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How to keep the clusterfuck out of a double rope system during multipitch climbing?
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herites


Sep 7, 2012, 9:01 AM
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How to keep the clusterfuck out of a double rope system during multipitch climbing?
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Hi!

I've recently started to climb with double ropes, and I have a small (actually big) problem with rope management. With a single rope I just coil it over the rope running between my harness and the anchor. This works well most of the time, though it can still get messy, especially if belaying off my harness with a redirect, and when not swinging leads. This method ended in an utter clusterfuck with doubles.
I was thinking about getting rope buckets, but I don't really like the idea. I climb without a pack and a haul line, so I can't carry the buckets easily, nor can I haul them up. The anchors are usually two bolt anchors. Any ideas, apart from rope buckets?
Bonus question: what do you think about throwing an extra biner on each bolt (if they fit) and cloving into them with doubles, instead of cloving to the masterpoint?


(This post was edited by herites on Sep 7, 2012, 9:03 AM)


wivanoff


Sep 7, 2012, 9:11 AM
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Re: [herites] How to keep the clusterfuck out of a double rope system during multipitch climbing? [In reply to]
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http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=1086805#1086805

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...i?post=512967#512967

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2550219#2550219


wonderwoman


Sep 7, 2012, 9:32 AM
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Re: [wivanoff] How to keep the clusterfuck out of a double rope system during multipitch climbing? [In reply to]
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wivanoff struck the (r)gold on this one!


chadnsc


Sep 7, 2012, 10:50 AM
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Re: [wonderwoman] How to keep the clusterfuck out of a double rope system during multipitch climbing? [In reply to]
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Yup, rgold's account should simply be placed in the FAQ section with a note to scroll through his posts as the answer to nearly any climbing question is in there somewhere.


USnavy


Sep 7, 2012, 1:23 PM
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Re: [herites] How to keep the clusterfuck out of a double rope system during multipitch climbing? [In reply to]
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Climbing with half ropes has a pretty steep learning curve at first. Twin ropes are not as bad, but halves can really suck until you get it down. If you are using half ropes, stack the ropes separately. Put one stack on your left leg or on the left side of the anchor, and the other on your right leg or the right side of the anchor. If you are using twin ropes, you can stack them together just like a single rope, but you have to use greater care to ensure that the strands do not hang down and get caught on a flake or something. Also, if you are climbing steep routes with minimal large features on the rock, make BIG loops when stacking the rope on your leg. Start with 25' loops and go progressively smaller (25',23',21', ect). It is very important that every sequential loop is progressively smaller than the last, otherwise when you pull the rope up to feed out to the leader, you are going to pull up multiple loops of rope and they are going to get tangled.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Sep 7, 2012, 1:24 PM)


bearbreeder


Sep 7, 2012, 5:25 PM
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Re: [herites] How to keep the clusterfuck out of a double rope system during multipitch climbing? [In reply to]
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When setting up the top belay take 2 long slings .... Attach one to the left most anchor point and clip it to yr left harness loop or left of the belay loop ... Vice versa with the other sling on the right ...

Put the follower on autoblock ... And as they come flake each respective rope over the respective slings

When the second is up, simply clip the sling back to itself and you have 2 perfect saddlebagged ropes ready for leading i u do it correctly

Wink


tradmanclimbs


Sep 7, 2012, 5:34 PM
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Re: [USnavy] How to keep the clusterfuck out of a double rope system during multipitch climbing? [In reply to]
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No need to stack them seperatly. thousands of ice climbers don't ;) A few things that help make it work.
#1 always start P1 with the two stacks very close together and make certain that they run straight into your belay device without getting a twist started. This means makeing the initial stacks in a god spot close the where you are belaying. Also that your breaking end of the belay device aimes right at the rope stacks.

#2 on the belays once you leave the ground if you are stacking over your teather to the anchor make certain that you always shake out 20ft of rope ahead of the belay device so that the rope being fed into the belay device comes from that long lazy loop that drapes down from your stance and directly back up to the device and NOT from the coil directly in front of you. again it must feed nice and straight into the device.


potreroed


Sep 7, 2012, 7:14 PM
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Re: [herites] How to keep the clusterfuck out of a double rope system during multipitch climbing? [In reply to]
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Double ropes suck--go back to single rope. KISS.


USnavy


Sep 7, 2012, 8:27 PM
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Re: [tradmanclimbs] How to keep the clusterfuck out of a double rope system during multipitch climbing? [In reply to]
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tradmanclimbs wrote:
No need to stack them seperatly. thousands of ice climbers don't ;) A few things that help make it work.
#1 always start P1 with the two stacks very close together and make certain that they run straight into your belay device without getting a twist started. This means makeing the initial stacks in a god spot close the where you are belaying. Also that your breaking end of the belay device aimes right at the rope stacks.

#2 on the belays once you leave the ground if you are stacking over your teather to the anchor make certain that you always shake out 20ft of rope ahead of the belay device so that the rope being fed into the belay device comes from that long lazy loop that drapes down from your stance and directly back up to the device and NOT from the coil directly in front of you. again it must feed nice and straight into the device.
Dont most ice climbers use twin ropes rather than halves? I guess I wouldent know, I dont climb ice. But anyway, stacking them together if they are twins are no big deal, but I found that if I stack them together as halves, I have different ropes pulling from different sides of the stack. In other words, one rope may feed from the left and the other from the right, and that orientation changes over and over throughout the climb as the length of rope out is often different for each rope in a half rope system.


USnavy


Sep 7, 2012, 8:29 PM
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Re: [potreroed] How to keep the clusterfuck out of a double rope system during multipitch climbing? [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
Double ropes suck--go back to single rope. KISS.
Twins are awesome where you need to rap a full 60m and you dont want to carry an extra rope. Half ropes can really help cut down rope drag if you use them right. but I agree, half ropes generally suck and a single or twin system is a lot better.


herites


Sep 8, 2012, 3:52 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] How to keep the clusterfuck out of a double rope system during multipitch climbing? [In reply to]
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I'll try this sling method, thanks. Also gonna try the Metolious rope hook, when I got spare 50 euros (those things are f*ing expensive here, 80 euro=100 bucks for a cam, etc)

@USnavy: I tried to coiling, failed miserably. I can't coil them neat enough to work, even with singles I coil them that all loops are the same size, not progressively smaller.

My ropes are rated as both halves and twins, I usually use them as twins. They're lighter than a 60 single+60m pull cord, and I often need full length raps.


Partner rgold


Sep 8, 2012, 8:06 AM
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Re: [herites] How to keep the clusterfuck out of a double rope system during multipitch climbing? [In reply to]
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50 Euros???? The Metolius rope hooks cost $15 (about 12 Euros) a piece here, so about 24 Euros for a pair.

There isn't even a slight advantage to separating the ropes once you are off the ground. And trying to get two ropes properly flaked over a pair of slings is just going to make it more likely that you don't get the loops ordered in descending size on at least one of them and of course that's the one that will tangle. And then closing up the slings into "saddlebags" and pulling the rope out of them increases the possibility for tangling, not only because you can't intervene when tangling happens but also because the friction of strand against strand is enhanced when the strands are bound more tightly together in a "saddlebag," and this can pull other strands out of their correct adjustment.

If the loops are flaked over a tie-in, you have a better chance of lifting and unhooking a loop that is about to capture a bunch of others, especially if, contrary to the conventional wisdom, you make the loops short enough so that you can just reach down and unhook any loop that is trying to capture others. If you use long loops and the tangling action is going on ten feet below you, there is nothing you can do.

None of these issues occur with the rope hooks, because you just lift the strands off the hook and drop them. If you aren't pulling the loops up and shortening them in the process, you've completely eliminated the tangling mechanism.


(This post was edited by rgold on Sep 8, 2012, 1:37 PM)


bearbreeder


Sep 8, 2012, 10:21 AM
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Re: [rgold] How to keep the clusterfuck out of a double rope system during multipitch climbing? [In reply to]
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I do it all the time especially in groups of 3s and with trailling ropes ... I also sadlebag trailling ropes when using a tag line ... Whatever works for u

Or are RCers trying to tell other people how to climb again ...

Wink


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