Forums: Climbing Information: Gear Heads:
Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts?
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Gear Heads

Premier Sponsor:

 


corno32


Oct 11, 2012, 9:53 PM
Post #1 of 19 (5333 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 7, 2012
Posts: 17

Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts?
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

hi

I use a wiregate carabiner with the usual keylock configuration at the moment to rack my BD and dmm nuts. It's annoying to have the nut wire catch the notch sometimes as I go to use them, I'd like to try a carabiner that's smooth without the keylock notch.

Anyone have a favorite carabiner that isn't a keylock that works well for racking these?

thx


petsfed


Oct 12, 2012, 1:00 AM
Post #2 of 19 (5304 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 24, 2002
Posts: 8594

Re: [corno32] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

corno32 wrote:
hi

I use a wiregate carabiner with the usual keylock configuration at the moment to rack my BD and dmm nuts. It's annoying to have the nut wire catch the notch sometimes as I go to use them, I'd like to try a carabiner that's smooth without the keylock notch.

Anyone have a favorite carabiner that isn't a keylock that works well for racking these?

thx

You're confusing two terms:

A traditional hooked carabiner has a hook that hooks a pin in the gate, or the wire on a wiregate. A keylock carabiner (the term is trademarked by petzl) does not have such a hook.

I like the positrons. Others like the spirits. Personally, I prefer an oval for my nuts, because they don't bunch together as much. To be honest, I actually prefer a traditional hooked carabiner because the nuts are less likely to spill off unexpectedly if the crab comes open accidentally.


rocknice2


Oct 12, 2012, 4:01 AM
Post #3 of 19 (5282 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 1213

Re: [corno32] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I hate notched biners. The whole rack is notchless, with the exception of the 2 stopper racking biners. That little notch comes in handy for capturing runaway nuts.


patto


Oct 12, 2012, 5:46 AM
Post #4 of 19 (5257 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2005
Posts: 1452

Re: [rocknice2] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rocknice2 wrote:
I hate notched biners. The whole rack is notchless, with the exception of the 2 stopper racking biners. That little notch comes in handy for capturing runaway nuts.

As far as racking goes, each to their own really. Angelic But that said....

If you are getting run away nuts then you are doing it wrong! (IMO) At no stage should the biner be open except when the desired nut is placed and all the nuts are in the bottom basket. When this occurs the gate can be opened and the emplaced nut slipped off aided by no notch.

No possibility of runaway nuts. I carry 30 nuts while climbing racked across 3 oval notchless biners.

Most of the rest of my rack are notched biners of phantoms and neutrinos. I'd slightly prefer light notchless but heliums are not cheap!


wonderwoman


Oct 12, 2012, 6:30 AM
Post #5 of 19 (5241 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4269

Re: [corno32] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Moved from general to gear heads by ww.

I prefer notchless, too. However, my good biners are for my gear. My nuts are on bail biners that we have come across. One is an notched oval with a nice little rope groove in it from being bailed on so many times, I suppose. The wires sit nicely in the groove. And I get what you say about the wires getting stuck in the notch, but it hasn't been that big of an issue for me.


bearbreeder


Oct 12, 2012, 6:55 AM
Post #6 of 19 (5234 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 1, 2009
Posts: 1960

Re: [patto] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

patto wrote:

If you are getting run away nuts then you are doing it wrong! (IMO) At no stage should the biner be open except when the desired nut is placed and all the nuts are in the bottom basket. When this occurs the gate can be opened and the emplaced nut slipped off aided by no notch.

No possibility of runaway nuts. I carry 30 nuts while climbing racked across 3 oval notchless biners.

same here ... the trick is to place the nut, set it, rotate the biner and then let the nuts bunch at the bottom before taking away the biner ....

for nuts i personally like

- notchless biners ... last thing i want is the notch catching when im placing a nut when hanging from a fingerlock ... those placements when you have to place right after the crux or where the entire climb is one big crux Tongue

- for "hard" (for me 11+/12-) trad climbs i place no more than 5-6 nuts per biner ... the last thing you want is to try to mess around with 10+ nuts per biner in said pumpy placement ... also the fewer nuts on a biner the less chance i find of dropping them when placing

- solid gate biners ... i find that for hard fast placements i can hold the biner easier and set em fast .... also should the need arise, ill have enough solid gates for a biner brake

but then each to his/her own ... unless yr climbing at yr very limit, anything will work ... and even then you just need to get stronger, well i certainly do, if something as minor as notches are preventing you from climbing hard

Wink


corno32


Oct 12, 2012, 7:43 AM
Post #7 of 19 (5193 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 7, 2012
Posts: 17

Re: [petsfed] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

petsfed wrote:
corno32 wrote:
hi

I use a wiregate carabiner with the usual keylock configuration at the moment to rack my BD and dmm nuts. It's annoying to have the nut wire catch the notch sometimes as I go to use them, I'd like to try a carabiner that's smooth without the keylock notch.

Anyone have a favorite carabiner that isn't a keylock that works well for racking these?

thx

You're confusing two terms:

A traditional hooked carabiner has a hook that hooks a pin in the gate, or the wire on a wiregate. A keylock carabiner (the term is trademarked by petzl) does not have such a hook.

I like the positrons. Others like the spirits. Personally, I prefer an oval for my nuts, because they don't bunch together as much. To be honest, I actually prefer a traditional hooked carabiner because the nuts are less likely to spill off unexpectedly if the crab comes open accidentally.

Doh okay got it on the terminology thanks.

I like the oval idea, interesting on using a positron or spirit

thanks


corno32


Oct 12, 2012, 7:47 AM
Post #8 of 19 (5187 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 7, 2012
Posts: 17

Re: [patto] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

patto wrote:
No possibility of runaway nuts. I carry 30 nuts while climbing racked across 3 oval notchless biners.

Most of the rest of my rack are notched biners of phantoms and neutrinos. I'd slightly prefer light notchless but heliums are not cheap!

notchless ovals sound very nice, are you talking about something like the aluminum smc ?



I can't find any other notchless ovals

thanks


rocknice2


Oct 12, 2012, 7:48 AM
Post #9 of 19 (5186 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 1213

Re: [patto] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

patto wrote:
rocknice2 wrote:
I hate notched biners. The whole rack is notchless, with the exception of the 2 stopper racking biners. That little notch comes in handy for capturing runaway nuts.

If you are getting run away nuts then you are doing it wrong! (IMO) At no stage should the biner be open except when the desired nut is placed and all the nuts are in the bottom basket.

Your acting like accidents never happen. Should is the key word in your statement.

That notch can hinder or help.
It can bugger you if you don't remove the biner from the placed nut properly.
It can save a nut if you don't have all your non-placed nuts at the bottom of the biner.

Your right
As far as racking goes, to each their own.


csproul


Oct 12, 2012, 7:58 AM
Post #10 of 19 (5181 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1768

Re: [corno32] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

corno32 wrote:
patto wrote:
No possibility of runaway nuts. I carry 30 nuts while climbing racked across 3 oval notchless biners.

Most of the rest of my rack are notched biners of phantoms and neutrinos. I'd slightly prefer light notchless but heliums are not cheap!

notchless ovals sound very nice, are you talking about something like the aluminum smc ?

[image]http://www.columbussupply.com/images/products/rope/carabiner-nlaoc.jpg[/image]

I can't find any other notchless ovals

thanks
Hard to tell from the small picture, but those do not look like notchless to me.


patto


Oct 12, 2012, 9:29 AM
Post #11 of 19 (5147 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2005
Posts: 1452

Re: [rocknice2] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rocknice2 wrote:
Your acting like accidents never happen. Should is the key word in your statement.
.....
It can save a nut if you don't have all your non-placed nuts at the bottom of the biner.

I think you are misinterpreting the word should. Equally if you are belaying you should keep control of the brake side. Failure to do so can result in death.

I don't see how ensuring that all the nuts are at the bottom of the biner before opening it is a task where failure can be expected. I've placed thousands of nuts and haven't had a run away nut yet.

corno32 wrote:
notchless ovals sound very nice, are you talking about something like the aluminum smc ?

I can't find any other notchless ovals

thanks

I use KONG notchless, the old style ones made from round bar stock. DMM also make a nice oval called the Ultra O.


(This post was edited by patto on Oct 12, 2012, 9:34 AM)


TradEddie


Oct 12, 2012, 10:25 AM
Post #12 of 19 (5128 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 29, 2007
Posts: 164

Re: [patto] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

patto wrote:
I think you are misinterpreting the word should. Equally if you are belaying you should keep control of the brake side. Failure to do so can result in death.

No, should means something is desired or expected, must means something is REQUIRED. So if you are belaying, you must keep control of the brake side.

Anyway, I love Ovals for nuts, it drives me crazy if I'm using my partner's rack with his ultralight asymmetrical wiregate crap. I'd probably buy notchless if I needed new ovals, the notch has certainly saved me from dropping nuts, but it won't always do that, and in a tight space, it can cause frustrating snags.

TE


petsfed


Oct 12, 2012, 12:17 PM
Post #13 of 19 (5092 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 24, 2002
Posts: 8594

Re: [patto] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

patto wrote:
I think you are misinterpreting the word should. Equally if you are belaying you should keep control of the brake side. Failure to do so can result in death.

I don't see how ensuring that all the nuts are at the bottom of the biner before opening it is a task where failure can be expected. I've placed thousands of nuts and haven't had a run away nut yet.

I do it because I've had issues with carabiners getting unclipped while climbing offwidths, and I climb offwidths often enough that it was something worth getting concerned about. By and large, I don't notice the difference, and I actually switched back to notched carabiners (wiregates) for my cams because it just never came up.


acorneau


Oct 12, 2012, 12:35 PM
Post #14 of 19 (5082 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 2889

Re: [corno32] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

corno32 wrote:
notchless ovals sound very nice, are you talking about something like the aluminum smc ?

[image]http://www.columbussupply.com/images/products/rope/carabiner-nlaoc.jpg[/image]

I can't find any other notchless ovals

thanks

Those are notched-nose biners. This is an example of a keygate/notchless biner...




Petzl has their "OK" but only in locker form...




I'm sure there are more but those a the first two that came to mind.


Khoi


Oct 12, 2012, 3:00 PM
Post #15 of 19 (5033 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2008
Posts: 292

Re: [patto] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

patto wrote:
rocknice2 wrote:
I hate notched biners. The whole rack is notchless, with the exception of the 2 stopper racking biners. That little notch comes in handy for capturing runaway nuts.

As far as racking goes, each to their own really. Angelic But that said....

If you are getting run away nuts then you are doing it wrong! (IMO) At no stage should the biner be open except when the desired nut is placed and all the nuts are in the bottom basket. When this occurs the gate can be opened and the emplaced nut slipped off aided by no notch.

No possibility of runaway nuts. I carry 30 nuts while climbing racked across 3 oval notchless biners.

Most of the rest of my rack are notched biners of phantoms and neutrinos. I'd slightly prefer light notchless but heliums are not cheap!

Best price on the planet!

http://www.mec.ca/...clean-wire-biner.jsp

acorneau wrote:
corno32 wrote:
notchless ovals sound very nice, are you talking about something like the aluminum smc ?

[image]http://www.columbussupply.com/images/products/rope/carabiner-nlaoc.jpg[/image]

I can't find any other notchless ovals

thanks

Those are notched-nose biners. This is an example of a keygate/notchless biner...

[image]http://www.madrockclimbing.com/lib/resize.aspx?src=/img/up/OvalTech_020210.jpg&width=400[/image]


Petzl has their "OK" but only in locker form...

[image]http://www.petzl.com/files/imagecache/product_outdoor_slideshow_image/node_media/ok-2_9.jpg[/image]


I'm sure there are more but those a the first two that came to mind.

Petzl has their "Owall".

http://www.petzl.com/...g-carabiners-0/owall


acorneau


Oct 13, 2012, 5:55 AM
Post #16 of 19 (4982 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 2889

Re: [Khoi] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Khoi wrote:
Petzl has their "Owall".

http://www.petzl.com/...g-carabiners-0/owall

Bingo. I thought they had a non-locker oval but I missed it on the webpage.


louBlissab


Oct 13, 2012, 6:44 AM
Post #17 of 19 (4975 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 9, 2009
Posts: 51

Re: [corno32] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Petzl Spirits...just be careful not to drop all your stoppers when the gate opens.


guangzhou


Oct 18, 2012, 9:05 PM
Post #18 of 19 (4764 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 3389

Re: [louBlissab] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Yet another super important RC.com I never give much thought to.


dcfdrescue2


Oct 19, 2012, 11:29 AM
Post #19 of 19 (4698 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 28, 2009
Posts: 13

Re: [corno32] Non keylock carabiner for holding protection nuts? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

corno32 wrote:
patto wrote:
No possibility of runaway nuts. I carry 30 nuts while climbing racked across 3 oval notchless biners.

Most of the rest of my rack are notched biners of phantoms and neutrinos. I'd slightly prefer light notchless but heliums are not cheap!

notchless ovals sound very nice, are you talking about something like the aluminum smc ?

[image]http://www.columbussupply.com/images/products/rope/carabiner-nlaoc.jpg[/image]

I can't find any other notchless ovals

thanks

Rock Exotica makes some nice key gate oval biners

http://rockexotica.com/...arabiners/rocko.html


Forums : Climbing Information : Gear Heads

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?
$4.05 (10% off)
$4.46 (10% off)
$26.96 (10% off)
$17.95 (10% off)



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook