch and i've never climbed with out them. if you dress them properly they have a lot of strength and only get tougher when loaded with body weight.
sorry that's a lot of questions
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 25, 2012, 4:35 PM
Post #15 of 19
(9211 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
dantheham wrote: I don't know what a a Luna is but it looks friendly, I want one, are they house trained? and do they talk?
Out of contect link is best link. Also unrelated.
dantheham wrote: would a bowline be sufficient for such purposes?
dantheham wrote: i don't have a second dynamic but i think i will double it up. if i have the same anchors on both ends with two bowlines attaching the middle to my harness does that sound good? it would mean the stretch would be taken by both (halving the force) which mean the chances of the rope staying dynamic in the future are higher right?
dantheham wrote: Anchorage (i'm not familiar with climbing terms, but i mean where you tie to the bridge) how should i anchor? i was suggested making a loop out of this static mammut 11mm 4.2m long and tieing together with two fishermans which would lay against each other but reading online people are saying that fishermans are not the strongest knot to use. what should i use baring in mind i want to reduce wearage on my rope? should i just tie it in and sling a carpet under? i am guessing i need to avoid the knots from pressing against the beam whilst loaded?
Hmmm. Well ideally you would have more then one loop tied around the girder. 3 would be great.
I would use a fig. 9 or even a fig. 10 (easier to untie then the 9 but at this point retracing the knot for tying in become stupid, though on bite is still easy) on bite on the jump line to clip all your anchor loops to. Make sure they are all being loaded equally if possible.
A piece of carpet would work fine for protecting from wear.
I use a triple fishermans to tie cord/short lengths of rope into loops.
dantheham wrote: ascending or descending? i don't like the idea of mechanical ascenders and don't grigris damage the rope? prussics over blakes hitch? are prussics easier and faster to move along the rope?
To avoid taking my opinions too seriously please picture this at my keyboard whenever I post.
|
|
|
|
|
dantheham
Jul 25, 2012, 11:05 PM
Post #16 of 19
(9132 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2012
Posts: 6
|
there wasn't any constructive comments on anything I asked I was just being told i didn't know what I was doing properly.
If I knew everything I wouldn't be asking questions.
I never said i was jumping on a static rope, that was for backup line which only became weight bearing when I had been at the bottom for a long amount of time. I knew that the static wouldn't be weight bearing during the fall as I was only falling a few meters before reaching the circumference of the swing and I know the stretch in the rope as i've been using it with my full weight on it a hell of a lot.
yeah sure for a big jump I certainly wouldn't go near the static
the reason I got stuck to start with was for not shifting the blakes hitch up before I jumped which is an easy mistake to make. in hindsight there where many ways off the rope from where I was it just took me a while to work one out as i'm not too experienced.
I will listen to facts or advice but not judgements from people who have ignored stated facts.
I took two hours rigging it all up it was planned well bar one bloody silly mistake. It's nothing to do with skill as there is none involved it's not a "in over your head" situation. so now I know where I went wrong i won't do it again.
|
|
|
|
|
rocknice2
Jul 26, 2012, 12:31 AM
Post #17 of 19
(9114 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 1221
|
!!!!! TROLL !!!!!!!!
And a whole lot of shark bites
|
|
|
|
|
marc801
Jul 26, 2012, 12:47 AM
Post #18 of 19
(9109 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806
|
rocknice2 wrote: !!!!! TROLL !!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 26, 2012, 7:10 AM
Post #19 of 19
(9054 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
rocknice2 wrote: !!!!! TROLL !!!!!!!! And a whole lot of shark bites
|
|
|
|
|
|
