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Quick and dirty test: What happens during shockloading?
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Partner rgold


Jan 9, 2013, 11:34 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Quick and dirty test: What happens during shockloading? [In reply to]
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I don't know who you are replying to but it certainly isn't me. I covered everything you said here.

I see sport climbers leave substantial loops of slack in the belay a lot.

I never see trad climbers doing that.


redlude97


Jan 9, 2013, 12:15 PM
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Re: [rgold] Quick and dirty test: What happens during shockloading? [In reply to]
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rgold wrote:
I don't know who you are replying to but it certainly isn't me. I covered everything you said here.

I see sport climbers leave substantial loops of slack in the belay a lot.

I never see trad climbers doing that.
Patto does it....


(This post was edited by redlude97 on Jan 9, 2013, 12:16 PM)


patto


Jan 9, 2013, 3:53 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Quick and dirty test: What happens during shockloading? [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
As for misrepresenting you, all I've said is that you seem to me to be both proud and stubborn about your method of belaying, which, unless I'm mistaken, is to give extra slack as opposed to a soft catch.

You are totally mistaken in every facet of that statement.

*I have not expresed pride of stubbornness about my belaying.
*In fact I haven't even discussed my belaying.
*I'm not advocating "giving more slack" to the climber


(This post was edited by patto on Jan 9, 2013, 4:01 PM)


redlude97


Jan 9, 2013, 4:53 PM
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Re: [patto] Quick and dirty test: What happens during shockloading? [In reply to]
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patto wrote:
cracklover wrote:
As for misrepresenting you, all I've said is that you seem to me to be both proud and stubborn about your method of belaying, which, unless I'm mistaken, is to give extra slack as opposed to a soft catch.

You are totally mistaken in every facet of that statement.

*I have not expresed pride of stubbornness about my belaying.
*In fact I haven't even discussed my belaying.
*I'm not advocating "giving more slack" to the climber
Sure you haven't directly stated what you do, but what are we supposed to believe when you make statements like this.
patto wrote:
Those graphs show quite clearly that the difference between dynamic and a simple belay is negligible.

Also all the comment regarding sport climbing and stopping the pendulum effect miss the point. A dynamic belay is not the best solution to avoiding a pendulum! The best solution is allowing more slack!

patto wrote:
Syd wrote:
The main peak load occurs over 85ms (that is, the width of the peak above the final base load). The most extreme part of the peak load happens in a shorter period. It is interesting to consider this in relation to active dynamic belaying. It is claimed that if the belayer jumps or steps or actively initiates a moves in some way, when a climber falls, he can reduce the peak loading on the climber. It takes an absolute minimum of 200ms for a person to react to some stimulus (such as hearing a yell "falling" or seeing a fall), and generally this time is much longer. Further time is then required for the belayer to flex in some way. To reduce the peak load on the climber, the belayer's jump would then have to be precisely synchronised with the 85ms peak load. To me, this seems almost impossible.

Any "dynamic" effect by the belayer is simply the belayer being lifted off the ground by the impact of the fall. It is virtually impossible for the belayer to actively contribute to any impact reduction.

Many people consider that dynamic belaying is an essential part of good belaying but actions other than allowing some rope slip through the belay device at the moment of impact and an indirect or semi direct belay, seem futile.

I completely agree with this.

Crazy


patto


Jan 9, 2013, 6:14 PM
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Re: [redlude97] Quick and dirty test: What happens during shockloading? [In reply to]
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redlude97 wrote:
Sure you haven't directly stated what you do, but what are we supposed to believe when you make statements like this.
Crazy

You should read and comprehend what the statements DO say and not to jump to conclusions about what they DO NOT say.

rgold wrote:
....

LOTS OF TEXT...
Like usual I feel compelled to agree with Rgold...


rgold wrote:
I see sport climbers leave substantial loops of slack in the belay a lot.

I never see trad climbers doing that.

I've observed this about many gym climbers too. Though I have no reason or desire to fault their belay as it seems to regularly achieve the desirable outcome.

When it comes to trad though, in my experience, the best way for a belayer to reduce the risk of injury to the climber is USUALLY to minimise the fall distance. This normally involve minimal slack, no jumping and standing beneath the first piece. Of course where a pendulum injury is possible or the pro is exceptionally weak then other approaches may be preferable.

For the last big trad fall I caught there was 30m of rope in the system. The leader fell ~7m came within 0.5m of a sloped face beneath her. I would expect that she was glad of a tight belay with minimal slack or jumping. Wink

Of course a belay should be situationally dependent.


(This post was edited by patto on Jan 9, 2013, 6:50 PM)

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