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cpowers15
Aug 14, 2012, 9:05 PM
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I tried some searching but over 715 pages of posts came up when I searched webbing and top rope anchoring so I apologize if this has already been addressed. I recently purchased a rope for some indoor sport climbing but am starting to look outdoors now since I have the rope.
I am trying to figure out how to best connect webbing to the top rope anchors to hang down over the ledge to be able to top rope. To go along with the safety/redundancy I picked up a couple 8' lengths of webbing. Does anyone have any recommendations on how to tie into the anchor?
What I've thought of (and tied the webbing up to see how it would hold) was the Alpine Butterfly Loop to bring the webbing together to have a loop so I can connect to the anchor via a Carabiner for quick setting and tearing down. Any thoughts on if this is a reasonable knot for setting? I appreciate any feedback! Thank you!
(This post was edited by cpowers15 on Aug 14, 2012, 9:06 PM)
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potreroed
Aug 14, 2012, 9:23 PM
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Figure 8 on a bight and locking carabiners. Notice I said carabiners, plural.
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cpowers15
Aug 14, 2012, 9:42 PM
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Gotcha. I've got 2 for the rope to go thru facing opposite directions and I suppose it makes sense to do the same for the anchor. Thank you for the insight!
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marc801
Aug 14, 2012, 9:43 PM
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cpowers15 wrote: I tried some searching but over 715 pages of posts came up when I searched webbing and top rope anchoring so I apologize if this has already been addressed. I recently purchased a rope for some indoor sport climbing but am starting to look outdoors now since I have the rope. I am trying to figure out how to best connect webbing to the top rope anchors to hang down over the ledge to be able to top rope. To go along with the safety/redundancy I picked up a couple 8' lengths of webbing. Does anyone have any recommendations on how to tie into the anchor? What I've thought of (and tied the webbing up to see how it would hold) was the Alpine Butterfly Loop to bring the webbing together to have a loop so I can connect to the anchor via a Carabiner for quick setting and tearing down. Any thoughts on if this is a reasonable knot for setting? I appreciate any feedback! Thank you!
If you're asking this basic a question on the net, you need to:
1. Buy, read, and understand the Rock Climbing Anchors book by John Long.
2. Get personalized, live, face-to-face instruction.
Seriously. You're asking a very basic and generalized question, not specific clarification, which suggests a low level of beginner knowledge. You don't even mention what kind of anchor you're dealing with or its configuration. Chances are any answer to your question* would immediately trigger a number of follow up questions - the net is not the best delivery mechanism for this kind of knowledge.
*: by the way, your method would work, but there are far simpler approaches. In 40 yrs of climbing I've never once used an alpine butterfly in actual climbing.
You're not realizing the need for judgement in every specific situation, which may vastly alter the appropriate answer. For example, these are all reasonable yet very different anchors, except for one that is grossly wrong:
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cpowers15
Aug 14, 2012, 10:08 PM
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I'll post some pics when I get home. And I am absolutely a beginner as to why I am inquiring about this.
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csiebsen
Aug 14, 2012, 10:12 PM
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I think that last sling needs a knot in it, other than that the smiling lady by that questionable tree would worry me.
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marc801
Aug 14, 2012, 10:19 PM
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cpowers15 wrote: I'll post some pics when I get home. And I am absolutely a beginner as to why I am inquiring about this.
Also, the mods might consider moving this to the beginner's forum, arguably a better location.
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drector
Aug 14, 2012, 10:35 PM
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How did the sewn slings get through the bolt hangers in that ADT picture? I think there is something going on there that I can't see.
Dave
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marc801
Aug 14, 2012, 10:47 PM
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drector wrote: How did the sewn slings get through the bolt hangers in that ADT picture? I think there is something going on there that I can't see.
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surfstar
Aug 14, 2012, 11:11 PM
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marc801 wrote: drector wrote: How did the sewn slings get through the bolt hangers in that ADT picture? I think there is something going on there that I can't see. I had the same thought....I think there's a knot of some kind down by the biner.
Likely the ends of the slings are clipped.
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snowfall
Aug 14, 2012, 11:39 PM
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marc801 should really give the punch line: Pic 6=bad.
why?
1) slings can be get cut under load on the sharp edges of bolt hangers.
2) the sling pictured, as configured, is non-redundant. a slice through any part of the sling will compromise the entire anchor.
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rocknice2
Aug 14, 2012, 11:43 PM
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surfstar wrote: marc801 wrote: drector wrote: How did the sewn slings get through the bolt hangers in that ADT picture? I think there is something going on there that I can't see. I had the same thought....I think there's a knot of some kind down by the biner. Likely the ends of the slings are clipped.
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rocknice2
Aug 14, 2012, 11:44 PM
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snowfall wrote: marc801 should really give the punch line: Pic 6=bad. why? 1) slings can be get cut under load on the sharp edges of bolt hangers. 2) the sling pictured, as configured, is non-redundant. a slice through any part of the sling will compromise the entire anchor.
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patto
Aug 15, 2012, 12:34 AM
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csiebsen wrote: I think that last sling needs a knot in it, other than that the smiling lady by that questionable tree would worry me.
That tree would more likely than not be stronger than a couple of bolts. Unless it is dead or the earth disturbed then I wouldn't worry about it.
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wonderwoman
Aug 15, 2012, 12:44 AM
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Moved from Gear Heads to Beginners by WW.
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cpowers15
Aug 15, 2012, 1:00 AM
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Thank you everyone, and again, I apologize for my lack of experience. But here is the anchor I'll be tying into:
And here is the webbing with the carabiners (lacking one):
And I think some of these other knots will be much better, as said in the previous posts. I also see now how much space in the webbing I waste tying it this way
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snowfall
Aug 15, 2012, 1:01 AM
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patto wrote: csiebsen wrote: I think that last sling needs a knot in it, other than that the smiling lady by that questionable tree would worry me. Unless it is dead or the earth disturbed then I wouldn't worry about it.
Dude, that tree is bomber. But I'd tie into the girl also, just to be safe.
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patto
Aug 15, 2012, 1:45 AM
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snowfall wrote: patto wrote: csiebsen wrote: I think that last sling needs a knot in it, other than that the smiling lady by that questionable tree would worry me. Unless it is dead or the earth disturbed then I wouldn't worry about it. Dude, that tree is bomber.
Isn't that what I just said? 
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snowfall
Aug 15, 2012, 12:41 PM
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patto wrote: snowfall wrote: patto wrote: csiebsen wrote: I think that last sling needs a knot in it, other than that the smiling lady by that questionable tree would worry me. Unless it is dead or the earth disturbed then I wouldn't worry about it. Dude, that tree is bomber. Isn't that what I just said?
You didn't mention tying into the girl. One should always tie into a girl, if one is available 
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csiebsen
Aug 15, 2012, 1:32 PM
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patto wrote: csiebsen wrote: I think that last sling needs a knot in it, other than that the smiling lady by that questionable tree would worry me. Unless it is dead or the earth disturbed then I wouldn't worry about it.
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ninepointeight
Aug 15, 2012, 2:28 PM
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csiebsen wrote: patto wrote: csiebsen wrote: I think that last sling needs a knot in it, other than that the smiling lady by that questionable tree would worry me. Unless it is dead or the earth disturbed then I wouldn't worry about it. Interesting. The tree might be totally fine but my "anchor sensors" are still buzzing. I don't like that both anchors are on the same tree, if there's something up with the roots the whole thing would go. Also, as a rule I set up with 3 anchors, call me paranoid but that's how I learned to set up and am most comfortable with it. For this setup I'd add a third anchor into or around the rock somewhere. JMHO.
You're anchor sensors need serious recalibration if you think the final pic is a solid anchor and tree isn't.
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csiebsen
Aug 15, 2012, 2:39 PM
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ninepointeight wrote: csiebsen wrote: patto wrote: csiebsen wrote: I think that last sling needs a knot in it, other than that the smiling lady by that questionable tree would worry me. Unless it is dead or the earth disturbed then I wouldn't worry about it. Interesting. The tree might be totally fine but my "anchor sensors" are still buzzing. I don't like that both anchors are on the same tree, if there's something up with the roots the whole thing would go. Also, as a rule I set up with 3 anchors, call me paranoid but that's how I learned to set up and am most comfortable with it. For this setup I'd add a third anchor into or around the rock somewhere. JMHO. You're anchor sensors need serious recalibration if you think the final pic is a solid anchor and tree isn't.
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ninepointeight
Aug 15, 2012, 2:47 PM
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csiebsen wrote: ninepointeight wrote: csiebsen wrote: patto wrote: csiebsen wrote: I think that last sling needs a knot in it, other than that the smiling lady by that questionable tree would worry me. Unless it is dead or the earth disturbed then I wouldn't worry about it. Interesting. The tree might be totally fine but my "anchor sensors" are still buzzing. I don't like that both anchors are on the same tree, if there's something up with the roots the whole thing would go. Also, as a rule I set up with 3 anchors, call me paranoid but that's how I learned to set up and am most comfortable with it. For this setup I'd add a third anchor into or around the rock somewhere. JMHO. You're anchor sensors need serious recalibration if you think the final pic is a solid anchor and tree isn't. For the record, I wouldn't have climbed on the sling either.
You posted that the "last sling needs a knot". There are two gigantic problems with the final photo, and a knot isn't one of them.
Firstly, the two slings are in American Death Triangle which multiplies the force on the bolts. If that were the only issue, it would still be safe for TR, but a much better anchor could be constructed with the same materials plus one carabiner.
The second and far more serious issue is that the slings are threaded directly through the bolt hangers. They could easily be cut while someone is struggling and takes a few falls.
(This post was edited by ninepointeight on Aug 15, 2012, 3:00 PM)
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moose_droppings
Aug 15, 2012, 5:40 PM
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cpowers15 wrote: I don't see much waste in that since the way you've got it made up it is a redundant anchor. The overhand on a bight knots in the ends are safe to use that way (can't roll). Dress, set and leave about six inches of tail in the knot and your golden. Pad any edges if needed. They might be a little tough to untie but I've always managed to get them undone after a morning of TR soloing on them. If your route wanders you could reduce the back and forth movement by pulling the two legs together in the direction of your climb and tying another knot just above the power point.
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