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What not to buy if you're a noob...
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Stone0826


Dec 15, 2012, 11:06 AM
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What not to buy if you're a noob...
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If you're a noob and you want to start top roping, make sure you're completely aware of top rope systems. I found this package online and wanted to forewarn any beginner that this top rope package is garbage. A.) don't use a pulley (ever) for a top rope setup, you need the friction that the biners provide. B.) the price is outlandish. C.) you'll look like an idiot. Spend $30 and purchase some biners and webbing or chordage. You can honestly have a safe setup for next to nothing. Enjoy the new sport and don't break your bank account.

https://www.pyro-tection.com/wildernessshop/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/55_156/products_id/863


gblauer
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Dec 15, 2012, 9:00 PM
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Re: [Stone0826] What not to buy if you're a noob... [In reply to]
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Stone0826 wrote:
If you're a noob and you want to start top roping, make sure you're completely aware of top rope systems. I found this package online and wanted to forewarn any beginner that this top rope package is garbage. A.) don't use a pulley (ever) for a top rope setup, you need the friction that the biners provide. B.) the price is outlandish. C.) you'll look like an idiot. Spend $30 and purchase some biners and webbing or chordage. You can honestly have a safe setup for next to nothing. Enjoy the new sport and don't break your bank account.

https://www.pyro-tection.com/..._156/products_id/863

Made clicky


Stone0826


Dec 16, 2012, 6:00 AM
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Re: [gblauer] What not to buy if you're a noob... [In reply to]
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Thanks for fixing the link.... I was introducing climbing to a friend whom later caught the gear fever and ended up buying this setup along with the nuts. He was so stoked to have his own gear, when we showed up to the rim anchors he replies " I got this"... Whips the gear out & I immediately face-palmed. I sat him down and explained everything, it was like a father/son lecture. It was funny and sad at the same time to watch his emotions go from one extreme to the other. It put a damper on the day because he was pissy about losing that much money over something that doesn't work. (It can work but just not preferred) but that's how you Learn. Thanks again.


dolphja


Dec 17, 2012, 7:52 AM
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Re: [Stone0826] What not to buy if you're a noob... [In reply to]
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WOAH!!! the prices on this site are astronomical!


AkAxeMan


Dec 17, 2012, 12:20 PM
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Re: [dolphja] What not to buy if you're a noob... [In reply to]
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Keep in mind that it is currently 1 AUD to 1.05 USD...wait a minute, that makes it more expensive.


bearbreeder


Dec 17, 2012, 12:32 PM
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Re: [Stone0826] What not to buy if you're a noob... [In reply to]
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 did a comparison a bit back to show how much money you can "waste" as a new climber by going out and buying the "best" of everything over "cheaper" but totally functional gear ...

basically you can easily spend twice as much with not too much benefit as a beginner .... this is all gear youll need for what the type of climbing youll be doing ... but its not the particular brand/product you "need" at this stage ... yet i see new climbers using shinny TC pros in the gym ...

it actually doesnt costs that much to climb on pretty "good" gear ... basically ~600$ all in for sport and ~1200$ all in for trad

the "smart" beginner choice



yet you can easily spend more for little benefit when starting out if you get distracted by dead bird harnesses, megatron biners, fancy quickdraws and shoes that you think will make you climb like tommy caldwell ...

the 'clueless" beginner



all prices are normal prices at MEC or other canadian stores, everyday package discounts where they apply


(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Dec 17, 2012, 12:41 PM)


PeteF


Dec 18, 2012, 4:59 AM
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Re: [dolphja] What not to buy if you're a noob... [In reply to]
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Yes welcome to the land of retailer-distributor price-gouge!

On a brighter note thanks BB for the spreadsheet of kit. As a noob it was helpful in itself to give an idea of what I may need to buy eventually. At the moment I just buy things as I need them, but it's good to have a better idea of where it's heading. Much appreciated.

Pete


jeepnphreak


Dec 20, 2012, 9:54 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] What not to buy if you're a noob... [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
did a comparison a bit back to show how much money you can "waste" as a new climber by going out and buying the "best" of everything over "cheaper" but totally functional gear ...

basically you can easily spend twice as much with not too much benefit as a beginner .... this is all gear youll need for what the type of climbing youll be doing ... but its not the particular brand/product you "need" at this stage ... yet i see new climbers using shinny TC pros in the gym ...

it actually doesnt costs that much to climb on pretty "good" gear ... basically ~600$ all in for sport and ~1200$ all in for trad

the "smart" beginner choice

[image]http://i50.tinypic.com/y1ceh.png
[/image]

yet you can easily spend more for little benefit when starting out if you get distracted by dead bird harnesses, megatron biners, fancy quickdraws and shoes that you think will make you climb like tommy caldwell ...

the 'clueless" beginner

[image]http://i50.tinypic.com/2eupsmg.jpg
[/image]

all prices are normal prices at MEC or other canadian stores, everyday package discounts where they apply


Damn it IN DOOR belay device! no wonder Im not crushing 5.13s yet. I have been doing it wrong for so manny years.


Syd


Dec 20, 2012, 11:01 AM
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Re: [Stone0826] What not to buy if you're a noob... [In reply to]
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Stone0826 wrote:
... He was so stoked to have his own gear, when we showed up to the rim anchors he replies " I got this"... Whips the gear out & I immediately face-palmed. ..

Did he buy the "optional: stoppers" ? It's a wonder they didn't include a daisy chain as one noob TR friend was advised.

Missing from the beginner's TR package are rope protectors, prusiks; sewn slings; at least one static to safety access BBs/lower offs (3 deaths in the past couple of years in Oz, from unroped, very experienced climbers walking around at the top of crags); better 2 statics for setting up own anchors; harness; a dynamic climbing rope.

It's interesting they mention "schools" in the ad. I once commented to the leader of a climbing school that his TR setup had at least serious 5 errors. He replied that he had to take short cuts because another group had taken most of their gear ! However he did climb up and change the death triangle.

Prices in Australia can be very high. It is often cheaper to buy in the US, even with freight costs. That silly pulley is the most expensive item and would make the total price typical.


bearbreeder


Dec 20, 2012, 12:59 PM
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Syd wrote:
Missing from the beginner's TR package are rope protectors, prusiks; sewn slings; at least one static to safety access BBs/lower offs (3 deaths in the past couple of years in Oz, from unroped, very experienced climbers walking around at the top of crags); better 2 statics for setting up own anchors; harness; a dynamic climbing rope.

use a blanket or a jacket to protect the rope (really the anchors) over an edge

if you need a "prussik" learn the kleimheist with your slings ...

for places with good anchor bolts, which is what beginners should be TRing on, you dont need static rope

the mantra for beginners should be get what gear you "need" ... but learn the skills rather than buy fancy/excess gear anyday Wink


Syd


Dec 20, 2012, 4:42 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:

if you need a "prussik" learn the kleimheist with your slings ...

for places with good anchor bolts, which is what beginners should be TRing on, you dont need static rope

You still do need a static with a Prusik to clip into, to access the BB's or Lower off rings safely. You need a sling for the tree/rock to attach the static. 3 deaths of experienced (20 yrs+) climbers who didn't do this, in a couple of years from a small climbing community climbers, should be a good lesson for everyone. I've seen so many people ignor this simple basic safety rule, through complacency or particularly with non climbers, bravado.


bearbreeder


Dec 20, 2012, 4:52 PM
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Re: [Syd] What not to buy if you're a noob... [In reply to]
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Syd wrote:

You still do need a static with a Prusik to clip into, to access the BB's or Lower off rings safely. You need a sling for the tree/rock to attach the static. 3 deaths of experienced (20 yrs+) climbers who didn't do this, in a couple of years from a small climbing community climbers, should be a good lesson for everyone. I've seen so many people ignor this simple basic safety rule, through complacency or particularly with non climbers, bravado.

try rapping down off a tree with your regular rope, or getting someone to give you a top belay down to the anchors ... then setting up the anchors, pulling the rope, setting up the top rope from there et voila Wink

plenty of anchors here at the edge ... people just rap off a tree or get a quick belay down to them ... no need for a separate rope ...


Syd


Dec 20, 2012, 5:51 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:

try rapping down off a tree with your regular rope, or getting someone to give you a top belay down to the anchors ... then setting up the anchors, pulling the rope, setting up the top rope from there et voila Wink

plenty of anchors here at the edge ... people just rap off a tree or get a quick belay down to them ... no need for a separate rope ...

Indeed, in places that is the only way to access lower offs. In some spots, it is impractical to use long statics down a face, in order to get the climbing rope free of obstructions and rapping to the lower offs is preferable.

However here at least, at most crags belay bolts and/or lower offs are easily reached. In such cases it is quickest to attach a 10m static to a tree to safely access the anchors, rather than stuff around with 60m of climbing rope as protection in reaching the achors.

Even where lower offs can be reached from the top of a crag I still find 2 statics easier and quicker, than using the lower offs. It is much easier to rap down holding the statics than to try to manoeuvre down and under the lower offs.

In the case of belay bolts, a single static is the quickest and safest way to access the BB's. Starting the rap down hanging onto the slings is easy.

2 x 10-12m of static costs peanuts.


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