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PJ002
Nov 7, 2012, 4:39 PM
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I was wondering if it's possible to use, during rope solo, a grigri at the same time as a Silent Partner, on a SEPARATE line. The reason I ask is this: say during a fall, the grigri fails to engage because you're not completely vertical or the rope goes sideways or whatever. If this happens then the SP on the second line should engage.
However, for the SP to engage there has to be enough torque present on the line going through it. So even though the grigri fails to lock on line one, could it happen the there is enough friction going through the grigri (or around it, whatever the case may be) for it to slow you down just enough to prevent the SP from engaging, and then you're s.o.l?
I know knots are the way to backup an SP, but we were discussing whether a grigri already attached on a separate line could be the backup (or primary, or whatever) and the SP on a second line being the fail-safe.
That way no knots are needed, and also when ready to descend you use the already-attached grigri, and don't have to fiddle with attaching it up there. Also you can just take a break during the climb if needed, and hang on the grigri.
All hypothetical btw, we just could not reach a consensus whether the line going through the grigri could possibly interfere with the torque required to allow the SP to engage in the event the grigri doesn't lock. Thx.
(This post was edited by PJ002 on Nov 7, 2012, 8:36 PM)
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csproul
Nov 7, 2012, 5:46 PM
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PJ002 wrote: I was wondering if it's possible to use, during rope solo, a grigri at the same time as a Silent Partner, on a SEPARATE line. The reason I ask is this: say during a fall, the grigri fails to engage because you're not completely vertical or the rope goes sideways or whatever. If this happens then the SP on the second line should engage. However, for the SP to engage there has to be enough torque present on the line going through it. So even though the grigri fails to lock on line one, could it happen the there is enough friction going through the grigri (or around it, whatever the case may be) for it to slow you down just enough to prevent the SP from engaging, and then you're s.o.l? I know knots are the way to backup an SP, but we were discussing whether a grigri already attached on a separate line could be the backup (or primary, or whatever) and the SP on a second line being the fail-safe. That way no knots are needed, and also when ready to descend you use the already-attached grigri, and don't have to fiddle with attaching it up there. Also you can just take a break during the climb if needed, and hang on the grigri. All hypothetical btw, we just could not reach a consensus whether the line going through the grigri could possibly interfere with the torque required to allow the SP to engage in the event the grigri doesn't lock. Thx.
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dolphja
Nov 7, 2012, 7:27 PM
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csproul wrote: PJ002 wrote: I was wondering if it's possible to use, during rope solo, a grigri at the same time as a Silent Partner, on a SEPARATE line. The reason I ask is this: say during a fall, the grigri fails to engage because you're not completely vertical or the rope goes sideways or whatever. If this happens then the SP on the second line should engage. However, for the SP to engage there has to be enough torque present on the line going through it. So even though the grigri fails to lock on line one, could it happen the there is enough friction going through the grigri (or around it, whatever the case may be) for it to slow you down just enough to prevent the SP from engaging, and then you're s.o.l? I know knots are the way to backup an SP, but we were discussing whether a grigri already attached on a separate line could be the backup (or primary, or whatever) and the SP on a second line being the fail-safe. That way no knots are needed, and also when ready to descend you use the already-attached grigri, and don't have to fiddle with attaching it up there. Also you can just take a break during the climb if needed, and hang on the grigri. All hypothetical btw, we just could not reach a consensus whether the line going through the grigri could possibly interfere with the torque required to allow the SP to engage in the event the grigri doesn't lock. Thx. Are you talking about a TR or lead? Either way, this is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard.
+1 ... & it appears to be in complete relation  to the thread 28 down OR here http://www.rockclimbing.com/...s;page=unread#unread
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shimanilami
Nov 7, 2012, 7:31 PM
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I would only try it if I also had a Soloist on a third line to back up the other two.
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Kartessa
Nov 7, 2012, 8:12 PM
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It'll be better than nothing, but that's about it
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jeepnphreak
Nov 8, 2012, 7:12 PM
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That sounds a bad convoluted set up.
Would it not be easer to make some friends that will be willing to belay you instead?
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healyje
Nov 8, 2012, 10:21 PM
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First, this isn't a beginners' topic and so should be moved.
Second, it's helpful when talking about soloing to be clear to frame the context by making a clear distinction between lead, aid, and TR soloing
That all said your question of swapping a grigri for backup knots when TR soloing is a reasonable one though most folks who TR solo regularly don't use either. I'd search here and on supertopo.com for "TR soloing" and that will get you more of a sense of what's more commonly used.
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PJ002
Nov 9, 2012, 1:03 AM
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Thanks for the replies everybody. Yeah I meant TR, sorry about that. And for the record, I never thought that this combination was a good idea either, it was simply a topic of discussion I had with someone recently, and since I wasn't about to be the guinea pig to test this configuration, I figured I'd post it here.
I just recently started using a SP for solo climbing (and btw I do have friends to belay me, jeepnphreak, lol , but being able to go climbing on your own anytime you want is beyond awesome).
I use pre-tied knots on a second line as backup, whether using the grigri OR the SP for self-belay (the latter being safer obviously, but that big piece of gear jiggling right by the family jewels can be a pain, literally).
And yes, perhaps this doesn't belong in the beginner's forum, my apologies. If a mod can please move it, cool. My reasoning was that since I only recently began using the SP it was a noob question in that regards.
Thanks again for the replies, all.
(This post was edited by PJ002 on Nov 9, 2012, 1:06 AM)
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imageAK99
Nov 22, 2012, 7:53 PM
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I love how no one actually answered your question just talked crap, one after another, and then concurred with each other, and the ones that did respond ignored half the question. I have personally used a Silent Partner with a gri gri as backup, most individuals dont have experience with an SP hence ignoring half the question. TR and lead, TR is a no worries situation & lead if I ever was in a questionable position id tie a backup behind the grigri and move on, 2 years on a SP in chossy Alaska and never had a scare.
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healyje
Nov 22, 2012, 9:35 PM
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He is getting answered.
a) the SP isn't exactly optimal for TR soloing
b) If you are going to use it for TR soloing then sure, obviously you could use a grigri, but no one does because now you're getting pretty cumbersome, especially compared to two miniTraxs
c) Lead rope soloing with that combo? Yeah, again you sure could, but I sure wouldn't, but YMMV.
[ And are you saying you use that combo and put a knot behind the grigri as well? ]
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Marylandclimber
Nov 29, 2012, 2:46 AM
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It would probably be worse creating more things for you to worry about and tangles/clusters.
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shimanilami
Nov 29, 2012, 6:47 AM
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If you ask a stupid question, you'll get a stupid answer. (This is the essence of RC.com.)
Back up a GG with an SP on TR?!? I refuse to dignify this question with a serious answer. We're doing the OP a service by pointing out the absurdity of this approach. A serious reply would only mislead him to think this it might be OK. I, for one, want no part in seeing some guy kill himself, or worse, in creating a CF on my six year old son's warm-up route.
And if my sarcasm is too much for you, then perhaps we can kumbaya over a caramel pecan latte some time, or perhaps chai tea, if that's more your speed.
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PJ002
Nov 30, 2012, 7:24 PM
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Registered: Jul 23, 2012
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shimanilami wrote: If you ask a stupid question, you'll get a stupid answer. (This is the essence of RC.com.) Back up a GG with an SP on TR?!? I refuse to dignify this question with a serious answer. We're doing the OP a service by pointing out the absurdity of this approach. A serious reply would only mislead him to think this it might be OK. I, for one, want no part in seeing some guy kill himself, or worse, in creating a CF on my six year old son's warm-up route. And if my sarcasm is too much for you, then perhaps we can kumbaya over a caramel pecan latte some time, or perhaps chai tea, if that's more your speed.
The only stupid questions are the ones that are left unasked. Seems to me that as an experienced climber you would know this.
And about your "refuse to dignify the question" crap....this, ironically, is the perfect example of a "stupid" response, the one you were ostensibly trying to avoid. Because it seems clear that members post questions here in the beginner's forum to get answers they don't have readily available, obviously. The answers may be fairly obvious, on the other hand, to experienced climbers. But what's with the arrogance?
Because unless you woke up one morning suddenly knowing all there is to know about climbing, I am sure you yourself have asked a "stupid" question or two on your time.
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sandstone
Nov 30, 2012, 8:23 PM
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healyje wrote: ... for TR soloing then sure, obviously you could use a grigri, but no one does because now you're getting pretty cumbersome, especially compared to two miniTraxs...
No one uses a Grigri for solo TR? Bullshit. Plenty of people do.
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healyje
Nov 30, 2012, 8:34 PM
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You misinterpret - no one uses a grigri to back up an SP - you could, but no one does.
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