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Ap328


Nov 12, 2012, 3:13 PM
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Question about Scarpa and La Sportiva sizing?
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I am looking to get some new shoes. I climb mostly indoors, and I would like a stiffer sole(midsole) & some moderate downturn without sacrificing too much comfort. I have researched for a quite a bit(more like a ton!) and would like some Scarpa Feroces.
I am also interested in getting some La Sportiva Solutions, and am curious what a good size for those would be as Moosejaw is having a sale. Maybe 40.5, 41.0, or 41.5?

My street shoe size is 9.5(42.5). I currently have some Scarpa Reflexes size 9.0(42.0), which I do NOT recommend even to beginners. They were tight at first, but have stretched to PERFECT fit except a little dead space in the heel. They were actually pretty decent at first for me, but are now mushy and low-performance. The TAC-100 rubber is just awful(slippery & no stick).Mad

Anyways I was just wondering if some people could shed some light on Scarpa sizing. It says half a size-2 down on their website for Scarpa. How do the Feroces size compared to the Reflexes? I heard the Feroces don't really stretch that much. Reflexes stretch about half a size.

I know I'm new to the forums, but any help on these two shoes soon would be much appreciated since I will be ordering online.

Thanks,
Alex

(This post was edited by Ap328 on Nov 12, 2012, 3:15 PM)


Gmburns2000


Nov 12, 2012, 3:38 PM
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Re: [Ap328] Question about Scarpa and La Sportiva sizing? [In reply to]
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Ap328 wrote:
I am looking to get some new shoes. I climb mostly indoors, and I would like a stiffer sole(midsole) & some moderate downturn without sacrificing too much comfort. I have researched for a quite a bit(more like a ton!) and would like some Scarpa Feroces.
I am also interested in getting some La Sportiva Solutions, and am curious what a good size for those would be as Moosejaw is having a sale. Maybe 40.5, 41.0, or 41.5?

My street shoe size is 9.5(42.5). I currently have some Scarpa Reflexes size 9.0(42.0), which I do NOT recommend even to beginners. They were tight at first, but have stretched to PERFECT fit except a little dead space in the heel. They were actually pretty decent at first for me, but are now mushy and low-performance. The TAC-100 rubber is just awful(slippery & no stick).Mad

Anyways I was just wondering if some people could shed some light on Scarpa sizing. It says half a size-2 down on their website for Scarpa. How do the Feroces size compared to the Reflexes? I heard the Feroces don't really stretch that much. Reflexes stretch about half a size.

I know I'm new to the forums, but any help on these two shoes soon would be much appreciated since I will be ordering online.

Thanks,
Alex

I have the feroces and absolutely love them. I recommend them, but as with anything, trying them on is always best. I usually try on shoes and keep going down until the honestly hurt. From there, I figure out stretch and go a bit bigger.

You have to think about this a bit because in relation to what you posted for shoe size (9.5 = 42.5), it's obviously different:

my sneakers say size 9 US and 42.5 euro on the label
my approach shoes say size 9 US and 43 euro on the label

Both are US-made shoes (saucony and five-ten)

My scarpas are size 41.

good luck.

edit: clarify


(This post was edited by Gmburns2000 on Nov 12, 2012, 3:42 PM)


Ap328


Nov 12, 2012, 4:04 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Question about Scarpa and La Sportiva sizing? [In reply to]
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Thanks for the quick reply. Well, I'm glad you like them a lot. That reassures me I chose a good shoe after all my researchingLaugh

Um, I don't like my shoes too painful really, maybe a half size up from pain if they do or don't stretch. I can take some which I did with breaking in my Reflexes. Actually now that I look, my Adidas shoes say 9.5(43 & 1/2) but I see what you are saying with EUR sizing variation ... so my 42 Reflexes would fit into the .5-2 downsize category well. I don't really have a place close to try them on, and the store I'm talking about can only order them in for me/doesn't have them in store to try on.

Scarpa runs pretty consistently right? So I think a 42.0 might be good unless this model runs a bit larger. How much would you say yours have stretched? Just curious what other climbing shoes do you have? I'm pretty new to climbing, but I climb a lot. My footwork is probably okay for a new climber. Scarpas give me that made to last quality feeling. Thanks for your help! Anyone else have other experience with this shoe or the Solutions?

Editing is weak?

(This post was edited by Ap328 on Nov 12, 2012, 4:06 PM)


rocknice2


Nov 12, 2012, 4:16 PM
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Shoes are only as good as their fit. Best to try them on before you buy them. Second best is find an online company that will ship you 3 sizes and then return 2 that you don't want.


Gmburns2000


Nov 12, 2012, 4:18 PM
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Ap328 wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply. Well, I'm glad you like them a lot. That reassures me I chose a good shoe after all my researchingLaugh

Um, I don't like my shoes too painful really, maybe a half size up from pain if they do or don't stretch. I can take some which I did with breaking in my Reflexes. Actually now that I look, my Adidas shoes say 9.5(43 & 1/2) but I see what you are saying with EUR sizing variation ... so my 42 Reflexes would fit into the .5-2 downsize category well. I don't really have a place close to try them on, and the store I'm talking about can only order them in for me/doesn't have them in store to try on.

Scarpa runs pretty consistently right? So I think a 42.0 might be good unless this model runs a bit larger. How much would you say yours have stretched? Just curious what other climbing shoes do you have? I'm pretty new to climbing, but I climb a lot. My footwork is probably okay for a new climber. Scarpas give me that made to last quality feeling. Thanks for your help! Anyone else have other experience with this shoe or the Solutions?

Not sure how consistent they are. I don't trust consistency anyway. I used to wear the Sportiva Katanas but couldn't fit into the supposed same last they made as a laced version (barracudas). The Barracudas were really uncomfortable.

I'd just buy the shoes at the size you think and try to return or reorder them if it doesn't work. Maybe you can work directly with Scarpa. I don't know, but I'd try to find some solutions just in case.

My feroces haven't stretched that much. In fact, after I haven't worn them in a while they almost feel as tight as when I first bought them. The three velcro straps really helps to keep things tight, too.

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Editing is weak?

you have two posts, stick around and you'll learn.


Kartessa


Nov 12, 2012, 4:34 PM
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Ap328 wrote:
I am looking to get some new shoes. I climb mostly indoors, and I would like a stiffer sole(midsole) & some moderate downturn without sacrificing too much comfort. I have researched for a quite a bit(more like a ton!) and would like some Scarpa Feroces.
I am also interested in getting some La Sportiva Solutions, and am curious what a good size for those would be as Moosejaw is having a sale. Maybe 40.5, 41.0, or 41.5?

The Solutions are anything but stiff and both shoes have a *very* aggressive downturn.

Maybe you should do some more research.


Ap328


Nov 12, 2012, 4:49 PM
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I think I'm going to get some 42.0s to try from Moosejaw where they are having a 20% off sale. They also have free exchanges as long as I don't wear them outside. That way I can go up or down in sizing for free.


granite_grrl


Nov 12, 2012, 4:56 PM
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Kartessa wrote:
Ap328 wrote:
I am looking to get some new shoes. I climb mostly indoors, and I would like a stiffer sole(midsole) & some moderate downturn without sacrificing too much comfort. I have researched for a quite a bit(more like a ton!) and would like some Scarpa Feroces.
I am also interested in getting some La Sportiva Solutions, and am curious what a good size for those would be as Moosejaw is having a sale. Maybe 40.5, 41.0, or 41.5?

The Solutions are anything but stiff and both shoes have a *very* aggressive downturn.

Maybe you should do some more research.

That's kinda what I was thinking.

I think you might have a hard time going from a low end show like the Reflexes to something really down turned like the Feroces, or especially something like the Solutions.

These shoes are designed to really concentrate the power from your foot for climbing on overhangs. To make the most of these shoes you will need a snug fit. It takes some time of stuffing your feet into small shoes to get used to it and have a "comfortable" fit that is actually tight enough to take advantage of these shoes.

A shoe like the Katana might be a better shoe for what you're looking for (assuming that they fit). They are a good all arounder that you should still be able to fit comfortably. You might also want to look at the Forces (though I much prefer my Katanas for overhanging routes and generally leave my Forces for vertical terrain, YMMV).

And of course if you still want these more aggressive shoe, by all means buy them. But you should try them on first and think about their fit in terms of their function and if you can get away with wearing them as loose as you're hoping to.


Gmburns2000


Nov 12, 2012, 5:14 PM
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granite_grrl wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
Ap328 wrote:
I am looking to get some new shoes. I climb mostly indoors, and I would like a stiffer sole(midsole) & some moderate downturn without sacrificing too much comfort. I have researched for a quite a bit(more like a ton!) and would like some Scarpa Feroces.
I am also interested in getting some La Sportiva Solutions, and am curious what a good size for those would be as Moosejaw is having a sale. Maybe 40.5, 41.0, or 41.5?

The Solutions are anything but stiff and both shoes have a *very* aggressive downturn.

Maybe you should do some more research.

That's kinda what I was thinking.

I think you might have a hard time going from a low end show like the Reflexes to something really down turned like the Feroces, or especially something like the Solutions.

These shoes are designed to really concentrate the power from your foot for climbing on overhangs. To make the most of these shoes you will need a snug fit. It takes some time of stuffing your feet into small shoes to get used to it and have a "comfortable" fit that is actually tight enough to take advantage of these shoes.

A shoe like the Katana might be a better shoe for what you're looking for (assuming that they fit). They are a good all arounder that you should still be able to fit comfortably. You might also want to look at the Forces (though I much prefer my Katanas for overhanging routes and generally leave my Forces for vertical terrain, YMMV).

And of course if you still want these more aggressive shoe, by all means buy them. But you should try them on first and think about their fit in terms of their function and if you can get away with wearing them as loose as you're hoping to.

I agree with this, and almost suggested the katanas to him considering the feroces and katanas are both excellent fits for me. I didn't because I figured he knew what he wanted to get.

However, I also wear my Feroces for all terrain because, quite simply, that's what feels best on my foot and I feel most confident in. So for me, the Feroces work both at the 'Gunks / North Conway and at Rumney (cue Jake's response that they suck because they obviously don't work for me at Rumney - GU'D!!!)


Ap328


Nov 12, 2012, 5:15 PM
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I know the Solutions are softer and more (very)aggressive, but have the same Vibram XS Grip 2 rubber as the Feroces. I heard the Feroces were less aggressive, but wasn't quite sure on that point. I have done my research. I wasn't trying to say I would get either the Feroces or Solutions, but maybe both. I haven't started climbing outdoors yet but I might want some Solutions for in the future for hard bouldering when I get there. Ha! ...and maybe indoor comps at my college for fun. I want the Feroces for a little more comfort and all-around climbing, though I have heard both are good for all-round comfort.

(This post was edited by Ap328 on Nov 12, 2012, 5:19 PM)


Ap328


Nov 12, 2012, 5:27 PM
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Edit:
Crap, I meant all-around performance. Not comfort. I know you have to size the Solutions very tight to get the performance because that is how the shoe was designed, which can be uncomfortable of course. I want the fit of the Feroces to be just a little more comfortable but still very snug, however, for longer wear as I climb for several hours sometimes. As I said, I would save the Solutions for harder problems I think...


redlude97


Nov 12, 2012, 5:29 PM
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Feroces for indoor climbing? Really? That is some expensive rubber to be wasting. I have feroces that are reserved for hard sport and bouldering outdoors only. They aren't exactly comfortable and I don't wear them for more than 20mins at a time if I can help it. Inside I use Forces or Thunders since they were pretty cheap, and Vapor V's as my all around semi-aggressive shoe. Look at the vapors Vs or Boostics instead. I wear the same size in all my scarpas


Ap328


Nov 12, 2012, 5:44 PM
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Thank you for your input! The shoes I am looking for are an aggressive to semi-aggressive design. I feel the Solutions are probably too unwieldy for my skill right now. Haha! I looked at the Vapor V's and the Boostics. I read they were a bit softer, and didn't look as durable or tight fitting as the Feroces. I understand they are expensive, but after my last crappy shoes I want performance along with quality & a bit of comfort. Moosejaw has no more Boostics after the price drop today, lol. Great to hear you wear the same size in all your Scarpas.
Are the the Solutions and Feroces similar in performance(or similar performing style)?


redlude97


Nov 12, 2012, 5:57 PM
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Ap328 wrote:
Thank you for your input! The shoes I am looking for are an aggressive to semi-aggressive design. I feel the Solutions are probably too unwieldy for my skill right now. Haha! I looked at the Vapor V's and the Boostics. I read they were a bit softer, and didn't look as durable or tight fitting as the Feroces. I understand they are expensive, but after my last crappy shoes I want performance along with quality & a bit of comfort. Moosejaw has no more Boostics after the price drop today, lol. Great to hear you wear the same size in all your Scarpas.
Are the the Solutions and Feroces similar in performance(or similar performing style)?
I've never worn solutions because they don't quite fit my feet correctly(wide toebox) While I wear the same size in all my scarpas, they fit differently for their intended purpose. The feroces in the same size didn;t stretch and toes are crammed to the max, but can edge on anything and work well on steep terrain, while the forces and thunders after stretching only cause slight curling, whereas the vapor v falls in the middle. I can wear the forces/thunders for hours, while the vapors for up to an hour, and the feroces for 20 mins or so. You don't want to size the feroces big though or they lose their effectiveness due to the toebox shape.


Ap328


Nov 12, 2012, 6:08 PM
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Ok, well when I got my Reflexes as a 9.0 they were super tight, but they stretched some to a perfect fit. As I have read and now heard from this thread, the Feroces don't really stretch at all. I'm wondering if the 9.0 Feroces will be just a tad more roomy at 9.0 than my Reflexes since they are down turned. If I try 9s and they are super uncomfortably tight though I can just upgrade the size to a 9.5. I realize I don't want to go to big though since performance would definitely suffer.


Kartessa


Nov 13, 2012, 5:59 AM
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Why do you hate on the reflexes so much? They are a great shoe for what they are: a flat, inexpensive, board lasted, full-leather shoe. Straight out of the box you'll get the same thing as most other shoes: tight fit and sharp edges, and this will make you feel solid on most gym holds.

The problem you're experiencing, and this will happen with any shoe you buy, is that your shoddy footwork has worn down the edges along with a little stretching in the leather - this is going to happen with any shoes you buy at this stage. Buy fancy down turned shoes and if you keep muscling up with your upper body rather than paying attention to your feet, the fancy edge will go and you will be back on here in 6 months asking how to size the futuras. Keep in mind Chris Sharma used Moccasyms through most of his bouldering career... It's not the shoe, it's you.

I would almost suggest you go to a pair of 5.10 Anasazis or Evolv Pontas, they're cheaper and have 0 stretch.

Just don't claim you've done research when all you've really done is convinced yourself to buy something thats on sale.


Gmburns2000


Nov 13, 2012, 7:13 AM
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But Money...




Kartessa


Nov 13, 2012, 7:55 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
But Money...


omahgahhhd... Its on sale? I wantz it!



These are down to $60 at MEC... I should totally get a pair to help me climb harder.


Ap328


Nov 13, 2012, 2:45 PM
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Ok, I don't hate exactly hate them as you put it. I would say they seem to be very durable/good quality and comfortable even if sized very tight, which is what I hear of Scarpa in general. The leather of course conforms to your foot and stretches. Straight out of the box they were okay stiff-wise, but not even climbing in them too long has made them a little too flexible for my liking... though it is usually several hours when I do go the wall to climb or boulder. I will probably use them for leisure climbing still. They are just lower performing than I thought with the broken in midsole stiffness. I didn't research at all really for my first shoe... My only other quarrel is with the TAC-100 sole. It won't stick to anything for me. I have slipped off a couple starting holds bouldering/dynoing and smacked my knees once or twice, which isn't fun.

I feel just starting with a beginner I shouldn't go to something like the Solutions just yet... or at all if I find they don't feet my feet right when I try them some day. Futuras, nah. I have read about those and am not interested.

Our college rents out some cheaper model Evolv's for free when we climb, which is what I first used. I can't stand the smell. Some probably smell less than others, but still I have a friend who has the Pontas and the Shamans.

The guy who runs the wall at our college has some beat up Anasazi VCSs, Solutions, and also some 5.10 Teams along with many others in his quiver probably that I haven't seen him wear or heard about.

I'm hoping I won't be getting shoes again that quickly. I'm not saying I have great foot work at all; but according to a couple more experienced climbers than I, I focus on my feet more than most beginning climbers.

I'm not only buying something that is on sale, but even if it doesn't work out(the Feroces) I can always return them. Worth a try on the fit and sizing as they are supposed to be really great shoes.

No, I am not as experienced as you or probably anyone on here. That's why I am coming for help. But I do have a lot more knowledge now of all brands and models of shoes than I did a week or two ago. My roommate has even told me to stop looking at climbing shoes so much daily & just buy some.

And for reference I don't buy into hype, too often. Everyone does to a certain degree. Funny examples include iPhone(ha) and Beats(smh). iPhone is just preference of using iOS I guess though. All about personal preference instead of hype in my opinion...


gunkiemike


Nov 13, 2012, 4:31 PM
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Kartessa wrote:
Why do you hate on the reflexes so much? They are a great shoe for what they are: a flat, inexpensive, board lasted, full-leather shoe.

Have the Reflexes been re-designed? Because I have a pair - they are probably 8 years old now - and they are most definitely SLIP LASTED.


granite_grrl


Nov 13, 2012, 4:35 PM
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gunkiemike wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
Why do you hate on the reflexes so much? They are a great shoe for what they are: a flat, inexpensive, board lasted, full-leather shoe.

Have the Reflexes been re-designed? Because I have a pair - they are probably 8 years old now - and they are most definitely SLIP LASTED.

Yeah, now ones came out a couple of years ago. NOTHING like the old ones.

I've got two pairs of the old ones kicking around. I keep thinking I should revive them but I prefer softer shoes now.


bearbreeder


Nov 13, 2012, 7:07 PM
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1 - what "grade" are you climbing in the gym

2 - are you doing steep overhands mostly ... or those super crimpy vertical climbs with micro rounded foot holds

3 - how accurate is your footwork ... does it make ANY noise or scrape the wall

IMO if you arent climbing at a fairly high grade, or the footholds on the routes you do arent basically coin edges ... just get a good cheap pair of well fitting shoes ... youll wear them out anyways pretty fast as a beginner

holds in the gym are generally big enough that until you reach the 5.11+/12- it doesnt really matter ... and even then its generally not the shoes holding you back

one weakness ive noticed in beginners who go out and buy stiff $$$$ downturned shoes is that they dont strengthen their feet and toes very much ... and when they go outside on long multis or less than overhanging smeary footwork climbs, they complain about their weakness ...


Ap328


Nov 13, 2012, 8:02 PM
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I'm not sure on the grades, so I can't help you there. Unsure
I have started climbing steep overhangs yet, but want to get to that point sometime. I do routes with small micro edges more often I would say.
My footwork isn't sublime or anything(I probably do make noise with my feet, not sure), but I don't scrape the wall a lot though unless I'm dynoing then toeing the wall or doing a pull-up.
I understand shoes won't magically make me a better climber I have to get a stronger upper body(especially), lower body, and core... It's way more about me and my climbing skills than shoes, but from my understanding shoes can help promote progression through the grades too.

Thanks for your insight. What are the grades of routes in general? like 5.8a - 5.12c and V12... I don't know about those things yet, but would like to learn about the ratings.


Kartessa


Nov 13, 2012, 8:29 PM
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Ap328 wrote:
I'm not sure on the grades, so I can't help you there. Unsure
I have started climbing steep overhangs yet, but want to get to that point sometime. I do routes with small micro edges more often I would say.
My footwork isn't sublime or anything(I probably do make noise with my feet, not sure), but I don't scrape the wall a lot though unless I'm dynoing then toeing the wall or doing a pull-up.
I understand shoes won't magically make me a better climber I have to get a stronger upper body(especially), lower body, and core... It's way more about me and my climbing skills than shoes, but from my understanding shoes can help promote progression through the grades too.

Thanks for your insight. What are the grades of routes in general? like 5.8a - 5.12c and V12... I don't know about those things yet, but would like to learn about the ratings.

Who am I to say you shouldn't be spending tons of cash on shoes that are way above your grade.

I'm not your mom... have fun blowing your money.

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