I've never been there but thought the same just based on the photo. CLEARLY NOT A GOOD LEAD FOR A NEW LEADER.

Someone tested the Ukrainian Gear4rocks cams and they all tested better than advertised. HOWEVER, with so many better choices (think Metolius, Wired Bliss, BD Camalots) why get them?

Would you trust your life to a product manufactured in a dysfunctional country bordering on Third World status?*

China? .... BD, Petzl, etc., etc.

I would any day as long as it has that CE Stamp.

What does it take to get a CE stamp?

China? .... BD, Petzl, etc., etc.

I would any day as long as it has that CE Stamp.

I would love to know the full story on those Aliens.

What does it take to get a CE stamp?

Well I dont know the "full" full story, but I know the important part. The important part is that the CCH postrecall Aliens had low quality control. Some people were falling on them and the maincable was pulling out of the head. The issue was that CCH did not have an appropriate solution for ensuring the solder fully penetrated its way deep into the head, which created a safe looking braze, but with critically low strength. If CCH would have done what Metolius does and proof test every sample, they would have caught that issue early on well before all those bad Aliens made their way into the market.

Legitimately or illegitimately?

Legitimately. USNavy confirmed what I'd thought, that there is no quality control requirement for the CE stamp.

Jay

You´re starting to trust what US Navy says?

There is naturally enough a quality management requirement for CE marking

Why not, I dident say anything incorrect. My proof is the CCH Aliens. They were CE certified yet just about everyone agrees they had complete shit quality control. I also recall being able to write your own CE certification and then testing your products your own standards. I think you mentioned that. Plus, it is well know that the CE logo is easily and legally defrauded. For example, you can put a CE logo on a box implying the item in the box is certified, but in fact the only thing that is certified is the box itself. Another example would be putting the CE logo on a product implying the product is CE certified for its intended use, but in fact it is certified for some bullshit non-related function such as non-toxicity.

You´re starting to trust what US Navy says?

I guess I succumbed to confirmation bias.

Jay

Naturally enough, the CE system has no meaning or relevance in the USA, no enforcement and may even contradict your own national standards. It is enforced at the point of entry to the EU or thhe point of sale within the EU (and EFTA excluding Switzerland).
You do have a national standards system for climbing equipment in the worlds largest industrial country don´t you, or don´t you bother and just parasitically use a system paid for by the Europeans?

You do have a national standards system for climbing equipment in the worlds largest industrial country don´t you, or don´t you bother and just parasitically use a system paid for by the Europeans?

To say that CE has no meaning in the US isn't quite right.

Well .... it's nice that the Euros pay for it. Here in the US, we tend to put our standards money into economically and systemically important stuff and leave the sports to whoever (if anybody) claims to run them.

To the extent that the EN norms are included in ISO, they're for international use by signatories. The US is a signatory and ANSI is a member of ISO. Here in the US we contribute some standards to ISO for stuff like networks, information interchange and medical equipment interfaces (I remember writing standards for computer graphics interfaces some years ago for ANSI and ISO). The Euros make valuable contributions for, say, wine and cheese origin labeling and the exact distance between soccer goals.

In a global world, standards promulgated by an area with 500MM consumers have global effects. ANSI has similar effects on the Eurozone. I suspect that the majority of manufacturers have aspirations to sell in the world's largest economic zones, so they have no choice but to comply. ISO is the global attempt to make sure that standards aren't simply trade barriers and that manufacturers aren't caught up in a maze of conflicting standards. ISO promotes global, uniform standards. To say that CE has no meaning in the US isn't quite right.

Given your background, I suspect you're familiar with the subject.

I never said CE has no meaning in the USA; however, I am saying it has no brand recognition. I am sure there are legal and technical meanings to the CE certification in the USA. However, the CE stamp does not insure that product works, it is a good product, or it is a safe product. There are thousands of CE certified devices in the USA that have been recalled for being unsafe. There are tens if not hundreds of thousands of CE certified products in the USA that are complete pieces of junk that do not function as intended. Accordingly, I strongly doubt many American consumers pick up a CE certified product and say, "oh, this is CE certified so it must be a good product."

This is because the CE mark is not a gurantee of functionality or quality. For example a kiddies toy can be a completely hopeless, non-functional, badly designed and incorrectly assembled product. As long as it isn´t going to poison/cut/choke your kids it passes.
For quality and funtionality etc we use other systems for example in Germany generally the GS system (which is admittedly pretty low in its demands). In the UK the "Lion" mark is used to show the toy manufacturer adheres to the guidelines and practices of the manufacturers association.
What the CE mark means in reality depends very much on what the directive (legislation) was intended to achieve, in some cases the requirements are minimal, in others they covers just about everything one could think of.

So in other words the CE certification only guarantees the product is safe? What about the little kids toys that were CE certified but recalled for being unsafe? Or the CE certified automotive tires that were massively recalled after multiple premature failures? A number of CE certified products have been recalled for safety reasons.

I think you answered you own question.