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Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema
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bearbreeder


Dec 22, 2012, 4:45 AM
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Re: [patto] Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema [In reply to]
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patto wrote:
Despite all the words you haven't yet even explained how the statement is incorrect. A loaded grigri is 100% safe to go hands free provided the cam isn't forced open.

Know and understand you equipment. It seems that you don't. I suppose you wouldn't trust a Reverso in autoblock in hands free either. Crazy


oh GOD mista PATTO ... i just explained it to you ... when yr swinging over the place with a measuring tape, leaning over, etc ... there is the possibility that something will catch or bump

you obviously dont care what PETZL says as regard to it ... do you take your brake hand off the gri gri when belaying too to fiddle around all day when yr partner is hanging ... if so please dont climb with me Wink

youre obviously too LAZY to take a few seconds to tie a knot with your partners life on the line ... do you even let them know youre going to take your hand off the brake ???? ... or do you make that decision for em without informing em

ill repeat it again

Hello, sorry to say that what you have been told is absolutely wrong. In all our technical instruction we clearly say never let your brake hand go off the rope.

ill take PETZLs word over some RCers ANYDAY on the usage of their belay device

if you like you can tell PETZL how they should use their device Tongue


USnavy


Dec 22, 2012, 4:48 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
USnavy wrote:
First of all, the guy you emailed was not "Petzl," but rather likely some sales rep who could very well know less about climbing than many of the senior members of this forum. If the guy is actually a solid climber, he knows that statement was bullshit but he had to say it for liability reasons. Second, the GriGri is one of the most commonly used devices in slacklining. We use it to serve as a mechanical brake to stop the pulley system from despooling. When using the GriGri as a brake in long slacklines, the force subjected to the GriGri is far greater than what is normally seen in the climbing world, and the device is always operated "hands free" with nothing holding the rope. To date I have never heard of a GriGri randomly slipping without being overloaded. My GriGri has likely had over 100 hours of "hands free" time on it holding my slackline. I normally tension my longline in excess of 2,000 lbf which means the GriGri has to hold in excess of 400 lbf. at times.

since you believe its perfectly fine to take the hand right off the brake when rapping or belaying by implication once its loaded Wink
I never said anything like that. I said the GriGri in my slackline is able to hold a load without a hand on the rope. I always keep my hand on the rope when belaying - no exceptions. However, if I am rappelling and doing route work, I will take my hand off the rope, but I still tie a back-up knot most of the time. But I do not tie a back-up knot in the rope because I think the GriGri is some how going to magically decam and drop me. I tie a knot in the rope in case I drop my drill on the GriGri and jam the cam open inadvertently or something of the like.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Dec 22, 2012, 4:53 AM)


patto


Dec 22, 2012, 4:50 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
oh GOD mista PATTO ... i just explained it to you ... when yr swinging over the place with a measuring tape, leaning over, etc ... there is the possibility that something will catch or bump
In which case you are talking about forcing the cam open. Wink

bearbreeder wrote:
youre obviously too LAZY to take a few seconds to tie a knot with your partners life on the line ... do you even let them know youre going to take your hand off the brake ???? ... or do you make that decision for em without informing em
No you are just making stuff up. Crazy


bearbreeder


Dec 22, 2012, 4:51 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
I never said anything like that. I said the GriGri in my slackline is able to hold a load without a hand on the rope. I always keep my hand on the rope when belaying - no exceptions.

well if its 100% safe like some people claim ... then why bother putting your hand on the rope then ????

hint ... because things can go bump and catch ... Wink


bearbreeder


Dec 22, 2012, 4:52 AM
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Re: [patto] Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema [In reply to]
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patto wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
oh GOD mista PATTO ... i just explained it to you ... when yr swinging over the place with a measuring tape, leaning over, etc ... there is the possibility that something will catch or bump
In which case you are talking about forcing the cam open. Wink

bearbreeder wrote:
youre obviously too LAZY to take a few seconds to tie a knot with your partners life on the line ... do you even let them know youre going to take your hand off the brake ???? ... or do you make that decision for em without informing em
No you are just making stuff up. Crazy

100% safe ???? ... lol

things can catch on the handle or bump the cam ... its THAT simple Tongue

which is what the video of the OP was doing ... swinging, leaning, clothing getting close to the lever, measuring tape on the air ...

unlikely but no more so than a fcukang true factor 2 fall without a belay device on some weird dyneema anchor Wink


(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Dec 22, 2012, 4:59 AM)


Partner rgold


Dec 22, 2012, 8:30 AM
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Re: [jliungman] Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema [In reply to]
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jliungman wrote:
The proportion of nylon vs dyneema would be an obvious starting point for some serious tests. The sling in the video was a Mammut, as far as I know. What model, I donīt know.

The thin Mammut slings have mostly white fibers and so probably have a relatively high ratio of dyneema to nylon. The slings DMM broke were also of the mostly-white variety. The slings Mal tested (which withstood factor-2 falls on clove hitches IIRC) were what Trango was calling "Ultratape" at the time and looked like the top picture in acorneau's post, i.e. perhaps a 50-50 mix.


namoclimber


Dec 22, 2012, 10:30 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema [In reply to]
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The gri gri is a fairly safe device for hands free. That being said, I have worked in a climbing gym for 15 years and can tell you I always tie a back up knot below the device just in case. In that time i have only had one issue with the device slipping and was caught by the knot.
Enough said. Be safe, be smart.
(all it takes is to unweight the device and it will slip)


USnavy


Dec 22, 2012, 3:59 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
USnavy wrote:
I never said anything like that. I said the GriGri in my slackline is able to hold a load without a hand on the rope. I always keep my hand on the rope when belaying - no exceptions.

well if its 100% safe like some people claim ... then why bother putting your hand on the rope then ????

Wink
You are talking about two different phenomena. The GriGri may be able to support a load without assistance once the cam is locked, but you need to hold the rope to initiate the locking of the cam. That is why I hold the rope. Without drag on the brake side of the rope, the rope can slide through the GriGri on a fall without locking.


bearbreeder


Dec 22, 2012, 4:16 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
You are talking about two different phenomena. The GriGri may be able to support a load without assistance once the cam is locked, but you need to hold the rope to initiate the locking of the cam. That is why I hold the rope. Without drag on the brake side of the rope, the rope can slide through the GriGri on a fall without locking.

actually im talking about when the cam is fully engaged and your climber is resting on the rope ... why bother keeping your brake hand on or trying it off ...

again ... hint ... things can get bumped or catch on the lever Wink


namoclimber wrote:
The gri gri is a fairly safe device for hands free. That being said, I have worked in a climbing gym for 15 years and can tell you I always tie a back up knot below the device just in case. In that time i have only had one issue with the device slipping and was caught by the knot.
Enough said. Be safe, be smart.
(all it takes is to unweight the device and it will slip)

i agree its generally pretty "safe" ... but all it takes is having one issue without the backup/brake hand and youre bear food ... or even worse or better, your partner is


patto


Dec 22, 2012, 4:28 PM
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Re: [namoclimber] Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema [In reply to]
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namoclimber and USnavy have hit the nail on the head.

Also note, for any other people reading this, nobody here has advocated NOT tying backup knots. All that has been claimed is that under some conditions the GriGri will securely hold without needed a brake hand.


bearbreeder


Dec 22, 2012, 4:50 PM
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Re: [patto] Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema [In reply to]
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patto wrote:
namoclimber and USnavy have hit the nail on the head.

Also note, for any other people reading this, nobody here has advocated NOT tying backup knots. All that has been claimed is that under some conditions the GriGri will securely hold without needed a brake hand.

unless something goes bump or catches ... which is very possible with the guy swinging, leaning, playing with tapes, etc .. in the video

i think other people who read this know pretty well thats quite possible ..

its basic safety procedure ... which is ironic in a video about the safety of gear

Wink


jliungman


Dec 23, 2012, 7:36 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
patto wrote:
namoclimber and USnavy have hit the nail on the head.

Also note, for any other people reading this, nobody here has advocated NOT tying backup knots. All that has been claimed is that under some conditions the GriGri will securely hold without needed a brake hand.

unless something goes bump or catches ... which is very possible with the guy swinging, leaning, playing with tapes, etc .. in the video

i think other people who read this know pretty well thats quite possible ..

its basic safety procedure ... which is ironic in a video about the safety of gear

Wink

Was i not 100% clear in my previous post that the guy has a backup knot out of view? Why make assumptions based on a few seconds of vid? Can we stick to the topic instead?


bearbreeder


Dec 23, 2012, 11:29 AM
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Re: [jliungman] Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema [In reply to]
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my apologies then Wink

now go put a belay device in the system ... when was the last time you belayed up a pitch without one, or a munter/hip belay

Tongue


(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Dec 23, 2012, 11:34 AM)


Syd


Dec 23, 2012, 12:25 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Video: Testing FF2 with dyneema [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:

You are talking about two different phenomena. The GriGri may be able to support a load without assistance once the cam is locked, but you need to hold the rope to initiate the locking of the cam. That is why I hold the rope.

In reply to:
nobody here has advocated NOT tying backup knots.

It seems some are suggesting that when the cam is locked, all is OK. All it takes for failure is a slight unloading by the climber, then a slowish re-uptake, especially with a new thin rope.

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