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The effect of humidity and rope storage
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ptlong2


Oct 11, 2012, 6:07 PM
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Re: [knudenoggin] The effect of humidity and rope storage [In reply to]
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Yes, new ropes. I've not read of drop tests done on dry vs. non-dry ropes that are otherwise identical and which have been subjected to equivalent controlled use/abrasion/ageing. That sounds like a lot of work! Even the UIAA study you are referring to did not perform any drop tests, making the conclusion that none of the various dry treatments provide a long-term benefit premature (as the authors themselves acknowledged).


USnavy


Oct 11, 2012, 9:16 PM
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Re: [ptlong2] The effect of humidity and rope storage [In reply to]
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ptlong2 wrote:
Yes, new ropes. I've not read of drop tests done on dry vs. non-dry ropes that are otherwise identical and which have been subjected to equivalent controlled use/abrasion/ageing. That sounds like a lot of work! Even the UIAA study you are referring to did not perform any drop tests, making the conclusion that none of the various dry treatments provide a long-term benefit premature (as the authors themselves acknowledged).
Well, it sounds like the dry treatment may be good if I want to project a 5.13 move right out of the belay and there are no other pro options. Interestingly enough, you mentioned that the dry treatment increases the number of falls held, yet no manufacturer differentiates specifications between dry treated and non-dry treated versions of any model of rope they make.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Oct 11, 2012, 9:16 PM)


marc801


Oct 11, 2012, 11:01 PM
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Re: [ptlong2] The effect of humidity and rope storage [In reply to]
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ptlong2 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
The dry coating put onto ropes is mostly a gimmick. It works great when the rope is brand new, but with minimal use even the best dry coatings will wear off very quickly.

In drop tests dry treated ropes consistently hold more falls than otherwise identical non-dry ropes. There is also evidence that they are more durable.
Citation and link to the paper please.


ptlong2


Oct 12, 2012, 11:57 AM
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Re: [marc801] The effect of humidity and rope storage [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
Citation and link to the paper please.

Citation
the paper


marc801


Oct 13, 2012, 9:10 AM
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Re: [ptlong2] The effect of humidity and rope storage [In reply to]
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ptlong2 wrote:
marc801 wrote:
Citation and link to the paper please.

Citation
the paper

So in other words, since you're unwilling or unable to backup your statements, when you wrote:
ptlong2 wrote:
In drop tests dry treated ropes consistently hold more falls than otherwise identical non-dry ropes. There is also evidence that they are more durable.
....there is absolutely no reason to believe anything you say on the subject.


ptlong2


Oct 13, 2012, 4:48 PM
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Re: [marc801] The effect of humidity and rope storage [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
....there is absolutely no reason to believe anything you say on the subject.

No, there is no real reason. All I can offer you is heresay: a private communication with a well-respected individual in the industry who knows his ropes. It doesn't prove anything.

Nothing on this topic in this thread has anything substantial to support the opinions presented. Even the paper that knudenoggin mentioned left a lot unsaid -- they didn't even compare dry ropes with non-dry ropes in that study.

If you google a bit you'll find that Clyde Soles was saying the same thing on this topic (dry ropes hold more falls) about 15 years ago; not that that proves anything either.


bearbreeder


Oct 27, 2012, 12:36 PM
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Re: [marc801] The effect of humidity and rope storage [In reply to]
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ive never had a dry treatment last more than 1-2 months of daily use on fairly moderate climbs of say 10+ pitches a day, 4-5 days a week ... hell the dry treatment off my mammut phoenixes wore out in around 50 pitches in squamish, the rockies and yosemite ...

so if you want dry treatment for all yr climbs youll need to buy 1-2 new ropes per season assuming one goes climbing daily instead of having some intraweb fun on RC ...

the reality is that if you go out, and climb a lot, and arent one of those sponsored bums or rich yuppies ... your ropes wont be very dry at all ...

if however you spend all yr time doing virtual climbing on RC and go out the occasional weekend, they can be quite dry if you spend the $$$$$ for all that fancy stuff

Tongue


knudenoggin


Oct 29, 2012, 10:28 PM
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Re: [ptlong2] The effect of humidity and rope storage [In reply to]
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ptlong2 wrote:
If you google a bit you'll find that Clyde Soles was saying the same thing on this topic (dry ropes hold more falls) about 15 years ago; not that that proves anything either.

Weil, he seems to have lost enthusiasm for that assertion ca. 2004,
when he wrote The Outdoor Knots Book. There, he only mentions
a 2nd PTFE coating as giving some better initial resistance
to water permeation, and cites unimpressive testing results --to wit:
In reply to:
Recent [2004, mind] tests by the Italian Alpine Club showed that wet
ropes, even with a dry treatment, hold only one-third of the test falls
as dry [i.e., un-wet] ropes; the thinner the rope, the worse the
degradation. [p. 32]

Which, yes, leaves possible your claim of superior performance
(and just 1/3 of that when wet, but maybe still superior to the
non-dry-treatment ropes' count when wet).

*kN*


surfstar


Oct 30, 2012, 11:05 AM
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Re: [knudenoggin] The effect of humidity and rope storage [In reply to]
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Teflon coated double-dry ropes (core and sheath treated) held up to the sharp edge test (that is not official/used now) better. Perhaps that is where the "dry-treated = more falls" came from.


dynosore


Oct 30, 2012, 11:53 AM
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Re: [marc801] The effect of humidity and rope storage [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
ptlong2 wrote:
marc801 wrote:
Citation and link to the paper please.

Citation
the paper

So in other words, since you're unwilling or unable to backup your statements, when you wrote:
ptlong2 wrote:
In drop tests dry treated ropes consistently hold more falls than otherwise identical non-dry ropes. There is also evidence that they are more durable.
....there is absolutely no reason to believe anything you say on the subject.

As a polymer chemist I found this very believable, so I did a quick search.

"11mm Drycore™ rope that holds 11 falls dry, holds 7 falls wet. That
same rope without DryCore™ may hold only 3 falls when wet."

http://www.sterlingrope.com/...ument/techmanual.pdf


bearbreeder


Oct 30, 2012, 12:20 PM
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Re: [dynosore] The effect of humidity and rope storage [In reply to]
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how about a drycore rope that has seen heavy daily use for 1-2 months vs one with the same use but non-dry

IMO its quite useless to talk about about all this dry treatment unless yr basically using barely used ropes all the time ...

and for cragging its totally useless as you wont be cragging in the rain with wet ropes and taking factor 2 falls generally Wink


billcoe_


Nov 12, 2012, 2:29 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] The effect of humidity and rope storage [In reply to]
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Jim Titt answered this pretty good much earlier. So as long as we are speculating, let me say, and this is via conventional wisdom and circumstantial speculation but when I leave a rope in my basement, it just seems to stay drier.

Really.

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