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Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR)
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Emph


Oct 9, 2012, 7:26 AM
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Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR)
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First let me say, I am new to climbing and have been out with a guide/instructor 3 separate times. The first time to get a feel for the sport, the second time to emphasize rappelling and rappel safety, the third time emphasizing anchors. I'm afraid I can't afford $175 days anymore. Or I'd be out a couple times a week with a guide/instructor.

I own and have read John Long/Bob Gaines' Climbing Anchors book as well as the John Long's How to Rock Climb.

Myself and a partner went climbing over the weekend. I gave lead climbing a shot because the sport route we chose did not have top access to the anchor bolts, and I wasn't confident of a solid rappel anchor to access the top of the route from.

When I got to the top, I already knew I was going to use a basic sliding x, my instructor went over that one a lot for top roping.

What he did not go over was the transition from this anchor to the rope, if that makes sense. Basically, I anchored myself real fast with a quick draw and a sling so I could build the top rope anchor with both hands, but that did not feel to great due to the lack of redundancy and all the other rules of thumb my instructor taught me about anchors. After it was built, I had some difficulty transitioning my weight from my temporary anchor to the rope so I could release and clean my temp anchor. I was able to do it, but not very confidently at all.

Could someone please point me in the direction of some info, maybe a book or a knot I'm forgetting or even a method that comes with experience? Anything would be helpful. Thank you.


theextremist04


Oct 9, 2012, 7:35 AM
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Re: [Emph] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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First off, as long as you stay clipped into the bolts below you your system is still technically redundant- while you may take a bigger fall, you probably won't hit the ground. Second, the best protocol at the anchors (assuming they're two bomber bolts) is something along the lines of get up, clip a draw to one and clip the rope through that like normal, clip yourself to the other (with something like a leash or quickdraw or such) and then you should have the ability to go hands free. The best way to get your weight off of your direct connection is to make sure it's longer than the anchor, so that as soon as that's built you can simply have your climbing partner take all the slack in and you can weight that rope to unclip your leash.


csproul


Oct 9, 2012, 7:35 AM
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Re: [Emph] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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Emph wrote:
First let me say, I am new to climbing and have been out with a guide/instructor 3 separate times. The first time to get a feel for the sport, the second time to emphasize rappelling and rappel safety, the third time emphasizing anchors. I'm afraid I can't afford $175 days anymore. Or I'd be out a couple times a week with a guide/instructor.

I own and have read John Long/Bob Gaines' Climbing Anchors book as well as the John Long's How to Rock Climb.

Myself and a partner went climbing over the weekend. I gave lead climbing a shot because the sport route we chose did not have top access to the anchor bolts, and I wasn't confident of a solid rappel anchor to access the top of the route from.

When I got to the top, I already knew I was going to use a basic sliding x, my instructor went over that one a lot for top roping.

What he did not go over was the transition from this anchor to the rope, if that makes sense. Basically, I anchored myself real fast with a quick draw and a sling so I could build the top rope anchor with both hands, but that did not feel to great due to the lack of redundancy and all the other rules of thumb my instructor taught me about anchors. After it was built, I had some difficulty transitioning my weight from my temporary anchor to the rope so I could release and clean my temp anchor. I was able to do it, but not very confidently at all.

Could someone please point me in the direction of some info, maybe a book or a knot I'm forgetting or even a method that comes with experience? Anything would be helpful. Thank you.


Simplest method, no temporary anchor:
Get to top.
Clip draw #1 to bolt #1
Clip rope to draw #1
Take (have belayer hold your weight) on draw #1 if needed
Clip draw #2 into bolt #2
Clip rope into draw #2 with gate opposing that of draw #1
Lower and TR off of the two opposed draws.

More complex methods than that...not going to try to describe on the internet. Learn from a real live person.


marc801


Oct 9, 2012, 10:34 AM
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Re: [csproul] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
More complex methods than that...not going to try to describe on the internet. Learn from a real live person.
+1
Especially since there's the whole issue of how to get the draws back when everyone is done with the route, which also doesn't lend itself to an internet description.


markc


Oct 9, 2012, 10:54 AM
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Re: [marc801] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
csproul wrote:
More complex methods than that...not going to try to describe on the internet. Learn from a real live person.
+1
Especially since there's the whole issue of how to get the draws back when everyone is done with the route, which also doesn't lend itself to an internet description.

That was my thought. If getting the TR rigged posed problems, how well did breaking the anchor and descending go? None of it is necessarily complex, but communication and sequencing are critical.


marc801


Oct 9, 2012, 2:26 PM
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Re: [markc] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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markc wrote:
That was my thought. If getting the TR rigged posed problems, how well did breaking the anchor and descending go? None of it is necessarily complex, but communication and sequencing are critical.
And if you blow the sequence, you can easily die - something that is often not fully realized by beginners.


Emph


Oct 9, 2012, 3:58 PM
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Re: [marc801] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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This and my initial issue never came up during the sessions with my instructor.

He simply went over a few TR anchors at eye level on the ground, the SRENE concept etc. Then we did a couple climbs where he incorporated other types of anchors.

The bomber bolts on my weekend climb had rings on them. So when I climbed back up to clean the anchor I fed the rope through them and rappelled down.

Which leads me to another question. If the rings weren't there, what would have been the best way to remove my anchor and get down without feeding the rope through the eye of the anchor? In one of these books (Climbing Anchors I believe) I remember reading that over time the rope will groove the eye of the anchor, which is a big no-no.


marc801


Oct 9, 2012, 4:43 PM
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Re: [Emph] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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Emph wrote:
This and my initial issue never came up during the sessions with my instructor.

He simply went over a few TR anchors at eye level on the ground, the SRENE concept etc. Then we did a couple climbs where he incorporated other types of anchors.

The bomber bolts on my weekend climb had rings on them. So when I climbed back up to clean the anchor I fed the rope through them and rappelled down.

Which leads me to another question. If the rings weren't there, what would have been the best way to remove my anchor and get down without feeding the rope through the eye of the anchor? In one of these books (Climbing Anchors I believe) I remember reading that over time the rope will groove the eye of the anchor, which is a big no-no.

Read what I bolded - you don't know enough yet to safely go out on your own.

As I said up thread:
In reply to:
Especially since there's the whole issue of how to get the draws back when everyone is done with the route, which also doesn't lend itself to an internet description.

One of the steps involves untying from the rope; in a later step you then retie, all while hanging off the bolts. This is why it really should be taught in person and not described in text - the potential consequences of screwing up the steps are huge.


(This post was edited by marc801 on Oct 9, 2012, 4:45 PM)


bigredscowboy


Oct 26, 2012, 10:49 AM
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Re: [Emph] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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Emph,
Go out to your local crag (or gym). Make nice and offer to belay someone's third wheel (assuming you are very confident belaying. Chat it up and figure out how long they've been climbing and what experience they have. Find someone with years of outdoor climbing experience and offer to drive him/her out to his/her fav crag and buy breakfast. Repeat offer frequently and learn the old-fashioned way. Don't ask too many questions at first, just enjoy and observe.


saint_john


Oct 26, 2012, 11:08 AM
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Re: [marc801] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
markc wrote:
That was my thought. If getting the TR rigged posed problems, how well did breaking the anchor and descending go? None of it is necessarily complex, but communication and sequencing are critical.
And if you blow the sequence, you can easily die - something that is often not fully realized by beginners.

Marc is right.
Cleaning anchors and lower/rapping is one of the most dangerous aspects of climbing. You need to be instructed, live and in person, by experienced climbers and not from a lesson on RC.com.
You can either make friends or pay a guide. $175 pales in comparison to ER visits, surgery, or funeral costs.


Syd


Oct 31, 2012, 2:59 AM
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Re: [saint_john] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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Not a good spot to start trying to figure things out. Lucky you didn't mess up and drop the rope.

Buy a couple of 10-12m 11mm statics, some slings, rope protectors and biners and set up your own top ropes. The most important thing to remember is full redundancy.


surfstar


Oct 31, 2012, 8:53 AM
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Re: [Emph] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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Emph wrote:
I am new to climbing and have been out with a guide/instructor 3 separate times.
I own and have read John Long/Bob Gaines' Climbing Anchors book as well as the John Long's How to Rock Climb.

I gave lead climbing a shot because the sport route we chose did not have top access to the anchor bolts, and I wasn't confident of a solid rappel anchor to


You guys are buying this?

Crazy


Would you even know all of the gear to buy for lead climbing after 3 guided days? Unsure


(This post was edited by surfstar on Oct 31, 2012, 8:55 AM)


csproul


Oct 31, 2012, 9:16 AM
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Re: [surfstar] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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surfstar wrote:
Emph wrote:
I am new to climbing and have been out with a guide/instructor 3 separate times.
I own and have read John Long/Bob Gaines' Climbing Anchors book as well as the John Long's How to Rock Climb.

I gave lead climbing a shot because the sport route we chose did not have top access to the anchor bolts, and I wasn't confident of a solid rappel anchor to


You guys are buying this?

Crazy


Would you even know all of the gear to buy for lead climbing after 3 guided days? Unsure
Uhh. it's a sport route...not exactly rocket science to figure out what kind of gear you'll need.


(This post was edited by csproul on Oct 31, 2012, 9:16 AM)


marc801


Oct 31, 2012, 9:16 AM
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Re: [surfstar] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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surfstar wrote:
Would you even know all of the gear to buy for lead climbing after 3 guided days? Unsure
Sport climbing and someone who is a good observer? Sure, why not? Climbing ain't rocket surgery.


surfstar


Oct 31, 2012, 9:27 AM
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Re: [csproul] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
surfstar wrote:
Emph wrote:
I am new to climbing and have been out with a guide/instructor 3 separate times.
I own and have read John Long/Bob Gaines' Climbing Anchors book as well as the John Long's How to Rock Climb.

I gave lead climbing a shot because the sport route we chose did not have top access to the anchor bolts, and I wasn't confident of a solid rappel anchor to


You guys are buying this?

Crazy


Would you even know all of the gear to buy for lead climbing after 3 guided days? Unsure
Uhh. it's a sport route...not exactly rocket science to figure out what kind of gear you'll need.

marc801 wrote:
surfstar wrote:
Would you even know all of the gear to buy for lead climbing after 3 guided days? Unsure
Sport climbing and someone who is a good observer? Sure, why not? Climbing ain't rocket surgery.

How many "what gear do I need" threads are there? Beginners can't figure out what shoes to buy, how many quickdraws, slings, lockers, etc and this guy goes out and just leads a route b/c they couldn't access the top for TR? I don't buy it.
If he asked if he was ready to lead (with no guide around) after 3 days of climbing, everyone would say no and yer gonna die. Backclipping and etc.
Just surprised everyone kinda glossed over this in the OP.


Wade308


Oct 31, 2012, 9:30 AM
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Re: [marc801] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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Let me take a crack at this. I've only taken one beginners class and one guided trip.

If I was going to take a crack at a sport route with no experience, I figure a handful of quick draws and a few locking locking biners ought to get the job done. Maybe some cordelette for good measure.

How'd I do? Smile


(This post was edited by Wade308 on Oct 31, 2012, 9:31 AM)


csproul


Oct 31, 2012, 9:34 AM
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Re: [surfstar] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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I didn't suggest that it was an awesome idea, but you don't have to be too bright to figure out what gear you'll need to lead a sport route after reading some books and three days with a guide.

Hell, it wasn't that long ago that many of us learned to lead on gear by just getting a few stoppers, (maybe) reading a book, and going for it! Most of us survived the trial and error! Sure there are better ways of doing it, but it ain't that difficult as long as you think things through.


majid_sabet


Oct 31, 2012, 3:53 PM
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Re: [Emph] Transition from Anchor to Rope (TR) [In reply to]
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to reduce deadly fuck-up , you should clip with two slings to anchors (assuming bolts) then you switch to rope and un-clip one and put your weight and test your rope system then un-clip the second and move on.


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Oct 31, 2012, 3:54 PM)


Emph


Oct 31, 2012, 4:28 PM
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meh [In reply to]
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No big deal, some people decide what parts of posts to consider and what parts to ignore. Others like to glorify the simplest of things to edify themselves. Some like to do both.

Side note, I took Bigredscowboy's advice and got out there and met some people, first advice I've seen that didn't include "Spend more money on guides.". Have been getting some good tips and a solid skill base from some, not much from others.

Thanks to all that offered advice, and even those that didn't.


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