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flesh


Dec 6, 2012, 10:54 PM
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What % tax is fair?
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With taxes inevitably going hire in the coming decade, what's "fair"?

With some upper income earners going to lets say 39% fed tax and when you combing state tax, 9-13% sales tax in CA or NY, property tax, gas tax, etc...... It will be possible to go above 60% soon.

So, what's fair?

Is 90% too much if you make 1 million per year? What about 60%?

At some point does Atlas shrug or Do the most successful do what they do no matter what taxes you throw at them?


USnavy


Dec 6, 2012, 11:18 PM
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Re: [flesh] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
With taxes inevitably going hire in the coming decade, what's "fair"?

With some upper income earners going to lets say 39% fed tax and when you combing state tax, 9-13% sales tax in CA or NY, property tax, gas tax, etc...... It will be possible to go above 60% soon.

So, what's fair?

Is 90% too much if you make 1 million per year? What about 60%?

At some point does Atlas shrug or Do the most successful do what they do no matter what taxes you throw at them?
I do believe that those who can afford to pay more should pay more. One of the largest issues is income distribution inequality. When I see stuff like this, I ask, "what has America come to:"







So I believe that all income above $150,000 should be taxed at a flat rate 50%, with the tax payer having no ability to hide the money from tax collection. No deductions for IRA accounts, no deductions for corporate spending, no deductions for anything, it is taxed, end of story, you're not getting out of it. Furthermore, I think any income earned above $10m should be taxed at 90%. There really is no reason for someone to have that much money, you dont need $1B to live will.

However, do you think S. Robson Walton really pays 35% of his many billions of dollars towards tax like he should? Fuck no, he probably only pays a fraction of that by hiding the money in various programs that allow tax deductions such as corporate write-offs for "business meetings" in Hawaii and other crap. That is what needs to change. If you are making millions, you need to pay your fair share, enough of this scamming bullcrap that lets you get out of your dues.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Dec 6, 2012, 11:20 PM)


Gmburns2000


Dec 7, 2012, 4:49 AM
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Re: [flesh] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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The United Nations Human Development Index has these countries in the top 10 (2011). The first number is the index score. The second is the corporate tax rate and the third is the personal tax rate (2010). This does not include things like VAT.

Norway 0.943 - 28% - 40%
Australia 0.929 - 30% - 45%
Netherlands 0.910 - 25% - 52%
United States 0.910 - 35% - 35%
New Zealand 0.908 - 30% - 39%
Canada 0.908 - 34% - 50%
Ireland 0.908 - 25% - 41%
Liechtenstein 0.905 - 12.5% - 29% (wiki)
Germany 0.905 - 33% - 42%
Sweden 0.904 - 26% - 57%

With the exception of Liechtenstein as the obvious outlier, the U.S. could lower corporate income tax and increase personal income tax. Somewhere around 30% for corporate and 40% for individuals would seem appropriate.

I got lazy and didn't include VAT for these countries, but I think you'd find that when you include it the U.S. has a remarkably low tax rate. For example, the VAT rate in Sweden is about 25%, but in the U.S. it varies from state to state with a low of 0% (product depending) with a high of 11% (Illinois) when you include surtax.

So, the tax rate in the U.S. could actually increase for individuals even more (increase it on individuals because they're less likely to move) and / or create a national sales tax.


guangzhou


Dec 7, 2012, 6:00 AM
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Re: [flesh] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
With taxes inevitably going hire in the coming decade, what's "fair"?

With some upper income earners going to lets say 39% fed tax and when you combing state tax, 9-13% sales tax in CA or NY, property tax, gas tax, etc...... It will be possible to go above 60% soon.

So, what's fair?

Is 90% too much if you make 1 million per year? What about 60%?

At some point does Atlas shrug or Do the most successful do what they do no matter what taxes you throw at them?

Fair doesn't mean everyone pays the same thing.

Actually, not sure if you read Atlas Shrugged or not, but you'll see two types of rich people in the book. The ones who deserved to be rich moved out of society and took their intellectual property with them. The others complained about the smart leaving them to fend for themselves.

Unlike some people on this forum, I don't believe all "rich" people are bad. I surely don't believe you should be penalized for earning a high income.

USnavy, if I make 150,000 USD a year and have to give up 75,000 in taxes, I now make 75,000 a year. Where is my incentive to work and become successful. Why would I want the stress of running a giant corporation that employs thousand of people when I could just be an ordinary worker making 90,000 USD a year.

Of the countries on your chart, which country has great industries when compared to America. Who can compete consistently across all the fields of industry.

Maybe you need to consider the innovation gap between the U.S. and the countries on your charts.

While I am not, I see nothing wrong with being motivated by money. Especially if those who are so motivated are creating jobs and products for other along the way.

How much tax is fair, I have no idea.


guangzhou


Dec 7, 2012, 6:09 AM
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Re: [flesh] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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I received the entirety of the below in a chain email. Will never pass through Congress but....

In reply to:
Warren Buffett, in a recent interview with CNBC, offers one of the best quotes about the debt ceiling: "I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC. "You just pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election

Seems fair to me.

In reply to:
The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That was in 1971...before computers, e-mail, cell phones, etc

Could we do this even faster?

In reply to:
Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took 1 year or less to become the law of the land...all because of public pressure.

Public pressure. Works in France. Remember what happened when the taxi cabs went on strike, they got what they wanted. Garbage-men refused to collect trash, within three days the public told the government to give them what they asked for.

In reply to:
THIS IS HOW Congressional Reform Act of 2011
1. No Tenure / No Pension.
A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.

2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.
All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12.

The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Father s envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.


veganclimber


Dec 7, 2012, 10:17 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
The United Nations Human Development Index has these countries in the top 10 (2011). The first number is the index score. The second is the corporate tax rate and the third is the personal tax rate (2010). This does not include things like VAT.

Norway 0.943 - 28% - 40%
Australia 0.929 - 30% - 45%
Netherlands 0.910 - 25% - 52%
United States 0.910 - 35% - 35%
New Zealand 0.908 - 30% - 39%
Canada 0.908 - 34% - 50%
Ireland 0.908 - 25% - 41%
Liechtenstein 0.905 - 12.5% - 29% (wiki)
Germany 0.905 - 33% - 42%
Sweden 0.904 - 26% - 57%

With the exception of Liechtenstein as the obvious outlier, the U.S. could lower corporate income tax and increase personal income tax. Somewhere around 30% for corporate and 40% for individuals would seem appropriate.

I got lazy and didn't include VAT for these countries, but I think you'd find that when you include it the U.S. has a remarkably low tax rate. For example, the VAT rate in Sweden is about 25%, but in the U.S. it varies from state to state with a low of 0% (product depending) with a high of 11% (Illinois) when you include surtax.

So, the tax rate in the U.S. could actually increase for individuals even more (increase it on individuals because they're less likely to move) and / or create a national sales tax.

The US corporate tax rate is not 35%.


lena_chita
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Dec 7, 2012, 11:14 AM
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Re: [flesh] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
With taxes inevitably going hire in the coming decade, what's "fair"?

With some upper income earners going to lets say 39% fed tax and when you combing state tax, 9-13% sales tax in CA or NY, property tax, gas tax, etc...... It will be possible to go above 60% soon.

So, what's fair?

Is 90% too much if you make 1 million per year? What about 60%?

At some point does Atlas shrug or Do the most successful do what they do no matter what taxes you throw at them?

You cannot lump sales tax with the income tax.

For the high-income earners, much of the purchases are of non-essential kind, whereas low-income people tend to pay much higher percentage of their income for essentials.

Nobody is forcing someone to buy a designer dress, handbag or luxury cruise. If they have the money, and choose to spend it that way -- totally fine. But if you do, you can't turn around and complain about being taxed on that purchase at the same rate as some low-middle-class head-of-household who is paying sales tax on her kid's school uniform, and hasn't bought a new item of clothing for herself in 12 months, because her entire clothes budget is being spent on the kids.

I do believe that there should be a higher sales tax on luxury items, and that the definition of luxury items should be expanded quite a bit, beyond just higher-end fancy cars.

And I also think that your numbers are meaningless. Nobody is paying even 35% of their income in income taxes, let alone 60 or 90%.

Mitt Romney's FINAL total tax rate is lower than mine.


Syd


Dec 7, 2012, 11:37 AM
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Re: [flesh] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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Whenever I drive through Canberra, our national capital I see all office buildings and think of all the hundreds of thousands of folk sitting at desks. My taxes are paying for them. How do these people at desks really help my life ? If we could do a Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy and put all the bureaucrats on a space ship to nowhere, and just leave the people who do "real" work, I feel our lives would be much better and taxes would be a small fraction of what they are now.


rmsusa


Dec 7, 2012, 12:50 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I do believe that there should be a higher sales tax on luxury items, and that the definition of luxury items should be expanded quite a bit, beyond just higher-end fancy cars.

You do realize that you're calling for a significant complication of an already way too complicated system? Sales tax is run by states, counties and municipalities. People who sell online incur big costs collecting and remitting those taxes already. More complication is a mistake. I think you're calling for another decade long debate about just what is a luxury item, putting off simplification again. I think it's a B-A-D idea, but that's just my opinion.


Partner rrrADAM


Dec 7, 2012, 12:52 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
Nobody is paying even 35% of their income in income taxes, let alone 60 or 90%.

Back in the early 90's, when I was single, before I bought a house, I was paying right at about that during years I made a lot of $$$.

I work with contractors who make bank, and they get about 45% deducted from their checks (total deductions), since they are making bank... Not sure of their year end accounting as far as deductions go, and most of them only work 6-7 months a year, like I did before I hired on at my utility full-time... I got the same rate (~45%) deducted, but I also had a lot of write offs, so my total tax rate ended up being about 25%.


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Dec 7, 2012, 12:56 PM)


chadnsc


Dec 7, 2012, 1:08 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:

And I also think that your numbers are meaningless. Nobody is paying even 35% of their income in income taxes, let alone 60 or 90%.

Look up Alternative Minimal Tax.


traddad


Dec 7, 2012, 1:26 PM
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Re: [Syd] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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Syd wrote:
Whenever I drive through Canberra, our national capital I see all office buildings and think of all the hundreds of thousands of folk sitting at desks. My taxes are paying for them. How do these people at desks really help my life ? If we could do a Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy and put all the bureaucrats on a space ship to nowhere, and just leave the people who do "real" work, I feel our lives would be much better and taxes would be a small fraction of what they are now.

I'm one of those people here in the US. I make sure that the citizens of my state know if fish from a particular lake are contaminated with mercury or pesticides. I make sure that the waters of my state are safe to swim in.
People from my agency make sure the water coming out of your tap is safe to drink. We make sure folks don't dump raw sewage in the streams and rivers...or in the street. We make sure you can go outside without a gas mask.
Yeah, I'm just a lazy, good for nothing bureaucrat. Go fuck yourself.


styndall


Dec 7, 2012, 2:55 PM
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Re: [flesh] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
With taxes inevitably going hire in the coming decade, what's "fair"?

With some upper income earners going to lets say 39% fed tax and when you combing state tax, 9-13% sales tax in CA or NY, property tax, gas tax, etc...... It will be possible to go above 60% soon.

So, what's fair?

Is 90% too much if you make 1 million per year? What about 60%?

At some point does Atlas shrug or Do the most successful do what they do no matter what taxes you throw at them?

Well, we've got direct empirical evidence that even a top marginal rate of 90% doesn't stop wealthy people from working or making money. From 1946-1963, one of the most economically prosperous periods of US history, there were 24 separate brackets, and the top bracket, income over 2.3 million (in 2012 dollars) was taxed at 91%.

So the answer to your question, at least for the highest marginal rate, is somewhere between 90% and 100%.

The effective rate will be lower, of course, and depending on total income, but still significantly higher than what we're paying now.


EDIT: Also, I suspect from your post that you don't understand how marginal rates work.


(This post was edited by styndall on Dec 7, 2012, 2:57 PM)


Gmburns2000


Dec 7, 2012, 3:18 PM
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Re: [veganclimber] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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veganclimber wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
The United Nations Human Development Index has these countries in the top 10 (2011). The first number is the index score. The second is the corporate tax rate and the third is the personal tax rate (2010). This does not include things like VAT.

Norway 0.943 - 28% - 40%
Australia 0.929 - 30% - 45%
Netherlands 0.910 - 25% - 52%
United States 0.910 - 35% - 35%
New Zealand 0.908 - 30% - 39%
Canada 0.908 - 34% - 50%
Ireland 0.908 - 25% - 41%
Liechtenstein 0.905 - 12.5% - 29% (wiki)
Germany 0.905 - 33% - 42%
Sweden 0.904 - 26% - 57%

With the exception of Liechtenstein as the obvious outlier, the U.S. could lower corporate income tax and increase personal income tax. Somewhere around 30% for corporate and 40% for individuals would seem appropriate.

I got lazy and didn't include VAT for these countries, but I think you'd find that when you include it the U.S. has a remarkably low tax rate. For example, the VAT rate in Sweden is about 25%, but in the U.S. it varies from state to state with a low of 0% (product depending) with a high of 11% (Illinois) when you include surtax.

So, the tax rate in the U.S. could actually increase for individuals even more (increase it on individuals because they're less likely to move) and / or create a national sales tax.

The US corporate tax rate is not 35%.

Search for the words "tax rate schedule"

http://www.irs.gov/...tions/p542/ar02.html

What people end up paying is irrelevant to the rate. If you want to judge what people actually pay then you're essentially saying it's impossible to calculate any tax rate.

I should have noted that the rates I mentioned are the highest rates for each country. And yes, people in Sweden pay 57%. I know this because I know several people who pay it.

Of course, those rates don't include state taxes.


styndall


Dec 7, 2012, 3:27 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
veganclimber wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
The United Nations Human Development Index has these countries in the top 10 (2011). The first number is the index score. The second is the corporate tax rate and the third is the personal tax rate (2010). This does not include things like VAT.

Norway 0.943 - 28% - 40%
Australia 0.929 - 30% - 45%
Netherlands 0.910 - 25% - 52%
United States 0.910 - 35% - 35%
New Zealand 0.908 - 30% - 39%
Canada 0.908 - 34% - 50%
Ireland 0.908 - 25% - 41%
Liechtenstein 0.905 - 12.5% - 29% (wiki)
Germany 0.905 - 33% - 42%
Sweden 0.904 - 26% - 57%

With the exception of Liechtenstein as the obvious outlier, the U.S. could lower corporate income tax and increase personal income tax. Somewhere around 30% for corporate and 40% for individuals would seem appropriate.

I got lazy and didn't include VAT for these countries, but I think you'd find that when you include it the U.S. has a remarkably low tax rate. For example, the VAT rate in Sweden is about 25%, but in the U.S. it varies from state to state with a low of 0% (product depending) with a high of 11% (Illinois) when you include surtax.

So, the tax rate in the U.S. could actually increase for individuals even more (increase it on individuals because they're less likely to move) and / or create a national sales tax.

The US corporate tax rate is not 35%.

Search for the words "tax rate schedule"

http://www.irs.gov/...tions/p542/ar02.html

What people end up paying is irrelevant to the rate. If you want to judge what people actually pay then you're essentially saying it's impossible to calculate any tax rate.

I should have noted that the rates I mentioned are the highest rates for each country. And yes, people in Sweden pay 57%. I know this because I know several people who pay it.

Of course, those rates don't include state taxes.

That's the top marginal rate, and so no one's effective tax rate is as high as 57%.


Gmburns2000


Dec 7, 2012, 3:40 PM
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Re: [styndall] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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styndall wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
veganclimber wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
The United Nations Human Development Index has these countries in the top 10 (2011). The first number is the index score. The second is the corporate tax rate and the third is the personal tax rate (2010). This does not include things like VAT.

Norway 0.943 - 28% - 40%
Australia 0.929 - 30% - 45%
Netherlands 0.910 - 25% - 52%
United States 0.910 - 35% - 35%
New Zealand 0.908 - 30% - 39%
Canada 0.908 - 34% - 50%
Ireland 0.908 - 25% - 41%
Liechtenstein 0.905 - 12.5% - 29% (wiki)
Germany 0.905 - 33% - 42%
Sweden 0.904 - 26% - 57%

With the exception of Liechtenstein as the obvious outlier, the U.S. could lower corporate income tax and increase personal income tax. Somewhere around 30% for corporate and 40% for individuals would seem appropriate.

I got lazy and didn't include VAT for these countries, but I think you'd find that when you include it the U.S. has a remarkably low tax rate. For example, the VAT rate in Sweden is about 25%, but in the U.S. it varies from state to state with a low of 0% (product depending) with a high of 11% (Illinois) when you include surtax.

So, the tax rate in the U.S. could actually increase for individuals even more (increase it on individuals because they're less likely to move) and / or create a national sales tax.

The US corporate tax rate is not 35%.

Search for the words "tax rate schedule"

http://www.irs.gov/...tions/p542/ar02.html

What people end up paying is irrelevant to the rate. If you want to judge what people actually pay then you're essentially saying it's impossible to calculate any tax rate.

I should have noted that the rates I mentioned are the highest rates for each country. And yes, people in Sweden pay 57%. I know this because I know several people who pay it.

Of course, those rates don't include state taxes.

That's the top marginal rate, and so no one's effective tax rate is as high as 57%.

Well, having several of these conversations with each of them (and together, at times) over the years suggests otherwise. I don't live there and I'm not an accountant in Sweden, so I can only go off what they tell me they pay.

You sound like you know something about it though. How does it work there?


styndall


Dec 7, 2012, 4:02 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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Do you know how marginal rates work? Because the top marginal rate is the rate paid on income above a certain threshold, not on total income. With a top marginal rate of 57%, it is mathematically impossible to pay 57% of your total income in tax.

EDIT: Just in case, here's how marginal rates work. You pay a certain percentage of your income up to a particular threshold. Income over that threshold but beneath the next threshold is taxed at a different rate, all the way up to the top rate. For instance, here's the marginal rate structure for a single person filing in the US:

In reply to:
10% on taxable income from $0 to $8,700, plus
15% on taxable income over $8,700 to $35,350, plus
25% on taxable income over $35,350 to $85,650, plus
28% on taxable income over $85,650 to $178,650, plus
33% on taxable income over $178,650 to $388,350, plus
35% on taxable income over $388,350.

If I make 35k this year, I'll pay 10% on the first $8,700, so $870, plus 15% on the remaining $26,300, which is 3945. My total income tax for the year is 4815, so my effective rate is a bit more than 13%.


(This post was edited by styndall on Dec 7, 2012, 4:10 PM)


camhead


Dec 7, 2012, 5:35 PM
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Re: [flesh] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
With taxes inevitably going hire in the coming decade, what's "fair"?

Taxes don't hire. Workplaces hire.

Our nation needs lower corporate taxes, way higher income taxes, and socialized medicine. Duh.


Gmburns2000


Dec 8, 2012, 1:59 AM
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Re: [styndall] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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styndall wrote:
Do you know how marginal rates work? Because the top marginal rate is the rate paid on income above a certain threshold, not on total income. With a top marginal rate of 57%, it is mathematically impossible to pay 57% of your total income in tax.

EDIT: Just in case, here's how marginal rates work. You pay a certain percentage of your income up to a particular threshold. Income over that threshold but beneath the next threshold is taxed at a different rate, all the way up to the top rate. For instance, here's the marginal rate structure for a single person filing in the US:

In reply to:
10% on taxable income from $0 to $8,700, plus
15% on taxable income over $8,700 to $35,350, plus
25% on taxable income over $35,350 to $85,650, plus
28% on taxable income over $85,650 to $178,650, plus
33% on taxable income over $178,650 to $388,350, plus
35% on taxable income over $388,350.

If I make 35k this year, I'll pay 10% on the first $8,700, so $870, plus 15% on the remaining $26,300, which is 3945. My total income tax for the year is 4815, so my effective rate is a bit more than 13%.

Yes, I understand how they work. I'm not sure what your point is though. A tax rate is a tax rate. The whole point of my post wasn't to argue marginal rates vs. non-marginal rates, it was to show what the rates are. If they're all marginal then what's your point? A 57% marginal rate is still higher than a 35% marginal rate, regardless if they're marginal.

If your point was that I should have calculated what the actual (outcome) tax rate is AFTER everyone pays, then you're crazy. However, I was able to find this for 2008 2010 in Sweden: 31.8% (Sweden's Tax Summary - Published by Swedish Tax Agency)

As an aside: it doesn't take much to reach that 57% in Sweden (about US$80K), which is apparently about 20% of the population. Which was my point about knowing people who have reached it.

edit: 2008 should have been 2010


(This post was edited by Gmburns2000 on Dec 8, 2012, 8:27 AM)


pinktricam


Dec 8, 2012, 7:05 AM
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Re: [camhead] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
Taxes don't hire. Workplaces hire.

Not much, not lately.


yanqui


Dec 8, 2012, 7:49 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
As an aside: it doesn't take much to reach that 57% in Sweden (about US$80K), which is apparently about 20% of the population. Which was my point about knowing people who have reached it.

With such a high tax rate, how can it be that Sweden has a healthy budget surplus and an economy that in many ways is outperforming the rest of the Eurozone and the US?

For example:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/...ontrasting-economies

Can anyone of you Republicoids explain how this fits into your theory that low taxes for the wealthy and budget cuts for government are so good for the economy?


(This post was edited by yanqui on Dec 8, 2012, 8:01 AM)


Gmburns2000


Dec 8, 2012, 8:05 AM
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Re: [yanqui] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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yanqui wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
As an aside: it doesn't take much to reach that 57% in Sweden (about US$80K), which is apparently about 20% of the population. Which was my point about knowing people who have reached it.

With such a high tax rate, how can it be that Sweden has a healthy budget surplus and an economy that in many ways is outperforming the rest of the Eurozone and the US?

For example:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/...ontrasting-economies

Can anyone of you Republicoids explain how this fits into your theory that low taxes for the wealthy and budget cuts for government are so good for the economy?

exactly


camhead


Dec 8, 2012, 8:14 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
yanqui wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
As an aside: it doesn't take much to reach that 57% in Sweden (about US$80K), which is apparently about 20% of the population. Which was my point about knowing people who have reached it.

With such a high tax rate, how can it be that Sweden has a healthy budget surplus and an economy that in many ways is outperforming the rest of the Eurozone and the US?

For example:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/...ontrasting-economies

Can anyone of you Republicoids explain how this fits into your theory that low taxes for the wealthy and budget cuts for government are so good for the economy?

exactly

This: http://en.wikipedia.org/...round_the_world#List

And this: http://www.marketwatch.com/...ate-to-22-2012-09-13

The United States has the lowest personal income taxes and highest corporate taxes in the first world.

Seriously, if you were a company, would you move here, given that you have to pay more taxes than in Europe, AND provide health insurance, AND draw off of a potential workforce with dwindling math and science skills?


(This post was edited by camhead on Dec 8, 2012, 8:20 AM)


yanqui


Dec 8, 2012, 9:26 AM
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Re: [camhead] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
yanqui wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
As an aside: it doesn't take much to reach that 57% in Sweden (about US$80K), which is apparently about 20% of the population. Which was my point about knowing people who have reached it.

With such a high tax rate, how can it be that Sweden has a healthy budget surplus and an economy that in many ways is outperforming the rest of the Eurozone and the US?

For example:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/...ontrasting-economies

Can anyone of you Republicoids explain how this fits into your theory that low taxes for the wealthy and budget cuts for government are so good for the economy?

exactly

This: http://en.wikipedia.org/...round_the_world#List

And this: http://www.marketwatch.com/...ate-to-22-2012-09-13

The United States has the lowest personal income taxes and highest corporate taxes in the first world.

Seriously, if you were a company, would you move here, given that you have to pay more taxes than in Europe, AND provide health insurance, AND draw off of a potential workforce with dwindling math and science skills?

There has been some interesting theoretical work in economics in an area known as "tax incidence". The problem is: who really ends up "paying" for certain taxes? Corporate taxes, in particular. Of course this depends on many variables. However, even though the actual percentages are highly debatable, I think most economists would agree that workers, in fact, carry some part of the burden for corporate taxes. At any rate, I would certainly agree that corporate taxes are a less than transparent way to tax the wealthy.

However, when it comes to corporate taxes in the US you might also want to consider this:

http://ctj.org/...s_corporations_p.php


(This post was edited by yanqui on Dec 8, 2012, 9:30 AM)


styndall


Dec 8, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Re: [camhead] What % tax is fair? [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:

This: http://en.wikipedia.org/...round_the_world#List

And this: http://www.marketwatch.com/...ate-to-22-2012-09-13

The United States has the lowest personal income taxes and highest corporate taxes in the first world.

Seriously, if you were a company, would you move here, given that you have to pay more taxes than in Europe, AND provide health insurance, AND draw off of a potential workforce with dwindling math and science skills?

Well, you wouldn't actually pay 35%. I can't find the article now, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere recently that more companies pay 0 or negative income tax than 35%. I did find a source that claims the actual average corporate income tax is about 13%.

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