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qwert


Aug 30, 2012, 7:31 AM
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Chlorine solution and slings/soft goods?
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Does anyone have an idea - or an idea how i can find out about it - how chlorine solution (used as desinfection agent) will affect slings, both short term and long term.

Google is just tring to sell me chlorine pills to disinfect my pool...

And just to give you the background why i am asking (no, i am not trying to booty some slings from the site of a climbing accident, where the rescue folks had to disinfect some wounds on the site):

Its actually for those big, bulky industrial slings (the fat, heavy, colored things with a big WLL 1000kg written on them) and it is an industrial application, but the materials should be the same, so i thought i just ask here, if anyone has an idea how to find out more.

qwert


jowybyo


Aug 30, 2012, 10:04 AM
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Nylon is very sensitive to chlorine. Polyester would be a better material to use in a chlorine environment.


amoses


Aug 30, 2012, 12:20 PM
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This was discussed in the US caving community a few years back when white nose syndrome was discovered. You may find more info on the NSS forum. If I remember correctly, PMI has published research showing that ropes can be disinfected once with chlorine without a significant impact on strength(I think it was -5%), but the damage is cumulative with repeated exposure. We now most use quaternary ammonium for decon because testing hasn't shown any impact on nylon.


USnavy


Aug 30, 2012, 12:32 PM
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qwert wrote:
Does anyone have an idea - or an idea how i can find out about it - how chlorine solution (used as desinfection agent) will affect slings, both short term and long term.

Google is just tring to sell me chlorine pills to disinfect my pool...

And just to give you the background why i am asking (no, i am not trying to booty some slings from the site of a climbing accident, where the rescue folks had to disinfect some wounds on the site):

Its actually for those big, bulky industrial slings (the fat, heavy, colored things with a big WLL 1000kg written on them) and it is an industrial application, but the materials should be the same, so i thought i just ask here, if anyone has an idea how to find out more.

qwert
I cannot comment on long-term, but for short-term, chlorine bleach does not seem to affect nylon. I tested a piece of 1" tubular soaked in Clorox brand bleach. I let the sample sit out 24 hours to dry and then I pull tested the piece. There was almost no noticeable strength loss. I think the piece failed at within 4% of what the control failed at.


According to the website below, nylon has "fair" resistance to chlorine water.

http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance


(This post was edited by USnavy on Aug 30, 2012, 12:35 PM)


sbaclimber


Aug 30, 2012, 1:55 PM
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amoses wrote:
This was discussed in the US caving community a few years back when white nose syndrome was discovered.
I didn't realize that many cavers were cocaine users....


ObviousTroll


Aug 30, 2012, 5:53 PM
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USnavy wrote:
qwert wrote:
Does anyone have an idea - or an idea how i can find out about it - how chlorine solution (used as desinfection agent) will affect slings, both short term and long term.

Google is just tring to sell me chlorine pills to disinfect my pool...

And just to give you the background why i am asking (no, i am not trying to booty some slings from the site of a climbing accident, where the rescue folks had to disinfect some wounds on the site):

Its actually for those big, bulky industrial slings (the fat, heavy, colored things with a big WLL 1000kg written on them) and it is an industrial application, but the materials should be the same, so i thought i just ask here, if anyone has an idea how to find out more.

qwert
I cannot comment on long-term, but for short-term, chlorine bleach does not seem to affect nylon. I tested a piece of 1" tubular soaked in Clorox brand bleach. I let the sample sit out 24 hours to dry and then I pull tested the piece. There was almost no noticeable strength loss. I think the piece failed at within 4% of what the control failed at.


According to the website below, nylon has "fair" resistance to chlorine water.

http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance

Just curious, doesn't this show a 4% reduction in strength? Congruent with what was said here?

amoses wrote:
If I remember correctly, PMI has published research showing that ropes can be disinfected once with chlorine without a significant impact on strength(I think it was -5%), but the damage is cumulative with repeated exposure.

And then you contradicted this same statement here....

USnavy wrote:
I cannot comment on long-term, but for short-term, chlorine bleach does not seem to affect nylon.

So conclusively--Chlorine seems to weaken Nylon.


6pacfershur


Aug 30, 2012, 7:15 PM
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qwert wrote:
And just to give you the background why i am asking....Its actually for those big, bulky industrial slings....qwert

so, why are you asking?


USnavy


Aug 30, 2012, 8:57 PM
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ObviousTroll wrote:
USnavy wrote:
qwert wrote:
Does anyone have an idea - or an idea how i can find out about it - how chlorine solution (used as desinfection agent) will affect slings, both short term and long term.

Google is just tring to sell me chlorine pills to disinfect my pool...

And just to give you the background why i am asking (no, i am not trying to booty some slings from the site of a climbing accident, where the rescue folks had to disinfect some wounds on the site):

Its actually for those big, bulky industrial slings (the fat, heavy, colored things with a big WLL 1000kg written on them) and it is an industrial application, but the materials should be the same, so i thought i just ask here, if anyone has an idea how to find out more.

qwert
I cannot comment on long-term, but for short-term, chlorine bleach does not seem to affect nylon. I tested a piece of 1" tubular soaked in Clorox brand bleach. I let the sample sit out 24 hours to dry and then I pull tested the piece. There was almost no noticeable strength loss. I think the piece failed at within 4% of what the control failed at.


According to the website below, nylon has "fair" resistance to chlorine water.

http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance

Just curious, doesn't this show a 4% reduction in strength? Congruent with what was said here?

amoses wrote:
If I remember correctly, PMI has published research showing that ropes can be disinfected once with chlorine without a significant impact on strength(I think it was -5%), but the damage is cumulative with repeated exposure.

And then you contradicted this same statement here....

USnavy wrote:
I cannot comment on long-term, but for short-term, chlorine bleach does not seem to affect nylon.

So conclusively--Chlorine seems to weaken Nylon.
Sure, a 4% drop would show a 4% reduction in strength. But 4% of 22kN is an extremely negligible value. So yes, it reduces the strength, but for the short term, it does not reduce it enough to matter.


wivanoff


Aug 31, 2012, 6:26 AM
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qwert wrote:
Does anyone have an idea - or an idea how i can find out about it - how chlorine solution (used as desinfection agent) will affect slings, both short term and long term.

I don't know about how chlorine bleach effects the strength of nylon. But, as a home brewer, I often use a weak chlorine bleach solution to sanitize my brewing hardware. The ratio I use is about: 2 oz of bleach to 5 gallons of water and a 20 minute wet soak. Then a hot water rinse for metal or just air dry for plastic.

The food preparation industry often uses 1 tablespoon bleach to 1 gallon of water to sanitize surfaces and glassware. I think that gives 200 ppm.


ObviousTroll


Aug 31, 2012, 9:38 AM
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USnavy wrote:
Sure, a 4% drop would show a 4% reduction in strength. But 4% of 22kN is an extremely negligible value. So yes, it reduces the strength, but for the short term, it does not reduce it enough to matter.

lol, my bad. 1kN is a negligible value.


moose_droppings


Aug 31, 2012, 10:50 AM
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wivanoff wrote:

I don't know about how chlorine bleach effects the strength of nylon. But, as a home brewer, I often use a weak chlorine bleach solution to sanitize my brewing hardware. The ratio I use is about: 2 oz of bleach to 5 gallons of water and a 20 minute wet soak. Then a hot water rinse for metal or just air dry for plastic.

The food preparation industry often uses 1 tablespoon bleach to 1 gallon of water to sanitize surfaces and glassware. I think that gives 200 ppm.

I've bookmarked this answer in case I ever do some home brewing. I would of never thought to look on RC.com for this specific bit of information.


qwert


Aug 31, 2012, 11:43 AM
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wivanoff wrote:
The food preparation industry often uses 1 tablespoon bleach to 1 gallon of water to sanitize surfaces and glassware. I think that gives 200 ppm.
bingo
however no one thought about the lifting equipment when installing some new equipment.

seems like this thread confirms my suspicions. definitely some reduction in strength, though mostly in the long term.

so if i treat them as one time use items, i should be fine.

However i still would be interested if there is any official "industry" document on the whole issue.

qwert


jowybyo


Aug 31, 2012, 12:41 PM
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In reply to:
I cannot comment on long-term, but for short-term, chlorine bleach does not seem to affect nylon.

Chlorine has a cumulative affect on nylon. Each exposure to chlorine will continue to degrade nylon's material properties.

Repeated washing with chlorine is certainly not good for the material in the short or long term.

If this is a non-life support application, than don't worry too much about it. Just realize it will break sooner. If you plan to climb with or walk under something supported by the slings, I would not recommend exposing them to chlorine at all.


(This post was edited by jowybyo on Aug 31, 2012, 12:51 PM)


wivanoff


Aug 31, 2012, 4:57 PM
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moose_droppings wrote:
wivanoff wrote:

I don't know about how chlorine bleach effects the strength of nylon. But, as a home brewer, I often use a weak chlorine bleach solution to sanitize my brewing hardware. The ratio I use is about: 2 oz of bleach to 5 gallons of water and a 20 minute wet soak. Then a hot water rinse for metal or just air dry for plastic.

The food preparation industry often uses 1 tablespoon bleach to 1 gallon of water to sanitize surfaces and glassware. I think that gives 200 ppm.

I've bookmarked this answer in case I ever do some home brewing. I would of never thought to look on RC.com for this specific bit of information.

I've got nothing on tap at the moment due to the hot weather (ale yeast goes crazy) and being busy climbing. But next up is a British Ale and then an Oatmeal Stout. After that, an Anchor Porter clone. So, if you're ever in Connecticut.....

Oh, and the whole point was I "suspect" that very weak chlorine solution wouldn't have a tremendous effect on nylon, but I really don't know. I was just pointing out what strength solution is used to sanitize, if that's what the OP is after.


marc801


Aug 31, 2012, 5:59 PM
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Re: [moose_droppings] Chlorine solution and slings/soft goods? [In reply to]
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moose_droppings wrote:
I've bookmarked this answer in case I ever do some home brewing. I would of never thought to look on RC.com for this specific bit of information.
No need. It's fully explained in Papazian and on multiple home-brew forums.


theextremist04


Aug 31, 2012, 6:29 PM
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ObviousTroll wrote:
USnavy wrote:
Sure, a 4% drop would show a 4% reduction in strength. But 4% of 22kN is an extremely negligible value. So yes, it reduces the strength, but for the short term, it does not reduce it enough to matter.

lol, my bad. 1kN is a negligible value.
Can't believe I'm feeding the troll, but if you ever really need the difference between 21kN and 22kN you're going to have much bigger problems.


moose_droppings


Aug 31, 2012, 8:40 PM
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marc801 wrote:
moose_droppings wrote:
I've bookmarked this answer in case I ever do some home brewing. I would of never thought to look on RC.com for this specific bit of information.
No need. It's fully explained in Papazian and on multiple home-brew forums.

Really?

I would of thought those sites were busy explaining rock climbing techniques.

No need to go searching for the above info when I've already found it here, hence the bookmark.


moose_droppings


Aug 31, 2012, 8:45 PM
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wivanoff wrote:

I've got nothing on tap at the moment due to the hot weather (ale yeast goes crazy) and being busy climbing. But next up is a British Ale and then an Oatmeal Stout. After that, an Anchor Porter clone. So, if you're ever in Connecticut.....

Thanks, I'd be glad to take you up on that taste testing if I'm ever in that part of the country.


ObviousTroll


Sep 1, 2012, 8:53 AM
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theextremist04 wrote:
ObviousTroll wrote:
USnavy wrote:
Sure, a 4% drop would show a 4% reduction in strength. But 4% of 22kN is an extremely negligible value. So yes, it reduces the strength, but for the short term, it does not reduce it enough to matter.

lol, my bad. 1kN is a negligible value.
Can't believe I'm feeding the troll, but if you ever really need the difference between 21kN and 22kN you're going to have much bigger problems.

Though you're absolutely right, put it like this;

You go to buy gear off a friend, he pulls out a bunch of slings and says "these slings are all good to use, except this one isn't 22 kN anymore, it's only 21."

If you know that chlorine breaks down the integrity of Nylon, and with a noticeable amount in one application, why would you use it?


marc801


Sep 1, 2012, 10:44 AM
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ObviousTroll wrote:
If you know that chlorine breaks down the integrity of Nylon, and with a noticeable amount in one application, why would you use it?
+1
If it's just a matter of cleaning, there are lots of better options. If it's a matter of disinfecting, there are better options.


sbaclimber


Sep 1, 2012, 11:51 AM
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moose_droppings wrote:
wivanoff wrote:

I don't know about how chlorine bleach effects the strength of nylon. But, as a home brewer, I often use a weak chlorine bleach solution to sanitize my brewing hardware. The ratio I use is about: 2 oz of bleach to 5 gallons of water and a 20 minute wet soak. Then a hot water rinse for metal or just air dry for plastic.

The food preparation industry often uses 1 tablespoon bleach to 1 gallon of water to sanitize surfaces and glassware. I think that gives 200 ppm.

I've bookmarked this answer in case I ever do some home brewing. I would of never thought to look on RC.com for this specific bit of information.
It is a good answer, but not the only answer. I am also a homebrewer, but have never used chlorine as a sanitizer.


moose_droppings


Sep 1, 2012, 12:31 PM
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sbaclimber wrote:
moose_droppings wrote:
wivanoff wrote:

I don't know about how chlorine bleach effects the strength of nylon. But, as a home brewer, I often use a weak chlorine bleach solution to sanitize my brewing hardware. The ratio I use is about: 2 oz of bleach to 5 gallons of water and a 20 minute wet soak. Then a hot water rinse for metal or just air dry for plastic.

The food preparation industry often uses 1 tablespoon bleach to 1 gallon of water to sanitize surfaces and glassware. I think that gives 200 ppm.

I've bookmarked this answer in case I ever do some home brewing. I would of never thought to look on RC.com for this specific bit of information.
It is a good answer, but not the only answer. I am also a homebrewer, but have never used chlorine as a sanitizer.

Wow!!!!
Sorry no one caught the sarcasm in my posts.

I guess I'm the only one here who finds it comical that advise is being given about home brewing and cleaning on a rock climbing forum and the question posed was the effects on chlorine on slings/soft goods.

In reply to:
I don't know about how chlorine bleach effects the strength of nylon. But, as a home brewer, I often use a weak chlorine bleach solution to sanitize my brewing hardware.

What a leap.


sbaclimber


Sep 1, 2012, 1:18 PM
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moose_droppings wrote:
sbaclimber wrote:
moose_droppings wrote:
wivanoff wrote:

I don't know about how chlorine bleach effects the strength of nylon. But, as a home brewer, I often use a weak chlorine bleach solution to sanitize my brewing hardware. The ratio I use is about: 2 oz of bleach to 5 gallons of water and a 20 minute wet soak. Then a hot water rinse for metal or just air dry for plastic.

The food preparation industry often uses 1 tablespoon bleach to 1 gallon of water to sanitize surfaces and glassware. I think that gives 200 ppm.

I've bookmarked this answer in case I ever do some home brewing. I would of never thought to look on RC.com for this specific bit of information.
It is a good answer, but not the only answer. I am also a homebrewer, but have never used chlorine as a sanitizer.

Wow!!!!
Sorry no one caught the sarcasm in my posts.

I guess I'm the only one here who finds it comical that advise is being given about home brewing and cleaning on a rock climbing forum and the question posed was the effects on chlorine on slings/soft goods.
If it makes you feel any better, I've never bleached my climbing gear either...


qwert


Sep 1, 2012, 1:47 PM
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Somehow i have a slight feeling that this thread is drifting…
Oh well, i kinda got my answer.
Plus, the whole homebrew sanitizing stuff is at least not that off from the original situation. Beer and water are almost the same (at least in america), so its OK.

qwert


marc801


Sep 1, 2012, 3:35 PM
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qwert wrote:
Beer and water are almost the same (at least in america), so its OK.
If you honestly believe that, then you haven't been drinking the quality brews.

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