|
bearbreeder
Nov 2, 2012, 10:00 AM
Post #1 of 26
(14777 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2009
Posts: 1960
|
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/..._climbers_have_f.php
im not sure whether the victims were "rock climbers"(not that it matters) ... but since it involves hazards close to crags, specifically mentioned sports crags, ill post it up anyways
it looks like relevant information to those climbing in the area ...
|
|
|
|
|
gblauer
Moderator
Nov 2, 2012, 12:39 PM
Post #2 of 26
(14733 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 4, 2002
Posts: 2824
|
super scary!
|
|
|
|
|
edge
Nov 2, 2012, 2:20 PM
Post #3 of 26
(14691 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9120
|
That's an incredibly flippant article considering that someone has passed from a bee attack.
Heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of the deceased.
|
|
|
|
|
jbone
Nov 2, 2012, 2:42 PM
Post #4 of 26
(14677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 30, 2002
Posts: 463
|
Camelback Mtn was the site of the very first few Phoenix Bouldering Contests, but those area's are now cluttered with houses and you can't climb there without the chance your gonna get chased out. As a result the majority of climbing that happens here is on the longer north facing walls which also is the perfect place for the bees to make their hives.
The expansion of the city has chased these bee's up Camelback to the only places they can thrive. We don't want to see people hurt but its the unknowledgable hiker who gets themselves in these situations. In Arizona, its common knowledge that the bee hives have been Africanized in our state and when you encounter them you must take it seriously even if it means abandoning your climb or hike that day. Those hikers or climbers who assume these risks in the face of danger are not making responsible decisions and as a result someone died.
This particular episode happened to a set of hikers not climbers, who were unfamiliar with the area and unwilling to appreciate the danger of bee's. It sucks when people die but short of putting police officers on the trail this will happen over and over again because people don't always make the right decision.
|
|
|
|
|
dynosore
Nov 2, 2012, 3:16 PM
Post #5 of 26
(14664 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 29, 2004
Posts: 1768
|
jbone wrote: Camelback Mtn was the site of the very first few Phoenix Bouldering Contests, but those area's are now cluttered with houses and you can't climb there without the chance your gonna get chased out. As a result the majority of climbing that happens here is on the longer north facing walls which also is the perfect place for the bees to make their hives. The expansion of the city has chased these bee's up Camelback to the only places they can thrive. We don't want to see people hurt but its the unknowledgable hiker who gets themselves in these situations. In Arizona, its common knowledge that the bee hives have been Africanized in our state and when you encounter them you must take it seriously even if it means abandoning your climb or hike that day. Those hikers or climbers who assume these risks in the face of danger are not making responsible decisions and as a result someone died. This particular episode happened to a set of hikers not climbers, who were unfamiliar with the area and unwilling to appreciate the danger of bee's. It sucks when people die but short of putting police officers on the trail this will happen over and over again because people don't always make the right decision.
Did I miss something? What did they do that was such a bad decision? It's not like they were up there poking a nest with sticks, they were out hiking.....
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Nov 2, 2012, 3:26 PM
Post #6 of 26
(14657 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
edge wrote: That's an incredibly flippant article considering that someone has passed from a bee attack. Heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of the deceased.
It's a blog (aka free reporting, aka garbage).
My condolences as well.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Nov 2, 2012, 3:29 PM
Post #8 of 26
(14653 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
dynosore wrote: jbone wrote: Camelback Mtn was the site of the very first few Phoenix Bouldering Contests, but those area's are now cluttered with houses and you can't climb there without the chance your gonna get chased out. As a result the majority of climbing that happens here is on the longer north facing walls which also is the perfect place for the bees to make their hives. The expansion of the city has chased these bee's up Camelback to the only places they can thrive. We don't want to see people hurt but its the unknowledgable hiker who gets themselves in these situations. In Arizona, its common knowledge that the bee hives have been Africanized in our state and when you encounter them you must take it seriously even if it means abandoning your climb or hike that day. Those hikers or climbers who assume these risks in the face of danger are not making responsible decisions and as a result someone died. This particular episode happened to a set of hikers not climbers, who were unfamiliar with the area and unwilling to appreciate the danger of bee's. It sucks when people die but short of putting police officers on the trail this will happen over and over again because people don't always make the right decision. Did I miss something? What did they do that was such a bad decision? It's not like they were up there poking a nest with sticks, they were out hiking.....
If that "article" is accurate, they were soloing a climbing route.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
jbone
Nov 2, 2012, 4:31 PM
Post #16 of 26
(14576 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 30, 2002
Posts: 463
|
I'd hope not to many folks are wasting their time in deep discussions with people who are unwilling to stand by their word.
Still, I'm willing to talk more about how the bee's on Camelback Mtn are a direct result of our overpopulation in the Phoenix area. The bee's would not be so aggressive if we did not overtake their habitat on a daily basis and intrude upon their livelihoods. Bee's are responsible for pollinating our crops and greatly improve crop yields as a result, yet we build our houses over their homes with no regard for them whatsoever. People wonder why without looking at themselves first. I can go on and on...
|
|
|
|
|
sonso45
Nov 2, 2012, 5:25 PM
Post #17 of 26
(14552 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 1, 2002
Posts: 997
|
From reading the blog and talking to folks on scene, they were hikers on the George Route, a mostly 4th class exposed hike well off the main trail. Bees have been active in that area of Camelback for years. People have been rescued and died in the same area several times. I stay away from certain routes because of them. They become less active in the cold, which isn't often in Phoenix.
One thing that may help to survive an attack on facial openings would be a mosquito net/head cover. Another would be to avoid killing or disturbing any of the bees and leaving the area immediately.
My condolences to the young man's family.
(This post was edited by sonso45 on Nov 2, 2012, 5:26 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
wonderwoman
Nov 2, 2012, 5:58 PM
Post #19 of 26
(14521 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275
|
Folks - this is a highly moderated forum, and a topic that unfortunately involves fatality. Picking apart grammar or having a dispute about the quote function does not really belong in this thread and such posts have been hidden.
Please be respectful. People have lost their lives here.
Much sympathy for those who have passed away in this particular bee incident and others.
(This post was edited by wonderwoman on Nov 2, 2012, 6:05 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
USnavy
Nov 9, 2012, 9:57 AM
Post #20 of 26
(14230 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 6, 2007
Posts: 2667
|
I am not surprised, I had to downclimb a route in South Dakota this season as I was being attached by wasps. I reached the first bolt and a ton of wasps popped out of a pocket and started attacking me. Being that the landing was dangerous, I had to downclimb 15 feet to run away while being attacked - it thoroughly sucked ass.
|
|
|
|
|
raystern
Nov 21, 2012, 11:13 PM
Post #21 of 26
(13905 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 6, 2008
Posts: 2
|
I wrote the article in question. No need to put "article" in quotes, because it is indeed an article. It's also not garbage, which should be obvious because it's the reason for this thread.
The family's loss in this situation is a horrible tragedy and my heart goes out to them. I could see how the article could be viewed as "flippant" if it had been written by someone with no knowledge of free-soloing or the area. But when I talk about the climber's anti-bee kit, I'm being 100 percent serious. I've free-soloed George Route to within 10 feet of a beehive (possibly the same beehive from which came the bees that nailed those poor kids). The Phoenix Parks department confirmed for me that the three young men had climbed up the first part of George Route. My free-solo four years ago took me much higher and further west. I am honestly concerned about what a free-solo climber might do when attacked by bees at Camelback or anywhere else. When I suggested swimming goggles and a face mask, I'm not being flippant -- I'm seriously considering taking those things when I go adventuring again at Camelback. I have to admit, though, this tragedy has taken away some of my zeal for free-soloing at Camelback.
Ray
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Nov 26, 2012, 5:00 PM
Post #22 of 26
(13687 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
raystern wrote: I wrote the article in question. No need to put "article" in quotes, because it is indeed an article. It's also not garbage, which should be obvious because it's the reason for this thread.
Since I was the person who both put "article" in quotes, and called blogs "garbage", I will explain myself.
First of all, I put "article" in quotes, because I'm not a journalist, but if that piece was written to the standards of professional journalism, I'm a pickled herring.
Second, I called blogs "garbage", because from the standpoint of actually getting news, that's what they are, imo. Blogs can be many things, including entertaining, thoughtful, and even enlightening (though some are little more than sophomoric crowing). But compared to properly researched and vetted, well edited articles, they are little more than gossip.
Simply my opinion. My earlier tone may have been more harsh than necessary, and if you felt it so, I apologize.
As for whether this side discussion has relevance to the topic, I would point out that clearly knowing the source of information is important in any serious discussion.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
raystern
Nov 26, 2012, 11:07 PM
Post #23 of 26
(13603 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 6, 2008
Posts: 2
|
I appreciate your thoughtful response. Allow me to help put our discussion in context and, at the same time, give a little more info about this bee attack.
The article you posted about my "anti-bee kit" idea was the 4th article I wrote on the bee attack.
I was the first news media outlet to break the story:
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/10/camelback_mountain_bees_on_the.php
The next day, seeing that some news media reports had screwed up and implied this happened on a hiking trail, just off Echo Canyon trail, I researched and published the following article:
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/10/camelback_mountain_hiker_dies.php
I made sure this second article would be useful to climbers like me. I wouldn't deem the article (a.k.a. "blog post") perfect, but the Phoenix Parks and Rec department spokesman complimented me afterwards for getting it right when other reporters hadn't.
A few hours later, also on Oct 30, police released the name of the victim, so I published another news blog article about that:
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/10/joshua_ruzsa_19_identified_as.php
Those three articles ran in our Valley Fever news blog, which is a great source of local news for Internet users. My main sources for these three articles were the Phoenix FD, Phoenix PD and the Phoenix Parks and Rec Department.
Because I was dwelling on this incident, a few days later I chose to publish the "anti-bee kit" article in the New Times Jackalope Ranch blog, which usually runs news about the arts world, but also runs "outdoors" articles. I published it in Jackalope because it was less "newsy" than what we normally run in Valley Fever.
I have put in a records request with the Phoenix PD to obtain the full police report on the incident. I plan to publish a Valley Fever article, (or "blog post," if you'd rather call it that), once I read that report. I will put the link in this thread after the post is published so y'all are sure to see it.
Later.
Ray
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Nov 27, 2012, 2:01 PM
Post #24 of 26
(13499 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
Good to know. Thanks, Ray.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
billcoe_
Dec 25, 2012, 1:24 AM
Post #25 of 26
(13050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4694
|
jbone wrote: I'd hope not to many folks are wasting their time in deep discussions with people who are unwilling to stand by their word. Still, I'm willing to talk more about how the bee's on Camelback Mtn are a direct result of our overpopulation in the Phoenix area. The bee's would not be so aggressive if we did not overtake their habitat on a daily basis and intrude upon their livelihoods. Bee's are responsible for pollinating our crops and greatly improve crop yields as a result, yet we build our houses over their homes with no regard for them whatsoever. People wonder why without looking at themselves first. I can go on and on...
Baloney, and you're clearly not a biologist....
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
