Forums: Climbing Information: The Lab:
Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for The Lab

Premier Sponsor:

 


Marylandclimber


Oct 3, 2012, 12:41 PM
Post #1 of 23 (7262 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 3, 2011
Posts: 224

Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

On a C4 Cam's nylon attached to the thumb loop, is it safe to write your name on it with a sharpie? I heard Nylon is more prone to chemicals weakening it down. A friend of mine who I climb with writes his name on it heavily and was just wondering. I doubt it'll be enough to compromise it but it seams to really seep into it. I thought it would be best to be asked here at the "Lab" forum because you guys probably know this stuff.


gosharks


Oct 3, 2012, 12:48 PM
Post #2 of 23 (7256 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 6, 2004
Posts: 268

Re: [Marylandclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/journal/climb/qclab/qc-lab-can-i-use-a-sharpie-to-mark-the-middle-of-my-rope


marc801


Oct 3, 2012, 1:06 PM
Post #3 of 23 (7249 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2747

Re: [Marylandclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Marylandclimber wrote:
On a C4 Cam's nylon attached to the thumb loop, is it safe to write your name on it with a sharpie? I heard Nylon is more prone to chemicals weakening it down. A friend of mine who I climb with writes his name on it heavily and was just wondering. I doubt it'll be enough to compromise it but it seams to really seep into it. I thought it would be best to be asked here at the "Lab" forum because you guys probably know this stuff.
It's all about the compound, not the quantity.
You can soak your slings in a bucket of gasoline with no ill effects (from a material strength and integrity standpoint) but severely compromise the sling with half a shot glass of battery acid.


USnavy


Oct 3, 2012, 2:40 PM
Post #4 of 23 (7212 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 5, 2007
Posts: 2661

Re: [Marylandclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

Marylandclimber wrote:
On a C4 Cam's nylon attached to the thumb loop, is it safe to write your name on it with a sharpie? I heard Nylon is more prone to chemicals weakening it down. A friend of mine who I climb with writes his name on it heavily and was just wondering. I doubt it'll be enough to compromise it but it seams to really seep into it. I thought it would be best to be asked here at the "Lab" forum because you guys probably know this stuff.
Well, most will tell you no. However, I have marked dozens of ropes with Sharpies and I know countless climbers who use a Sharpie to mark their slings or draws. I have also pull tested slings heavily marked in a verity of different permanent markers and I did not really notice a drop in strength.

The problem is that Sharpie can change the chemicals they use in their markers at any time, which would nullify what testing does exist on Sharpie ink. None the less, I dont suspect we will be reading about any injuries or deaths anytime soon that came as a result of a Sharpie marked sling failing. Climbers have been marking their gear with Sharpies since the beginning of time and to my knowledge, there has never been a recorded instance in which a sling failed as a direct result of having been marked with a Sharpie.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Oct 3, 2012, 2:45 PM)


njrox


Oct 4, 2012, 5:25 AM
Post #5 of 23 (7112 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 12, 2011
Posts: 251

Re: [Marylandclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I've seen people put these colored dot stickers on their cams (not on the slings), biners, and other peices of gear to help indentify them as their own. Look around and you'll find them.


(This post was edited by njrox on Oct 4, 2012, 6:10 AM)


durangoclimber


Oct 4, 2012, 8:05 AM
Post #6 of 23 (7073 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 14, 2008
Posts: 179

Re: [Marylandclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

I use blue (that's the color on all my gear) finger nail pollish under the the cam trigger, or on other places that I can.


durangoclimber


Oct 4, 2012, 8:08 AM
Post #7 of 23 (7071 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 14, 2008
Posts: 179

Re: [durangoclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Meaning on the plastic and/or metal parts. I actually put a dab on the nylon sling "tab/tag".


Marylandclimber


Oct 4, 2012, 12:18 PM
Post #8 of 23 (7026 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 3, 2011
Posts: 224

Re: [USnavy] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

USnavy wrote:
Marylandclimber wrote:
On a C4 Cam's nylon attached to the thumb loop, is it safe to write your name on it with a sharpie? I heard Nylon is more prone to chemicals weakening it down. A friend of mine who I climb with writes his name on it heavily and was just wondering. I doubt it'll be enough to compromise it but it seams to really seep into it. I thought it would be best to be asked here at the "Lab" forum because you guys probably know this stuff.
Well, most will tell you no. However, I have marked dozens of ropes with Sharpies and I know countless climbers who use a Sharpie to mark their slings or draws. I have also pull tested slings heavily marked in a verity of different permanent markers and I did not really notice a drop in strength.

The problem is that Sharpie can change the chemicals they use in their markers at any time, which would nullify what testing does exist on Sharpie ink. None the less, I dont suspect we will be reading about any injuries or deaths anytime soon that came as a result of a Sharpie marked sling failing. Climbers have been marking their gear with Sharpies since the beginning of time and to my knowledge, there has never been a recorded instance in which a sling failed as a direct result of having been marked with a Sharpie.

As always, you replies seam most reliable. I didn't think it had a large effect but was just curious to hear if it had any effect short or long term. I've heard battery acid completely ruins it. However, how would anyone get battery acid on their gear?


(This post was edited by Marylandclimber on Oct 4, 2012, 12:19 PM)


iknowfear


Oct 4, 2012, 12:47 PM
Post #9 of 23 (7005 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 8, 2004
Posts: 639

Re: [Marylandclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Marylandclimber wrote:
USnavy wrote:
Marylandclimber wrote:
On a C4 Cam's nylon attached to the thumb loop, is it safe to write your name on it with a sharpie? I heard Nylon is more prone to chemicals weakening it down. A friend of mine who I climb with writes his name on it heavily and was just wondering. I doubt it'll be enough to compromise it but it seams to really seep into it. I thought it would be best to be asked here at the "Lab" forum because you guys probably know this stuff.
Well, most will tell you no. However, I have marked dozens of ropes with Sharpies and I know countless climbers who use a Sharpie to mark their slings or draws. I have also pull tested slings heavily marked in a verity of different permanent markers and I did not really notice a drop in strength.

The problem is that Sharpie can change the chemicals they use in their markers at any time, which would nullify what testing does exist on Sharpie ink. None the less, I dont suspect we will be reading about any injuries or deaths anytime soon that came as a result of a Sharpie marked sling failing. Climbers have been marking their gear with Sharpies since the beginning of time and to my knowledge, there has never been a recorded instance in which a sling failed as a direct result of having been marked with a Sharpie.

As always, you replies seam most reliable. I didn't think it had a large effect but was just curious to hear if it had any effect short or long term. I've heard battery acid completely ruins it. However, how would anyone get battery acid on their gear?

By storing their climbing gear in a garage or pickup conversion...


marc801


Oct 4, 2012, 2:29 PM
Post #10 of 23 (6986 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2747

Re: [iknowfear] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

iknowfear wrote:
Marylandclimber wrote:
I've heard battery acid completely ruins it. However, how would anyone get battery acid on their gear?

By storing their climbing gear in a garage or pickup conversion...
Even the fumes from a lead-acid battery in an enclosed space can damage nylon. Bleach is another culprit.


Marylandclimber


Oct 4, 2012, 5:10 PM
Post #11 of 23 (6960 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 3, 2011
Posts: 224

Re: [marc801] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

:/ That's scary I keep my gear in my room on a wall.


rocknice2


Oct 5, 2012, 5:58 AM
Post #12 of 23 (6912 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 1203

Re: [durangoclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

durangoclimber wrote:
I use blue (that's the color on all my gear) finger nail pollish under the the cam trigger, or on other places that I can.
Yellow


markc


Oct 5, 2012, 6:35 AM
Post #13 of 23 (6901 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2475

Re: [durangoclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

durangoclimber wrote:
I use blue (that's the color on all my gear) finger nail pollish under the the cam trigger, or on other places that I can.

I picked up some Trango gear tags for around $5. They tend to wear off biners, but they've lasted a long time on cam stems up near the lobes. That's an area that won't come into contact with rock. Other friends use nail polish, colored electrical tape, etc. When electrical or other tapes come off, some leave a pretty tacky residue.


Partner robdotcalm


Oct 5, 2012, 7:53 AM
Post #14 of 23 (6882 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 31, 2002
Posts: 1023

Re: [Marylandclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
"Marylandclimber
However, how would anyone get battery acid on their gear?

By laying their gear on an area where cars park. There was a case where a climber had a rope break in a gym accident. Analysis of the break showed the presence of sulfuric acid mostly likely picked from the rope being on the ground in a parking area (there was a thread on the topic some years ago).

It's common to see climbers take a rope out of their car and put it on the ground.

Cheers,
Rob.calm


potreroed


Oct 5, 2012, 9:21 AM
Post #15 of 23 (6860 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 30, 2001
Posts: 1451

Re: [Marylandclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Last I heard, from a reliable source, Magic Marker brand and Sharpie brand are safe.


USnavy


Oct 5, 2012, 9:29 AM
Post #16 of 23 (6859 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 5, 2007
Posts: 2661

Re: [marc801] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

marc801 wrote:
iknowfear wrote:
Marylandclimber wrote:
I've heard battery acid completely ruins it. However, how would anyone get battery acid on their gear?

By storing their climbing gear in a garage or pickup conversion...
Even the fumes from a lead-acid battery in an enclosed space can damage nylon. Bleach is another culprit.
I have done a little bit of bleach testing on nylon, and it seems that bleach does not really affect nylon, at least not in the short term. As far as fumes go, I would have to say no to that too, but I have not actually tested it. The issue with battery acid is that it contains sulfuric acid and SA will damage nylon. However, when an automotive battery is charging, the majority of the "fumes" that come out is hydrogen. Sulfuric acid does not really evaporate, that is the reason why you add water to a low battery and not battery acid. Battery acid is part water part SA, but only the water evaporates.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Oct 5, 2012, 9:33 AM)


marc801


Oct 5, 2012, 11:13 AM
Post #17 of 23 (6837 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2747

Re: [USnavy] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

USnavy wrote:
I have done a little bit of bleach testing on nylon, and it seems that bleach does not really affect nylon, at least not in the short term.
Probably, but the research I've seen appears to indicate a cumulative effect.

USnavy wrote:
As far as fumes go, I would have to say no to that too, but I have not actually tested it. The issue with battery acid is that it contains sulfuric acid and SA will damage nylon. However, when an automotive battery is charging, the majority of the "fumes" that come out is hydrogen. Sulfuric acid does not really evaporate, that is the reason why you add water to a low battery and not battery acid. Battery acid is part water part SA, but only the water evaporates.
Agreed, mostly, but I wasn't thinking of the hydrogen released from charging a LA battery, but the little bit of HSO3 gas that is released as well. When in contact with moisture in the air, it quickly disassociates and forms H2SO4 vapor, which can indeed attack nylon. A similar process can happen with bleach. Also, while true that the H2SO4 doesn't evaporate from the battery, small droplets of the acidic liquid can hitch a ride with the rising hydrogen gas.

Admittedly this is all pretty remote - I mean, how many people are actively charging a LA battery next to their rope in an enclosed space? But it's also a caveat about potential rope damaging contaminates on a garage floor or in a parking lot.


akleeka


Oct 5, 2012, 1:45 PM
Post #18 of 23 (6807 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 5, 2012
Posts: 3

Re: [Marylandclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

add me to the sir marks a lot camp, I do it on my bds


billcoe_


Oct 8, 2012, 9:06 PM
Post #19 of 23 (6641 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4668

Re: [Marylandclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Marylandclimber wrote:
I've heard battery acid completely ruins it. However, how would anyone get battery acid on their gear?

The last guy who had his rope fall apart in a short gym fall theorized that he had set it on the pavement sans the ropebag when he came back to his car from climbing. The rope was tested to have sulferic acid, he swore that it was a newer rope, he had always stuffed it in a rope bag, and that was the only place he could think of.

Of course you can mark your cam slings with sharpies. Just don't go crazy doing it. Great anti theft device, more people should do it.


billcoe_


Oct 8, 2012, 9:12 PM
Post #20 of 23 (6637 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4668

Re: [billcoe_] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Oh, don't use it to mark your rope. In conversations with Michael Beal, he says that it stiffens the rope up where marked, and in the test device the stiffener is what causes premature breakage of ropes in the tests when tested over a radius. In the real world we don't tend to ever see that kind of thing, the 20' closest to you gets the most wear (non-toproping), and so those tests are not that significant. But as you can get proper and approved marking material for a pittance, better safe than sorry.

Nice find on the BD test site. Black Diamond tests were straight pull, not over an edge.

No Center Mark
2222

Rope at Bottom Knot
Factory Center Mark
2226

Rope at Bottom Knot
Sharpie Center Mark 1
2311

Rope at Bottom Knot
Sharpie Center Mark 2
2334

Rope at Bottom Knot


yodadave


Oct 9, 2012, 2:38 PM
Post #21 of 23 (6568 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 10, 2008
Posts: 510

Re: [billcoe_] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

my understanding is that the Sharpie professional series is slightly more consistent in their formula and as such even safer on gear.

I feel like that has been mentioned on here before


Marylandclimber


Oct 11, 2012, 3:48 AM
Post #22 of 23 (6483 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 3, 2011
Posts: 224

Re: [Marylandclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hey guys thanks for all the nice responses. It seems that the nylon doesn't get effected enough by the sharpie to fail.


technogeekery


Oct 11, 2012, 4:16 PM
Post #23 of 23 (6419 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 16, 2009
Posts: 146

Re: [Marylandclimber] Cam Nylon Sharpie Writing [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

From Bluewaterropes.com FAQ:

"What is the beta on marking pens?
Marking pens are fine to use on ropes as long as they are water based laundry markers. Years ago solvent based markers were the norm. Some of the solvents used in these old pens could reduce the strength of the sheath strands marked. These days most pens are water based so this is not as much of an issue as in years passed. We recommend a Sharpie "rub a dub" laundry marking pen."


Forums : Climbing Information : The Lab

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook