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Favorite carabiner for use with cinch?
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hazcat


Oct 23, 2012, 10:23 PM
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Favorite carabiner for use with cinch?
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I recently started using a cinch. I've been playing around with different carabiners to see what tends to work well with it. Trango recommends a pear locker, but I'm still curious if there are any specific carabiners that work particularly well with it. So far my favorite is the petzl Am'd carabiner but the autolock gate is kind of in the way sometimes, and it's heavy.

thank you


(This post was edited by hazcat on Oct 23, 2012, 10:24 PM)


redlude97


Oct 23, 2012, 10:45 PM
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Re: [hazcat] Favorite carabiner for use with cinch? [In reply to]
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bd pear or petzl attache flipped so the skinny end is on the cinch


USnavy


Oct 24, 2012, 2:10 AM
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Re: [redlude97] Favorite carabiner for use with cinch? [In reply to]
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I use the Petzl Am'D, but any D carabiner works. Locking belay devices such as the Cinch and GriGri are best paired with D carabiners rather than HMS carabiners, such as the Petzl Attache.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Oct 24, 2012, 2:11 AM)


Khoi


Oct 24, 2012, 11:50 AM
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Re: [hazcat] Favorite carabiner for use with cinch? [In reply to]
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My favourite carabiner for use with the Cinch, or any belay device, is the Simond Spider+BLC


Snag-free nose and no cross-loading!

I hate cross-loading with a passion - nothing to do with concerns for safety and everything to do with my tendency to be a control freak.


ncrockclimber


Oct 24, 2012, 12:34 PM
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Re: [hazcat] Favorite carabiner for use with cinch? [In reply to]
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GriGri 2.


theextremist04


Oct 24, 2012, 1:34 PM
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Re: [hazcat] Favorite carabiner for use with cinch? [In reply to]
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I use an Omega Pacific Jake Jr. right now, but I honestly don't think it really matters. Trango recommends a pear biner, but since the rope doesn't go anywhere near the biner I don't see why you couldn't use any kind you wanted as long as it locks. I've used the BD Positrons before and they work just fine.


Kartessa


Oct 24, 2012, 1:46 PM
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A pear like the attaché works great with nearly any belay device.


redlude97


Oct 24, 2012, 3:35 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Favorite carabiner for use with cinch? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
I use the Petzl Am'D, but any D carabiner works. Locking belay devices such as the Cinch and GriGri are best paired with D carabiners rather than HMS carabiners, such as the Petzl Attache.
IME the D end such as on a positron will catch on the ring of a cinch or gri that causes it to bind. Why would you say a D is best?


acorneau


Oct 24, 2012, 6:47 PM
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Re: [Khoi] Favorite carabiner for use with cinch? [In reply to]
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Khoi wrote:
My favourite carabiner for use with the Cinch, or any belay device, is the Simond Spider+BLC


Snag-free nose and no cross-loading!

I hate cross-loading with a passion - nothing to do with concerns for safety and everything to do with my tendency to be a control freak.


Looks very similar to Rock Exotica's new "WireEye" version of the Pirate lockers...




billcoe_


Oct 25, 2012, 9:46 AM
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Re: [hazcat] Favorite carabiner for use with cinch? [In reply to]
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I like to ensure that the biner has a large enough screw or twist gate that the device cannot get over the gate should any inattentiveness occur on my part that would allow the device to wind up on the gate in a potential cross load situation. I have 2 current favs for the Grigri, Eddy and Cinch: a Fixe and a HB and they are both modified D twistlock's.

This example I pulled off the net will illustrate my thoughts. Note how the screwgate covers and protects the gate. That they are fast and (relatively light) are secondary considerations to me.




USnavy


Oct 26, 2012, 1:47 AM
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Re: [redlude97] Favorite carabiner for use with cinch? [In reply to]
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redlude97 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
I use the Petzl Am'D, but any D carabiner works. Locking belay devices such as the Cinch and GriGri are best paired with D carabiners rather than HMS carabiners, such as the Petzl Attache.
IME the D end such as on a positron will catch on the ring of a cinch or gri that causes it to bind. Why would you say a D is best?
The Cinch will not bind on a standard D carabiner any more or less than it will on an HMS carabiner. I said a D carabiner is best because that is what D carabiners are designed for. HMS carabiners are primarily designed to be used with ATCs. They feature a gently rounding top so as to create a bar to block the ATC. However, that feature is completely useless for a device such as a Cinch and it only increases the chances of the Cinch inadvertently loading the nose. None the less, it does not matter, you can use an HMS carabiner, a D carabiner, an oval, a quicklink, whatever.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Oct 26, 2012, 1:49 AM)


acorneau


Oct 26, 2012, 4:28 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Favorite carabiner for use with cinch? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
The Cinch will not bind on a standard D carabiner any more or less than it will on an HMS carabiner. I said a D carabiner is best because that is what D carabiners are designed for. HMS carabiners are primarily designed to be used with ATCs. They feature a gently rounding top so as to create a bar to block the ATC. However, that feature is completely useless for a device such as a Cinch and it only increases the chances of the Cinch inadvertently loading the nose. None the less, it does not matter, you can use an HMS carabiner, a D carabiner, an oval, a quicklink, whatever.


You need to brush up on your carabiner history.

The "D" shape is a modification of the symmetrical oval shape to give it more strength by moving more of the load toward the spine and away from the gate.

HMS is short for Halbmastwurfsicherung, German for "half clove hitch" and describes the Munter/Italian hitch. The wide basket end of a pear-shaped HMS is designed for use with a Munter hitch.

Wink


bearbreeder


Oct 26, 2012, 6:10 AM
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Re: [hazcat] Favorite carabiner for use with cinch? [In reply to]
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any good locker will work ... its that simple ...

RC, being RC will no doubt tell you that if you dont use a certain biner you will die Tongue


USnavy


Oct 26, 2012, 9:20 PM
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Re: [acorneau] Favorite carabiner for use with cinch? [In reply to]
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acorneau wrote:
USnavy wrote:
The Cinch will not bind on a standard D carabiner any more or less than it will on an HMS carabiner. I said a D carabiner is best because that is what D carabiners are designed for. HMS carabiners are primarily designed to be used with ATCs. They feature a gently rounding top so as to create a bar to block the ATC. However, that feature is completely useless for a device such as a Cinch and it only increases the chances of the Cinch inadvertently loading the nose. None the less, it does not matter, you can use an HMS carabiner, a D carabiner, an oval, a quicklink, whatever.


You need to brush up on your carabiner history.

The "D" shape is a modification of the symmetrical oval shape to give it more strength by moving more of the load toward the spine and away from the gate.

HMS is short for Halbmastwurfsicherung, German for "half clove hitch" and describes the Munter/Italian hitch. The wide basket end of a pear-shaped HMS is designed for use with a Munter hitch.

Wink
Sorry, when I said that D carabiners are designed for that use, I was not specifically referring to use with a locking belay device. I meant they are designed to be used in applications where the load can appropriately be placed along the spine. Let me try to have a run at carabiner history. So, class X carabiners (oval) are often used for pulleys where the load must be applied evenly to both brackets in order to prevent uneven loading of the sheave, and they have also been traditionally used in aid climbing to prevent the biner shift noise that scares some climbers. Class K carabienrs are almost always used for via ferrata lanyards, and they are designed to withstand loading over an edge. They also have a reduced security locking mechanism to enable faster opening of the gate. Class D carabiners (directional) are often used in quickdraws or other applications where the user wants to fix one end of the biner to a sling permanently. Class H or HMS carabiners are used to create clove hitches as you said, but most commonly they are used in conjunction with plate belay devices. I believe you when you said they were designed for use with clove hitches, but in their current state, they are most commonly used with plate belay devices. Class Q carabiners are not actually carabiners, they are quicklinks, and they are used in specialty applications. They are very common in slacklining and highlinging. And lastly, class B carabiners, AKA D carabiners, are used in scenarios where increased strength is required, and where it is appropriate to force the load towards the spine of the carabiner. Most commonly, they are used on quickdraws, slings, and trad gear. Of course, that list is nonexclusive, the range of usages appropriate to one type of carabiner are endless.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Oct 26, 2012, 9:22 PM)


lofstromc


Oct 27, 2012, 5:46 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Favorite carabiner for use with cinch? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
acorneau wrote:
USnavy wrote:
The Cinch will not bind on a standard D carabiner any more or less than it will on an HMS carabiner. I said a D carabiner is best because that is what D carabiners are designed for. HMS carabiners are primarily designed to be used with ATCs. They feature a gently rounding top so as to create a bar to block the ATC. However, that feature is completely useless for a device such as a Cinch and it only increases the chances of the Cinch inadvertently loading the nose. None the less, it does not matter, you can use an HMS carabiner, a D carabiner, an oval, a quicklink, whatever.


You need to brush up on your carabiner history.

The "D" shape is a modification of the symmetrical oval shape to give it more strength by moving more of the load toward the spine and away from the gate.

HMS is short for Halbmastwurfsicherung, German for "half clove hitch" and describes the Munter/Italian hitch. The wide basket end of a pear-shaped HMS is designed for use with a Munter hitch.

Wink
Sorry, when I said that D carabiners are designed for that use, I was not specifically referring to use with a locking belay device. I meant they are designed to be used in applications where the load can appropriately be placed along the spine. Let me try to have a run at carabiner history. So, class X carabiners (oval) are often used for pulleys where the load must be applied evenly to both brackets in order to prevent uneven loading of the sheave, and they have also been traditionally used in aid climbing to prevent the biner shift noise that scares some climbers. Class K carabienrs are almost always used for via ferrata lanyards, and they are designed to withstand loading over an edge. They also have a reduced security locking mechanism to enable faster opening of the gate. Class D carabiners (directional) are often used in quickdraws or other applications where the user wants to fix one end of the biner to a sling permanently. Class H or HMS carabiners are used to create clove hitches as you said, but most commonly they are used in conjunction with plate belay devices. I believe you when you said they were designed for use with clove hitches, but in their current state, they are most commonly used with plate belay devices. Class Q carabiners are not actually carabiners, they are quicklinks, and they are used in specialty applications. They are very common in slacklining and highlinging. And lastly, class B carabiners, AKA D carabiners, are used in scenarios where increased strength is required, and where it is appropriate to force the load towards the spine of the carabiner. Most commonly, they are used on quickdraws, slings, and trad gear. Of course, that list is nonexclusive, the range of usages appropriate to one type of carabiner are endless.

You get a 'gold star' for today's impromptu lesson on carabiners.


billcoe_


Oct 29, 2012, 12:36 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Favorite carabiner for use with cinch? [In reply to]
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...and mad props for his copy-paste skillz...


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