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pinktricam
Aug 6, 2012, 4:24 PM
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August 6, 1945.
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veganclimber
Aug 6, 2012, 5:55 PM
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Why am I not surprised that you are celebrating this?
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DougMartin
Aug 6, 2012, 6:01 PM
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pinktricam wrote: [img]http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/c0.0.632.408/217955_10151143732215465_1558135770_n.jpg[/img] August 6, 1945.
+1
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pinktricam
Aug 6, 2012, 7:02 PM
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veganclimber wrote: Why am I not surprised that you are celebrating this?
I had the honor of meeting and shaking the hand of Gen. Paul Tibbets at an airshow several years back. He was a very nice gentleman. It's too bad he caught so much undeserved flack from the ignorant.
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veganclimber
Aug 6, 2012, 9:22 PM
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pinktricam wrote: veganclimber wrote: Why am I not surprised that you are celebrating this? I had the honor of meeting and shaking the hand of Gen. Paul Tibbets at an airshow several years back. He was a very nice gentleman. It's too bad he caught so much undeserved flack from the ignorant.
I don't know what that has to do with anything. It may have been the right thing to do, but this
is nothing to be happy about.
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pinktricam
Aug 6, 2012, 9:40 PM
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veganclimber wrote: pinktricam wrote: veganclimber wrote: Why am I not surprised that you are celebrating this? I had the honor of meeting and shaking the hand of Gen. Paul Tibbets at an airshow several years back. He was a very nice gentleman. It's too bad he caught so much undeserved flack from the ignorant. I don't know what that has to do with anything. It may have been the right thing to do, but this [Inline "220px-AtomicEffects-Hiroshima.jpg"] is nothing to be happy about.
Right, except for the millions of allied lives saved and the generations of Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, etc that even came into existence as a consequence of Japan's early surrender.
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veganclimber
Aug 6, 2012, 9:53 PM
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pinktricam wrote: veganclimber wrote: pinktricam wrote: veganclimber wrote: Why am I not surprised that you are celebrating this? I had the honor of meeting and shaking the hand of Gen. Paul Tibbets at an airshow several years back. He was a very nice gentleman. It's too bad he caught so much undeserved flack from the ignorant. I don't know what that has to do with anything. It may have been the right thing to do, but this [Inline "220px-AtomicEffects-Hiroshima.jpg"] is nothing to be happy about. Right, except for the millions of allied lives saved and the generations of Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, etc that even came into existence as a consequence of Japan's early surrender.
At a cost of 200,000+ innocent lives and the destruction of two cities. Tell you what, you celebrate August 6, I'll celebrate September 2.
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rrrADAM
Aug 7, 2012, 4:05 AM
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Sometimes you are more of an enigma than Enigma herself, Eric.
RUSH wrote: Imagine a time when it all began In the dying days of a war A weapon that would settle the score Whoever found it first Would be sure to do their worst They always had before... Imagine a man where it all began A scientist pacing the floor In each nation always eager to explore To build the best big stick To turn the winning trick But this was something more... The big bang took and shook the world Shot down the rising sun The end was begun it would hit everyone When the chain reaction was done The big shots try to hold it back Fools try to wish it away The hopeful depend on a world without end Whatever the hopeless may say Imagine a place where it all began Gathered from across the land To work in the secrecy of the desert sand All of the brightest boys To play with the biggest toys More than they bargained for... The big bang took and shook the world Shot down the rising sun The hopeful depend on a world without end Whatever the hopeless may say Imagine a man when it all began The pilot of "Enola Gay" Flying out of the shockwave on that August day All the powers that be, and the course of history Would be changed for evermore... The big bang took and shook the world Shot down the rising sun The end was begun it would hit everyone When the chain reaction was done The big shots try to hold it back Fools try to wish it away The hopeful depend on a world without end Whatever the hopeless may say The big bang took and shook the world Shot down the rising sun The hopeful depend on a world without end Whatever the hopeless may say
(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Aug 7, 2012, 4:23 AM)
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pinktricam
Aug 7, 2012, 4:23 AM
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Nah, I just have a better perspective than 99.9% of the people here.
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pinktricam
Aug 7, 2012, 5:10 AM
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You're really gonna hate it the day I finally get to say "I told you so."
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ubu
Aug 7, 2012, 5:20 AM
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pinktricam wrote: veganclimber wrote: pinktricam wrote: veganclimber wrote: Why am I not surprised that you are celebrating this? I had the honor of meeting and shaking the hand of Gen. Paul Tibbets at an airshow several years back. He was a very nice gentleman. It's too bad he caught so much undeserved flack from the ignorant. I don't know what that has to do with anything. It may have been the right thing to do, but this [Inline "220px-AtomicEffects-Hiroshima.jpg"] is nothing to be happy about. Right, except for the millions of allied lives saved and the generations of Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, etc that even came into existence as a consequence of Japan's early surrender.
"Millions of Allied lives"? No. The official estimate provided to Truman was only 40,000 (although Truman claimed half a million in his memoir...wonder why he would do that). Both Eisenhower and MacArthur told Truman the bombings were completely unnecessary, and that Japan was on the brink of conditional surrender (Truman was only willing to discuss unconditional surrender, at least publicly). Using the Bomb was most likely all about trying out our new toy, and showing off to the Soviets. This stuff has been documented to death, you may want to do a bit more reading and challenge your preconceived ideas about what really took place.
Regardless of any of this, celebrating the bombing of civilian targets is just fucking sick.
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pinktricam
Aug 7, 2012, 5:33 AM
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Really? Throw in the lives of the Japanese that were saved and their successive generations born.
Basically, the bombing achieved a much earlier, less bloody end to a savage war in the Pacific.
Bottom line: it worked. I'm willing to celebrate that.
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ubu
Aug 7, 2012, 5:45 AM
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pinktricam wrote: Really? Throw in the lives of the Japanese that were saved and their successive generations born. Basically, the bombing achieved a much earlier, less bloody end to a savage war in the Pacific. Bottom line: it worked. I'm willing to celebrate that.
Face, meet palm.
Truman's own administration basically agreed that the Japanese were willing to negotiate a surrender before the bombs were dropped. The Soviets were about the enter the Pacific conflict and we wanted to show off our bombs before it was too late. A quarter million *civilians* dead, and for what? Happy fucking anniversary.
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pinktricam
Aug 7, 2012, 5:55 AM
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Nothing but an unconditional surrender was going to be accepted.
The Japanese Code of Honor would never have allowed them to surrender.
You can revise it all you want, but the bottom line is still the bottom line: the bombs worked.
Happy belated anniversary.
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ubu
Aug 7, 2012, 6:19 AM
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pinktricam wrote: Nothing but an unconditional surrender was going to be accepted. The Japanese Code of Honor would never have allowed them to surrender. You can revise it all you want, but the bottom line is still the bottom line: the bombs worked. Happy belated anniversary.
The Japanese Code of Honor...heh....you've been reading too much James Clavell.
The Japanese approached the US multiple times (at least 5) to discuss surrender. Google "trohan memorandum". According to MacArthur the Japanese were asking for surrender terms identical to the ones they were ultimately given.
Happy anniversary indeed.
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rrrADAM
Aug 7, 2012, 6:45 AM
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pinktricam wrote: You're really gonna hate it the day I finally get to say "I told you so."
This is what I mean about being detached from reality... Think about what you said above, and consider how, in any way, that could actually be true.
But, since you CONFIDENTLY believe that will happen, PLEASE, describe how you actualy think that would play out.
E.g., You up in Heaven... Me down in Hell, but you able to "tell me 'I told you so'"... Sound realistic? To a tard, perhaps.
(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Aug 7, 2012, 6:46 AM)
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rrrADAM
Aug 7, 2012, 6:50 AM
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ubu... Pinkie prefers a 'revisionism/negationism' history. Facts be damned, especially if it doesn't jive with his preferred world view.
Delusion and denial are the great enablers of the simple minded.
(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Aug 7, 2012, 6:53 AM)
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pinktricam
Aug 7, 2012, 6:52 AM
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Silly, nobody will have to even be with you when you realize it....it will be the most costly "OOPS!" moment in your existence.
(This post was edited by pinktricam on Aug 7, 2012, 6:54 AM)
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pinktricam
Aug 7, 2012, 7:11 AM
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ubu wrote: pinktricam wrote: Nothing but an unconditional surrender was going to be accepted. The Japanese Code of Honor would never have allowed them to surrender. You can revise it all you want, but the bottom line is still the bottom line: the bombs worked. Happy belated anniversary. The Japanese Code of Honor...heh....you've been reading too much James Clavell. The Japanese approached the US multiple times (at least 5) to discuss surrender. Google "trohan memorandum". According to MacArthur the Japanese were asking for surrender terms identical to the ones they were ultimately given. Happy anniversary indeed.
Frankly, I've yet to meet a WWII Pacific War veteran (and I've met plenty) that held MacArthur in any semblance of high regard.
(This post was edited by pinktricam on Aug 7, 2012, 7:15 AM)
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carabiner96
Aug 7, 2012, 7:20 AM
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pinktricam wrote: ubu wrote: pinktricam wrote: Nothing but an unconditional surrender was going to be accepted. The Japanese Code of Honor would never have allowed them to surrender. You can revise it all you want, but the bottom line is still the bottom line: the bombs worked. Happy belated anniversary. The Japanese Code of Honor...heh....you've been reading too much James Clavell. The Japanese approached the US multiple times (at least 5) to discuss surrender. Google "trohan memorandum". According to MacArthur the Japanese were asking for surrender terms identical to the ones they were ultimately given. Happy anniversary indeed. Frankly, I've yet to meet a WWII Pacific War veteran (and I've met plenty) that held MacArthur in any semblance of high regard.
Again with that "I've" 'evidence'.
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rrrADAM
Aug 7, 2012, 7:22 AM
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pinktricam wrote: ubu wrote: pinktricam wrote: Nothing but an unconditional surrender was going to be accepted. The Japanese Code of Honor would never have allowed them to surrender. You can revise it all you want, but the bottom line is still the bottom line: the bombs worked. Happy belated anniversary. The Japanese Code of Honor...heh....you've been reading too much James Clavell. The Japanese approached the US multiple times (at least 5) to discuss surrender. Google "trohan memorandum". According to MacArthur the Japanese were asking for surrender terms identical to the ones they were ultimately given. Happy anniversary indeed. Frankly, I've yet to meet a WWII Pacific War veteran (and I've met plenty) that held MacArthur in any semblance of high regard.
Ummm... What does that have to do with the facts or the argument being made? Do you think the Japanese should have approched Admiral Halsey instead? No, wait... Private Ryan?
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rrrADAM
Aug 7, 2012, 7:28 AM
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pinktricam wrote: ubu wrote: pinktricam wrote: Nothing but an unconditional surrender was going to be accepted. The Japanese Code of Honor would never have allowed them to surrender. You can revise it all you want, but the bottom line is still the bottom line: the bombs worked. Happy belated anniversary. The Japanese Code of Honor...heh....you've been reading too much James Clavell. The Japanese approached the US multiple times (at least 5) to discuss surrender. Google "trohan memorandum". According to MacArthur the Japanese were asking for surrender terms identical to the ones they were ultimately given. Happy anniversary indeed. Frankly, I've yet to meet a WWII Pacific War veteran (and I've met plenty) that held MacArthur in any semblance of high regard.
Let me show you how broken your argument is here another way, Eric:
Frankly, I've yet to meet a WWII Pacific War veteran member of the site (and I've met plenty) that held MacArthur hold YOU in any semblance of high regard.
Now... According to the logic you are trying to use, what does that say about YOU and your statements?
(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Aug 7, 2012, 7:29 AM)
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saint_john
Aug 7, 2012, 10:13 AM
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pinktricam wrote: veganclimber wrote: pinktricam wrote: veganclimber wrote: Why am I not surprised that you are celebrating this? I had the honor of meeting and shaking the hand of Gen. Paul Tibbets at an airshow several years back. He was a very nice gentleman. It's too bad he caught so much undeserved flack from the ignorant. I don't know what that has to do with anything. It may have been the right thing to do, but this [Inline "220px-AtomicEffects-Hiroshima.jpg"] is nothing to be happy about. Right, except for the millions of allied lives saved and the generations of Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, etc that even came into existence as a consequence of Japan's early surrender.
So Pinktricam you're saying it was worth killing hundereds of thousands of innocent Japanese civilians in order to save "millions" of Allieds, incuding unborn future generations?
Is it because the Japanese look different from you, speak a different language than you, and worship a different god that you've deemed them to be less vaulable than Caucasions ("Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders")?
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