More than adequate.

What minimum braking force do you believe that a held-open braking-assist belay device (especially with a thin, slick rope) provides?

Jay

That´s easy, I´ve just pull-tested some. A quick and dirty test as I´m not going to set-up the standard pulling angle that is usually used so this one is straight through and the values are a bit higher than usual, probably ca.20%.
Used 10mm rope, I don´t own any thin single ropes.

Ratio of braking force to hand force (force multiplication).

Cinch 1.3:1
GriGri 4.2:1
For comparison:-
ATC XP Low friction mode 6:1
ATCXP High friction mode 7.1:1

I haven´t a Faders Sum available but on that the rope does go straight through without impediment so it would be even worse than the Cinch which puts a slight kink in.

For those of you who claim that you can hold a fall with an assisted locking device loaded backwards; have you actually tried this? I have, and find it extremely difficult to do so even in a top top setting. I imagine I couldn't even come close in a lead fall..,

They're not if they know how to belay. There isn't an autoblocking device made I couldn't hold a leader fall just fine with the device held open.

Let me be clear, no one is going to stop a fall on a free-running autoblocking device with just their hands - it isn't going to happen. In order to stop a fall you have to have the ingrained instinct of braking falls over your lower hip / upper thigh regardless of the belay device in use. The lack of that instinct isn't so much generational as device-driven. If you come up learning on autoblocking devices as your primary belay device you are just not likely to develop such an ingrained instinct.

Provided that I am the distributor of the Cinch in Italy.
Provided that my opinion are not necessarly the same as Trango's.
Provided that I have done two videos on how to use the Cinch, that have seen about 40K times.

I had a Cinch not properly lock on me several years ago. The Cinch was relatively new and not worn.

The incident was in a gym, the leader was on a near horizontal roof a few feet out from his last clip. I watched him get sketchy, knew he was coming off and I was ready for the catch. The rope pulled through maybe 20 feet before locking up, fortunately still off the deck. As this happened I grasped harder with my break hand and got some rope burns. Note that I am positive that my break hand was completely on the rope, not on the device or interfering with the proper function of the device, and it was positioned below the device. I’ve climbed for a long time (well before active belay devices were available) and instinctively bring my hand down to catch falls.

After playing with the Cinch I see how this is possible. The situation:

• The device is rotated 90 degrees clockwise from its fall catch position
• The belayer’s break hand is low
• The face plate is in the position rotated clockwise, not in the locked position

With this setup, the rope can run straight through the slot without going around the pin, and the plate does not pinch the rope. Unless there is an action, such as rope friction, it is possible for the devise and the face plate to stay in this configuration and not lock up! The belayer’s break hand can keep the face plate from rotating and pinching the rope. Note that for my incident, the fall was soft without a jerk that might have rotated the device and made it lock up.

To avoid this failure mode, the belayer would need to be sure that the device was always rotated counterclockwise, as it is when loaded and locking the rope. However, the realities of belaying are that the device will flop around in different positions as the belayer gives rope, takes in slack, and prepares for a fall. Alternatively, if the belayer were to bring their hand up (not down) in the event of a fall, the device would rotate counterclockwise and lock. However, this is counter intuitive, not standard practice, and relies completely on the action of the device rather than (at least the backup of) the belayer’s break hand below the device.

Diagrams/photos are probably needed for a full explanation – maybe later. It’s probably impossible to know if this action was the problem in my incident, or if something else happened. Regardless, my later experiments convinced me that this failure mode is possible. I do not trust the Cinch and will not use one again.

Seriously though. Braking around the thigh really doesn't add that much friction. Anybody who thinks they can hold the several hundred kg of a severe fall in their hands without a proper friction device is kidding themselves.

I've never had the experience a catching whipper fall from an elephant, but I know it isn't going to work out well.

Seriously though, not having experience in something (catching big falls without a functional friction device) ,does not mean somebody is "talking out of their ass".

I'm sure I've agreed with you on other topics, I'm sure you have alot of good experience to contribute to the discussion. But this time just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean im talking out of my ass.