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Mount Nemo bolts Smashed?
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Parkerkat


Nov 12, 2012, 11:29 AM
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Mount Nemo bolts Smashed?
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Hi all,

I've read some very minimal reports about bolts being smashed at mount Nemo. The story I've heard is this: someone just moved to the area and felt that their personal ethics trump those of the local community and has gone ahead and smashed/chopped the anchors/bolts from from a number of climbs without asking the local bolters/acces groups.

My main fear is that he didn't go ahead and smash every single bolt and considering the proximity to Toronto, we know there will be a number of climbers that show up with little experience or forethought to check that the route is still equiped - leading some people up the climb only to realize they're 20 feet up with nothing to clip...

Anyways, also curious to see if this individual has the balls to stand up and explain his actions. Perhaps he has a perfectly valid explanation for all of this - so pipe up pal.

To those who may not know... Mount Nemo is a wonderful place that has managed to seamlessly bridge the trad/sport gap and become a place all people can climb in peace in the style that they choose...so its a shame to me if some moron wants to manufacture a debate that seems to home come to peace with itself years ago.

And for those who are more versed in this kind of thing...am I correct is saying it is not appropriate to move somewhere and start chopping without first speaking with those who bolted or oversee the area?

Just seems so out of the blue...curious what I have right and what I have wrong here - happy to be corrected, I absolutely do not know the full story!


Kartessa


Nov 12, 2012, 2:49 PM
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Re: [Parkerkat] Mount Nemo bolts Smashed? [In reply to]
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From what I understand is that the dude has been living here for a few years and had talked about doing this - with people telling him its a bad idea... So the guy is a douchy but bar who knows better but doesn't give a damn.

Most of the routes in question were bolted after the latest guidebook, and aren't on the online guide, so there isn't much risk of n00bs showing up from the city with these specific routes in mind.


granite_grrl


Nov 12, 2012, 4:33 PM
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Re: [Parkerkat] Mount Nemo bolts Smashed? [In reply to]
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I don't know how this rumor of him being new to the area started but you're the second person I've heard it from. My understanding is that he has lived and climbed here for quite a few years. I'm not sure exactally how long but long enough that I would say he is an Ontario climber.

Second the bolts were chopped, not smashed in some sort of rage. They've actually been patched too as he's trying to return them to their previous state.

The routes in question have recently been retrobolted. They were in the old guidebook as gear lines and I have in fact been on them years ago before the bolts. They have been retrobolted with permission of the FAs and for the most part make better sport routes than trad routes IMO.

The choppers motivations seem to be mixed. While he does want the routes left as gear lines he has bolted routes himself. The prevailing theory is that he did not like the crowds that these newly bolted routes were bringing to the crag (or at least to that section of the crag, the other walls with higher concentrations of sport routes are usually far more crowded than the rest of the cliff....part of the idea of the retrobolters were to spread the crowds out a bit).

For more information log into http://www.ontarioclimbing.com. This is where the most current information is.


carabiner96


Nov 13, 2012, 10:48 AM
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Re: [granite_grrl] Mount Nemo bolts Smashed? [In reply to]
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granite_grrl wrote:
I don't know how this rumor of him being new to the area started but you're the second person I've heard it from. My understanding is that he has lived and climbed here for quite a few years. I'm not sure exactally how long but long enough that I would say he is an Ontario climber.

Second the bolts were chopped, not smashed in some sort of rage. They've actually been patched too as he's trying to return them to their previous state.

The routes in question have recently been retrobolted. They were in the old guidebook as gear lines and I have in fact been on them years ago before the bolts. They have been retrobolted with permission of the FAs and for the most part make better sport routes than trad routes IMO.

The choppers motivations seem to be mixed. While he does want the routes left as gear lines he has bolted routes himself. The prevailing theory is that he did not like the crowds that these newly bolted routes were bringing to the crag (or at least to that section of the crag, the other walls with higher concentrations of sport routes are usually far more crowded than the rest of the cliff....part of the idea of the retrobolters were to spread the crowds out a bit).

For more information log into http://www.ontarioclimbing.com. This is where the most current information is.

In summary...still a douchebag? Esp if they were bolted with the FA's consent.


redlude97


Nov 13, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Re: [carabiner96] Mount Nemo bolts Smashed? [In reply to]
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carabiner96 wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
I don't know how this rumor of him being new to the area started but you're the second person I've heard it from. My understanding is that he has lived and climbed here for quite a few years. I'm not sure exactally how long but long enough that I would say he is an Ontario climber.

Second the bolts were chopped, not smashed in some sort of rage. They've actually been patched too as he's trying to return them to their previous state.

The routes in question have recently been retrobolted. They were in the old guidebook as gear lines and I have in fact been on them years ago before the bolts. They have been retrobolted with permission of the FAs and for the most part make better sport routes than trad routes IMO.

The choppers motivations seem to be mixed. While he does want the routes left as gear lines he has bolted routes himself. The prevailing theory is that he did not like the crowds that these newly bolted routes were bringing to the crag (or at least to that section of the crag, the other walls with higher concentrations of sport routes are usually far more crowded than the rest of the cliff....part of the idea of the retrobolters were to spread the crowds out a bit).

For more information log into http://www.ontarioclimbing.com. This is where the most current information is.

In summary...still a douchebag? Esp if they were bolted with the FA's consent.
Its not that black and white unfortunately. FA consent is equivalent to the FAs bolting the route, I think most would agree to that. But, that still doesn't mean the line should have been bolted, since they clearly could have been climbed completely on gear. I don't think justification of spreading out the crowds is generally sufficient to allow bolting next to cracks


granite_grrl


Nov 13, 2012, 11:54 AM
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Re: [redlude97] Mount Nemo bolts Smashed? [In reply to]
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redlude97 wrote:
carabiner96 wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
I don't know how this rumor of him being new to the area started but you're the second person I've heard it from. My understanding is that he has lived and climbed here for quite a few years. I'm not sure exactally how long but long enough that I would say he is an Ontario climber.

Second the bolts were chopped, not smashed in some sort of rage. They've actually been patched too as he's trying to return them to their previous state.

The routes in question have recently been retrobolted. They were in the old guidebook as gear lines and I have in fact been on them years ago before the bolts. They have been retrobolted with permission of the FAs and for the most part make better sport routes than trad routes IMO.

The choppers motivations seem to be mixed. While he does want the routes left as gear lines he has bolted routes himself. The prevailing theory is that he did not like the crowds that these newly bolted routes were bringing to the crag (or at least to that section of the crag, the other walls with higher concentrations of sport routes are usually far more crowded than the rest of the cliff....part of the idea of the retrobolters were to spread the crowds out a bit).

For more information log into http://www.ontarioclimbing.com. This is where the most current information is.

In summary...still a douchebag? Esp if they were bolted with the FA's consent.
Its not that black and white unfortunately. FA consent is equivalent to the FAs bolting the route, I think most would agree to that. But, that still doesn't mean the line should have been bolted, since they clearly could have been climbed completely on gear. I don't think justification of spreading out the crowds is generally sufficient to allow bolting next to cracks

So they had support from the community, permission from the FA....what more do you want?

Also, we’re not talking obvious gear lines. These are face climbs on limestone.


redlude97


Nov 13, 2012, 12:08 PM
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Re: [granite_grrl] Mount Nemo bolts Smashed? [In reply to]
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granite_grrl wrote:
redlude97 wrote:
carabiner96 wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
I don't know how this rumor of him being new to the area started but you're the second person I've heard it from. My understanding is that he has lived and climbed here for quite a few years. I'm not sure exactally how long but long enough that I would say he is an Ontario climber.

Second the bolts were chopped, not smashed in some sort of rage. They've actually been patched too as he's trying to return them to their previous state.

The routes in question have recently been retrobolted. They were in the old guidebook as gear lines and I have in fact been on them years ago before the bolts. They have been retrobolted with permission of the FAs and for the most part make better sport routes than trad routes IMO.

The choppers motivations seem to be mixed. While he does want the routes left as gear lines he has bolted routes himself. The prevailing theory is that he did not like the crowds that these newly bolted routes were bringing to the crag (or at least to that section of the crag, the other walls with higher concentrations of sport routes are usually far more crowded than the rest of the cliff....part of the idea of the retrobolters were to spread the crowds out a bit).

For more information log into http://www.ontarioclimbing.com. This is where the most current information is.

In summary...still a douchebag? Esp if they were bolted with the FA's consent.
Its not that black and white unfortunately. FA consent is equivalent to the FAs bolting the route, I think most would agree to that. But, that still doesn't mean the line should have been bolted, since they clearly could have been climbed completely on gear. I don't think justification of spreading out the crowds is generally sufficient to allow bolting next to cracks

So they had support from the community, permission from the FA....what more do you want?

Also, we’re not talking obvious gear lines. These are face climbs on limestone.
I haven't seen the routes in question so I can't make an assessment on these particular routes, but were these R/X gear lines? I'm just saying from an outside perspective hearing that a route that has been successfully led on gear for years that is subsequently bolted for convenience doesn't seem that kosher, but every area is different. If that happened here those lines would probably also be chopped.


carabiner96


Nov 13, 2012, 12:10 PM
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Re: [redlude97] Mount Nemo bolts Smashed? [In reply to]
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redlude97 wrote:
carabiner96 wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
I don't know how this rumor of him being new to the area started but you're the second person I've heard it from. My understanding is that he has lived and climbed here for quite a few years. I'm not sure exactally how long but long enough that I would say he is an Ontario climber.

Second the bolts were chopped, not smashed in some sort of rage. They've actually been patched too as he's trying to return them to their previous state.

The routes in question have recently been retrobolted. They were in the old guidebook as gear lines and I have in fact been on them years ago before the bolts. They have been retrobolted with permission of the FAs and for the most part make better sport routes than trad routes IMO.

The choppers motivations seem to be mixed. While he does want the routes left as gear lines he has bolted routes himself. The prevailing theory is that he did not like the crowds that these newly bolted routes were bringing to the crag (or at least to that section of the crag, the other walls with higher concentrations of sport routes are usually far more crowded than the rest of the cliff....part of the idea of the retrobolters were to spread the crowds out a bit).

For more information log into http://www.ontarioclimbing.com. This is where the most current information is.

In summary...still a douchebag? Esp if they were bolted with the FA's consent.
Its not that black and white unfortunately. FA consent is equivalent to the FAs bolting the route, I think most would agree to that. But, that still doesn't mean the line should have been bolted, since they clearly could have been climbed completely on gear. I don't think justification of spreading out the crowds is generally sufficient to allow bolting next to cracks

I think it's very very different if the FA bolts the line versus someone later (heck, even the FA later) making the determination that the line would be better bolted after it had been sent on gear.

As you state below, though, I also don't know the routes and am making calls from my plush armchair.


redlude97


Nov 13, 2012, 2:11 PM
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Re: [carabiner96] Mount Nemo bolts Smashed? [In reply to]
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carabiner96 wrote:
redlude97 wrote:
carabiner96 wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
I don't know how this rumor of him being new to the area started but you're the second person I've heard it from. My understanding is that he has lived and climbed here for quite a few years. I'm not sure exactally how long but long enough that I would say he is an Ontario climber.

Second the bolts were chopped, not smashed in some sort of rage. They've actually been patched too as he's trying to return them to their previous state.

The routes in question have recently been retrobolted. They were in the old guidebook as gear lines and I have in fact been on them years ago before the bolts. They have been retrobolted with permission of the FAs and for the most part make better sport routes than trad routes IMO.

The choppers motivations seem to be mixed. While he does want the routes left as gear lines he has bolted routes himself. The prevailing theory is that he did not like the crowds that these newly bolted routes were bringing to the crag (or at least to that section of the crag, the other walls with higher concentrations of sport routes are usually far more crowded than the rest of the cliff....part of the idea of the retrobolters were to spread the crowds out a bit).

For more information log into http://www.ontarioclimbing.com. This is where the most current information is.

In summary...still a douchebag? Esp if they were bolted with the FA's consent.
Its not that black and white unfortunately. FA consent is equivalent to the FAs bolting the route, I think most would agree to that. But, that still doesn't mean the line should have been bolted, since they clearly could have been climbed completely on gear. I don't think justification of spreading out the crowds is generally sufficient to allow bolting next to cracks

I think it's very very different if the FA bolts the line versus someone later (heck, even the FA later) making the determination that the line would be better bolted after it had been sent on gear.
I agree those are different, and thats not what I meant if it wasn't clear. What I meant was the an FA retrobolting a route is essentially the equivalent of another party retrobolting the route with the FAs permission. But those are very different than it being bolted on the FA. Sorry if that was unclear.


carabiner96


Nov 13, 2012, 2:15 PM
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Re: [redlude97] Mount Nemo bolts Smashed? [In reply to]
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redlude97 wrote:
carabiner96 wrote:
redlude97 wrote:
carabiner96 wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
I don't know how this rumor of him being new to the area started but you're the second person I've heard it from. My understanding is that he has lived and climbed here for quite a few years. I'm not sure exactally how long but long enough that I would say he is an Ontario climber.

Second the bolts were chopped, not smashed in some sort of rage. They've actually been patched too as he's trying to return them to their previous state.

The routes in question have recently been retrobolted. They were in the old guidebook as gear lines and I have in fact been on them years ago before the bolts. They have been retrobolted with permission of the FAs and for the most part make better sport routes than trad routes IMO.

The choppers motivations seem to be mixed. While he does want the routes left as gear lines he has bolted routes himself. The prevailing theory is that he did not like the crowds that these newly bolted routes were bringing to the crag (or at least to that section of the crag, the other walls with higher concentrations of sport routes are usually far more crowded than the rest of the cliff....part of the idea of the retrobolters were to spread the crowds out a bit).

For more information log into http://www.ontarioclimbing.com. This is where the most current information is.

In summary...still a douchebag? Esp if they were bolted with the FA's consent.
Its not that black and white unfortunately. FA consent is equivalent to the FAs bolting the route, I think most would agree to that. But, that still doesn't mean the line should have been bolted, since they clearly could have been climbed completely on gear. I don't think justification of spreading out the crowds is generally sufficient to allow bolting next to cracks

I think it's very very different if the FA bolts the line versus someone later (heck, even the FA later) making the determination that the line would be better bolted after it had been sent on gear.
I agree those are different, and thats not what I meant if it wasn't clear. What I meant was the an FA retrobolting a route is essentially the equivalent of another party retrobolting the route with the FAs permission. But those are very different than it being bolted on the FA. Sorry if that was unclear.

Ah, yes, we're on the same page as far as that goes, but I guess I'll defer to GG that the climbs are better off bolted than not.


Gravitron5000


Nov 14, 2012, 10:23 AM
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Re: [Parkerkat] Mount Nemo bolts Smashed? [In reply to]
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Here's an article from Gripped magazine:

http://gripped.com/...amp;utm_medium=email

You'll have to create an account to see the thread at http://ontarioclimbing.com/...dex.php?topic=2184.0.


robx


Nov 14, 2012, 10:33 AM
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Re: [Parkerkat] Mount Nemo bolts Smashed? [In reply to]
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name names. I don't understand why everyone knows so much about this mysterious guy but no one will say his/her name.


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