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matterunomama


Jan 29, 2013, 4:42 PM
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18 Dead, Potrero Chico
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http://rockice.amgbusiness.com/...paign=MP%2BFeed-News

If you go for the world class climbing, take great care. Consider partying in the campground, as it seems the local violence is even in Hidalgo town


sonso45


Jan 29, 2013, 4:47 PM
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Re: [matterunomama] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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I think you should delete this post. R&I is wrong. Homero's is not involved. The Potrero is a backdrop to the incident for us. This post serves to stir up fear and rumors.

A simple google search of Kombo Kolombia murder will show you where it happened.


matterunomama


Jan 29, 2013, 5:55 PM
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Re: [sonso45] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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Sorry, it does not sY Homeros, I was confusing it with another report.
Nevertheless, the advice to be careful stands.
I have wanted to return to EPC since I first went several years ago, but cancelled my family trip there this xmas because of trouble in the area. Drug people kill each other, but tourists can get caught in the crossfire, robbed for money, etc.
I truly hope that the drug activity will reduce, The park, the town, and all the good people there will regain foreign currency, murders of loved ones will cease, and people like me will feel comfortable climbing their wonderful crags.


sonso45


Jan 29, 2013, 6:01 PM
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Re: [matterunomama] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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Violence has occurred in Hidalgo before this horrible event. A shoot out happened in town when my friend Gail and Mitch were there a couple of years ago. Several cartel members and the town dentist were slain.

The northern portion of Mexico seems particularly dangerous. I just returned from two weeks in Taxco, Mexico (west of Mexico City) and had an absolutely fun safe time.


(This post was edited by sonso45 on Jan 29, 2013, 6:01 PM)


potreroed


Jan 29, 2013, 8:08 PM
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Re: [matterunomama] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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This incident didn't affect the climbers at all. Nobody is panicking and fleeing. Everything is back to normal. We've been enjoying a good season with lots of climbers driving and flying down.


jt512


Jan 29, 2013, 9:31 PM
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Re: [potreroed] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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If the OP is incapable of editing the title of his or her thread, then, for once, perhaps a moderator could step in and do something useful.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Jan 29, 2013, 9:33 PM)


curt


Jan 29, 2013, 9:37 PM
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Re: [jt512] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
If the OP is incapable of editing the title of his or her thread, then, for once, perhaps a moderator could step in and do something useful.

Jay

It's nice to see that the star ratings are still rigged too. pfffft.

Curt


jomagam


Jan 29, 2013, 11:36 PM
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Re: [sonso45] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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sonso45 wrote:
I think you should delete this post. R&I is wrong. Homero's is not involved. The Potrero is a backdrop to the incident for us. This post serves to stir up fear and rumors.

A simple google search of Kombo Kolombia murder will show you where it happened.

Why exactly is R&I wrong ? Google Maps shows that the bodies were found 8 miles from EPC.


sonso45


Jan 30, 2013, 5:42 AM
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Re: [jomagam] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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R&I changed their statement. Originally they posted false information. I just looked at their current web post and it is not the same one as yesterday. Thanks R&I!


(This post was edited by sonso45 on Jan 30, 2013, 5:46 AM)


Partner camhead


Jan 30, 2013, 5:44 AM
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Re: [jomagam] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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jomagam wrote:
sonso45 wrote:
I think you should delete this post. R&I is wrong. Homero's is not involved. The Potrero is a backdrop to the incident for us. This post serves to stir up fear and rumors.

A simple google search of Kombo Kolombia murder will show you where it happened.

Why exactly is R&I wrong ? Google Maps shows that the bodies were found 8 miles from EPC.

R&I's article originally stated that the bodies had been dumped into a well "near Homero's," a climbers' campground. They also originally said that the band had been playing a gig within earshot of Potrero campgrounds, which as far as I can tell was not true. Also, the headline "climbers flee Potrero" seems a bit sensationalist, and according to Ed (who, granted, is not an unbiased reference), is also not really true.

Also, the two best articles on this both make it clear that the band was playing, and kidnapped, in a town called Sabinas Hidalgo, which is NOT the same "Hidalgo" as the town near Potrero. The two towns are around 50 miles apart.


http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...nd-tortured-and.html

http://americanlivewire.com/...s-of-kombo-kolombia/


marc801


Jan 30, 2013, 7:06 AM
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Re: [camhead] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
Also, the two best articles on this both make it clear that the band was playing, and kidnapped, in a town called Sabinas Hidalgo, which is NOT the same "Hidalgo" as the town near Potrero. The two towns are around 50 miles apart.


http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...nd-tortured-and.html

http://americanlivewire.com/...s-of-kombo-kolombia/

Yet in that first link (and other articles) it clearly states the bodies were found near the town of Mina, which is indeed very close to the Hidalgo that is outside the EPC. Perhaps that is the source of some of the confusion.


newrivermike


Jan 30, 2013, 8:43 AM
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Re: [potreroed] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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Hey Ed, first off, I can't tell you how sorry I am that this happened. Especially so close to your home. I've visited many times and love the Potrero. I know this will have a negative impact on the local businesses as well as 'the scene' down there. It's incredibly unfortunate.

My question: Is La Carreta the bar on the road that leads over to Rancho Cerro Gordo? That's how I remember it. In which case, the original article was correct in saying that the bar where they were kidnapped was within earshot of the campgrounds. There is so much misinformation about the story. Seems like you're the one able to clarify a bit. Other folks on this thread are saying the kidnapping occurred no where near the Potrero, in a different town. Where's La Carreta?


potreroed


Jan 30, 2013, 9:14 AM
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Re: [newrivermike] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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Yes, you are correct. La Carreta is the warehouse-like building next to Homero's on the way to Cerro Gordo.

Apparently, the party was to have taken place elsewhere but the venue was changed at the last minute. Again, the incident did not affect the climbers in any way, other than keeping them awake due to the noise of the party.

It will be interesting to eventually learn what these band members did to piss those guys off so badly.


Gmburns2000


Jan 30, 2013, 9:34 AM
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Re: [potreroed] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
Yes, you are correct. La Carreta is the warehouse-like building next to Homero's on the way to Cerro Gordo.

Apparently, the party was to have taken place elsewhere but the venue was changed at the last minute. Again, the incident did not affect the climbers in any way, other than keeping them awake due to the noise of the party.

It will be interesting to eventually learn what these band members did to piss those guys off so badly.

camhead wrote:
jomagam wrote:
sonso45 wrote:
I think you should delete this post. R&I is wrong. Homero's is not involved. The Potrero is a backdrop to the incident for us. This post serves to stir up fear and rumors.

A simple google search of Kombo Kolombia murder will show you where it happened.

Why exactly is R&I wrong ? Google Maps shows that the bodies were found 8 miles from EPC.

R&I's article originally stated that the bodies had been dumped into a well "near Homero's," a climbers' campground. They also originally said that the band had been playing a gig within earshot of Potrero campgrounds, which as far as I can tell was not true. Also, the headline "climbers flee Potrero" seems a bit sensationalist, and according to Ed (who, granted, is not an unbiased reference), is also not really true.

Also, the two best articles on this both make it clear that the band was playing, and kidnapped, in a town called Sabinas Hidalgo, which is NOT the same "Hidalgo" as the town near Potrero. The two towns are around 50 miles apart.


http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...nd-tortured-and.html

http://americanlivewire.com/...s-of-kombo-kolombia/


ahhh...the joys of reporting something first over getting it right. excellent journalism at its best.


Partner robdotcalm


Jan 30, 2013, 10:12 AM
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Re: [jt512] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
If the OP is incapable of editing the title of his or her thread, then, for once, perhaps a moderator could step in and do something useful.

Jay

Yup, let's shoot the messenger.

r.c


gblauer
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Jan 30, 2013, 10:14 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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The facts seem to be:

1) The band was playing across from Homero's at Cerreta.
2) The bodies were dumped in Mina a mere 10 Kilometers away from Hidalgo.

Too close for comfort if you ask me. I was there last year when the army chased some bad guys off the highway into HIdalgo and the ensuing gun fight left 6 or 7 people dead (including the town dentist, innocent bystander).

I am so saddened by all of this. I love EPC and I have gone every year for the last 11 years. It's not likely that I will be going in 2013. I adore the climbing and the scene, but, it's just not worth the risk at this point in my life.


Partner robdotcalm


Jan 30, 2013, 10:17 AM
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Re: [potreroed] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
Again, the incident did not affect the climbers in any way, other than keeping them awake due to the noise of the party.

It will be interesting to eventually learn what these band members did to piss those guys off so badly.

Perhaps living in Mexico for so long inures one to massacres.

Rob.calm


mojomonkey


Jan 30, 2013, 1:21 PM
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Re: [potreroed] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
This incident didn't affect the climbers at all. Nobody is panicking and fleeing. Everything is back to normal. We've been enjoying a good season with lots of climbers driving and flying down.

So the initial reporting that this happened at the bar right at the potrero seems to be right? Which I'd assume you would know, being there?

Yikes man, you seem like the opposite of chicken little. The fact that ~20 people were kidnapped and murdered right by where I'm camping would have a bit of an impact on me...


mojomonkey


Jan 30, 2013, 2:44 PM
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Found this video showing the bar at the Potrero with police tape and authorities investigating, so I think the Rock and Ice article does have it right.


math


Jan 30, 2013, 11:20 PM
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Re: [potreroed] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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Hi Ed, how do you know about the scheduling change? More boots-on-the-ground (or 5.10s or la sportiva's et al.. :) info would be great. I spose a good many people want to know why the band was targetted - if only so we can all rule ourselves out being members of 'they were just random innocent targets'. :/ Condolences to the families.

Mainstream press has picked this up, im sure it's going to be a fustercluck of bad and conflicting info.

Im to be down there climbing in March, got friends who are probably still going in a week's time... see what the vibe is in the meantime... :/


sonso45


Jan 31, 2013, 8:30 AM
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Re: [robdotcalm] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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robdotcalm wrote:
potreroed wrote:
Again, the incident did not affect the climbers in any way, other than keeping them awake due to the noise of the party.

It will be interesting to eventually learn what these band members did to piss those guys off so badly.

Perhaps living in Mexico for so long inures one to massacres.

Rob.calm

No, living in the USA inures one to massacres. Remember Sandy Hook?

As someone said, we have to wait to find out the facts. Initial reports at confusing scenes are usually muddled. R&I has changed their initial incorrect statement and I am sure we will know a lot more once the investigation is complete.


USnavy


Jan 31, 2013, 11:55 PM
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Re: [sonso45] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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sonso45 wrote:
R&I changed their statement. Originally they posted false information.
Big surprise there.


mojomonkey


Feb 2, 2013, 11:29 AM
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Re: [potreroed] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
It will be interesting to eventually learn what these band members did to piss those guys off so badly.

This line has been bouncing around in my head. I didn't initially respond because I may have been reading it in a way you didn't intend, but it sounds like blaming the victims / excusing the cartel. It wasn't as prevalent in this short thread, but a lot of the discussions online had tones of "they must have pissed off a cartel" - as if that somehow made their kidnap and murder reasonable.

It feels like a climbing accident report where people are trying to convince themselves that it couldn't happen to them, but maybe it truly was an accident with no easy target to lay the blame on. It is scary to read about an accident that could happen to you when you can't find something to convince yourself you would have fared better.

Maybe the band was playing for a cartel, and that angered a rival. They should have refused the gig to stay out of it. Except, I wonder how the slight of turning down the asking cartel would have played out...

It is a tragic situation. Blaming the murdered or acting like an uninvolved person (climber or otherwise) couldn't have been caught up in it or that it couldn't happen again seems like hiding from reality.


iknowfear


Feb 2, 2013, 12:03 PM
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Re: [mojomonkey] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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mojomonkey wrote:
potreroed wrote:
It will be interesting to eventually learn what these band members did to piss those guys off so badly.

This line has been bouncing around in my head. I didn't initially respond because I may have been reading it in a way you didn't intend, but it sounds like blaming the victims / excusing the cartel. It wasn't as prevalent in this short thread, but a lot of the discussions online had tones of "they must have pissed off a cartel" - as if that somehow made their kidnap and murder reasonable.

It feels like a climbing accident report where people are trying to convince themselves that it couldn't happen to them, but maybe it truly was an accident with no easy target to lay the blame on. It is scary to read about an accident that could happen to you when you can't find something to convince yourself you would have fared better.

Maybe the band was playing for a cartel, and that angered a rival. They should have refused the gig to stay out of it. Except, I wonder how the slight of turning down the asking cartel would have played out...

It is a tragic situation. Blaming the murdered or acting like an uninvolved person (climber or otherwise) couldn't have been caught up in it or that it couldn't happen again seems like hiding from reality.

+ 1.


sonso45


Feb 5, 2013, 5:30 PM
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Re: [iknowfear] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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R&I has a great report on the terrible situation. This time they hit the nail on the head. It is dangerous and you have to make up your own mind. What risk are you willing to take to climb in Potrero.

http://www.rockandice.com/...potrero-chico-mexico

It is up to the individual to decide. Many of my friends south and north of the border will not go there.


(This post was edited by sonso45 on Feb 5, 2013, 5:31 PM)

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