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camhead
Jan 21, 2013, 7:00 PM
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marc801 wrote: camhead wrote: Derek Hersey maxed out 5.12a or so, he would free solo up to solid 5.11. And was killed soloing a 5.9.
Yup. It is interesting that the three climbers I mentioned who soloed the nearest to their limits are also the three on the list who are not with us anymore. Despite the fact that none of them died while soloing at their limit.
Thoughts?
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marc801
Jan 21, 2013, 8:20 PM
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camhead wrote: marc801 wrote: camhead wrote: Derek Hersey maxed out 5.12a or so, he would free solo up to solid 5.11. And was killed soloing a 5.9. Yup. It is interesting that the three climbers I mentioned who soloed the nearest to their limits are also the three on the list who are not with us anymore. Despite the fact that none of them died while soloing at their limit. Thoughts?
Also there's Honnold's well publicized moment of crisis on the final 5.12 moves on Half Dome.
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ProfessorWaldo
Jan 21, 2013, 10:52 PM
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I second the go pro motion. If you are stupid enough to go from top roping in a gym to free soloing outside, then the rest of us have the right to watch.
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Kartessa
Jan 22, 2013, 12:32 AM
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dr_feelgood wrote: Just be sure to wear a GoPro.
Be a Hero (c)
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notapplicable
Jan 22, 2013, 3:51 AM
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camhead wrote: marc801 wrote: camhead wrote: Derek Hersey maxed out 5.12a or so, he would free solo up to solid 5.11. And was killed soloing a 5.9. Yup. It is interesting that the three climbers I mentioned who soloed the nearest to their limits are also the three on the list who are not with us anymore. Despite the fact that none of them died while soloing at their limit. Thoughts?
I don't know that the two are related. Could be I suppose.
Hersey and Bachar both fell from routes of a relatively moderate grade, given their abilities. Perhaps for reasons similar to why experience climbers seem to be injured or killed more often from unfinished knots or botched rappels and the like. Complacency. Comfort. Hubris. What ever you want to call it.
When you're near your limit, you're focused. When you're cruising, you're relaxed, you make mistakes.
Or maybe it's just a coincidence. Maybe it's pure statistics. They climbed more of that grade than they did near their limit, so the odds were in favor of a fall from that grade.
The closest I have come to falling was on a .7 I had climbed 20+ times before and have done since. I was cruising and my foot slipped. I've onsighted up to .9 and climbed up to .10c with rehearsal. Does that mean anything? It may. I honestly was being complacent on the .7 and don't feel it would have happened if the climbing had been harder. Or maybe thats just what I tell myself to continue believing I'm in control while ropeless...
(This post was edited by notapplicable on Jan 22, 2013, 3:54 AM)
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curt
Jan 22, 2013, 4:57 AM
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camhead wrote: marc801 wrote: camhead wrote: Derek Hersey maxed out 5.12a or so, he would free solo up to solid 5.11. And was killed soloing a 5.9. Yup. It is interesting that the three climbers I mentioned who soloed the nearest to their limits are also the three on the list who are not with us anymore. Despite the fact that none of them died while soloing at their limit. Thoughts?
Objective danger can more than compensate for any amount of talent.
Curt
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USnavy
Jan 22, 2013, 5:00 AM
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Kartessa wrote: granite_grrl wrote: USnavy wrote: camhead wrote: Honnold redpoints 5.14c, has soloed up to 5.13b. Really? I thought he was a .13 climber. I bouldered with him in a gym once, and he was not doing that well for what I expected. I was able to send about 50% of the problems he sent, and I dont climb nearly as hard as he does on a rope, and I dont boulder very often. I have a video of him failing to onsight a V6+ gym boulder problem, and then kind of struggling to send it on the next try. It was also in a gym known for having kind of soft grades. I guess he just doesent boulder much. By comparison, I know a guy who boulders V12 but cannot lead 5.9. I know another who sent V10 but could not touch the chains on a technical 5.10c sport climb. I think you'd find that most of the famous climbers you know don't crank their hardest every single day. Unless you're USNavy... I hear that guy free solos 5.16c
edit: I can see you now hangdog 5.10c on top rope. Serious climbing indeed.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Jan 22, 2013, 5:07 AM)
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curt
Jan 22, 2013, 5:22 AM
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USnavy wrote: Kartessa wrote: granite_grrl wrote: USnavy wrote: camhead wrote: Honnold redpoints 5.14c, has soloed up to 5.13b. Really? I thought he was a .13 climber. I bouldered with him in a gym once, and he was not doing that well for what I expected. I was able to send about 50% of the problems he sent, and I dont climb nearly as hard as he does on a rope, and I dont boulder very often. I have a video of him failing to onsight a V6+ gym boulder problem, and then kind of struggling to send it on the next try. It was also in a gym known for having kind of soft grades. I guess he just doesent boulder much. By comparison, I know a guy who boulders V12 but cannot lead 5.9. I know another who sent V10 but could not touch the chains on a technical 5.10c sport climb. I think you'd find that most of the famous climbers you know don't crank their hardest every single day. Unless you're USNavy... I hear that guy free solos 5.16c Only for warmups. Speaking of hard climbing, how is that 5.10a sport project going for you? edit: I can see you now hangdog 5.10c on top rope. Serious climbing indeed.
Someone who only leads 5.10a trad probably shouldn't go profile surfing to get the goods on anyone else. 
Curt
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marc801
Jan 22, 2013, 5:47 AM
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notapplicable wrote: camhead wrote: marc801 wrote: camhead wrote: Derek Hersey maxed out 5.12a or so, he would free solo up to solid 5.11. And was killed soloing a 5.9. Yup. It is interesting that the three climbers I mentioned who soloed the nearest to their limits are also the three on the list who are not with us anymore. Despite the fact that none of them died while soloing at their limit. Thoughts? I don't know that the two are related. Could be I suppose. Hersey and Bachar both fell from routes of a relatively moderate grade, given their abilities. Perhaps for reasons similar to why experience climbers seem to be injured or killed more often from unfinished knots or botched rappels and the like. Complacency. Comfort. Hubris. What ever you want to call it.
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granite_grrl
Jan 22, 2013, 1:38 PM
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USnavy wrote: Kartessa wrote: granite_grrl wrote: USnavy wrote: camhead wrote: Honnold redpoints 5.14c, has soloed up to 5.13b. Really? I thought he was a .13 climber. I bouldered with him in a gym once, and he was not doing that well for what I expected. I was able to send about 50% of the problems he sent, and I dont climb nearly as hard as he does on a rope, and I dont boulder very often. I have a video of him failing to onsight a V6+ gym boulder problem, and then kind of struggling to send it on the next try. It was also in a gym known for having kind of soft grades. I guess he just doesent boulder much. By comparison, I know a guy who boulders V12 but cannot lead 5.9. I know another who sent V10 but could not touch the chains on a technical 5.10c sport climb. I think you'd find that most of the famous climbers you know don't crank their hardest every single day. Unless you're USNavy... I hear that guy free solos 5.16c Only for warmups. Speaking of hard climbing, how is that 5.10a sport project going for you? edit: I can see you now hangdog 5.10c on top rope. Serious climbing indeed.
Wow, did you realy just go there?
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Kartessa
Jan 22, 2013, 1:45 PM
Post #36 of 49
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USnavy wrote: Kartessa wrote: granite_grrl wrote: USnavy wrote: camhead wrote: Honnold redpoints 5.14c, has soloed up to 5.13b. Really? I thought he was a .13 climber. I bouldered with him in a gym once, and he was not doing that well for what I expected. I was able to send about 50% of the problems he sent, and I dont climb nearly as hard as he does on a rope, and I dont boulder very often. I have a video of him failing to onsight a V6+ gym boulder problem, and then kind of struggling to send it on the next try. It was also in a gym known for having kind of soft grades. I guess he just doesent boulder much. By comparison, I know a guy who boulders V12 but cannot lead 5.9. I know another who sent V10 but could not touch the chains on a technical 5.10c sport climb. I think you'd find that most of the famous climbers you know don't crank their hardest every single day. Unless you're USNavy... I hear that guy free solos 5.16c Only for warmups. Speaking of hard climbing, how is that 5.10a sport project going for you? edit: I can see you now hangdog 5.10c on top rope. Serious climbing indeed.
Check it again
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camhead
Jan 22, 2013, 4:11 PM
Post #37 of 49
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USnavy wrote: Kartessa wrote: granite_grrl wrote: USnavy wrote: camhead wrote: Honnold redpoints 5.14c, has soloed up to 5.13b. Really? I thought he was a .13 climber. I bouldered with him in a gym once, and he was not doing that well for what I expected. I was able to send about 50% of the problems he sent, and I dont climb nearly as hard as he does on a rope, and I dont boulder very often. I have a video of him failing to onsight a V6+ gym boulder problem, and then kind of struggling to send it on the next try. It was also in a gym known for having kind of soft grades. I guess he just doesent boulder much. By comparison, I know a guy who boulders V12 but cannot lead 5.9. I know another who sent V10 but could not touch the chains on a technical 5.10c sport climb. I think you'd find that most of the famous climbers you know don't crank their hardest every single day. Unless you're USNavy... I hear that guy free solos 5.16c Only for warmups. Speaking of hard climbing, how is that 5.10a sport project going for you? edit: I can see you now hangdog 5.10c on top rope. Serious climbing indeed.
The thing is, if Kartessa wants to, she can train to climb harder and improve. You, on the other hand, are stuck being a idiot for life.
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surfstar
Jan 22, 2013, 11:55 PM
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michael1 wrote: At what grade should one free solo?
The correct answer is:
The grade at which you won't fall.
For some, that could be 2nd class and a piece of gum.
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moose_droppings
Jan 23, 2013, 12:13 AM
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You free solo for yourself, not for anyone else.
So go free solo what yourself thinks you can.
Don't ask anyone else and do it far away from everyone else.
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healyje
Jan 23, 2013, 12:46 AM
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moose_droppings wrote: ...and do it far away from everyone else.
Nothing worse than seeing someone free solo something and then they end up shaking like a leaf through the crux. Ugh.
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danabart
Jan 23, 2013, 4:49 AM
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Thank you, Curt, for your understated and accurate post.
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notapplicable
Jan 23, 2013, 5:01 AM
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moose_droppings wrote: go free solo...far away from everyone else.
No
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moose_droppings
Jan 23, 2013, 3:06 PM
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notapplicable wrote: moose_droppings wrote: go free solo...far away from everyone else. No
Yes, at least far enough away where most of us don't have to watch a beginner crater.
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JasonsDrivingForce
Jan 23, 2013, 3:10 PM
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michael1 wrote: How many grades below what you can regularly free climb should you free solo? I did my first free solo yesterday, and it was a fairly short 5.8 crack climb. I haven't climbed outside much recently, but the hardest indoor top-rope route that I've sent is 5.11d.
If you have to ask then you can't afford it.
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SylviaSmile
Jan 29, 2013, 4:55 AM
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moose_droppings wrote: notapplicable wrote: moose_droppings wrote: go free solo...far away from everyone else. No Yes, at least far enough away where most of us don't have to watch a beginner crater.
Certainly far enough away so that you don't fall on someone and kill him/her as well as yourself. Speaking of falling . . . DON'T FREE SOLO
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notapplicable
Jan 29, 2013, 10:06 AM
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SylviaSmile wrote: moose_droppings wrote: notapplicable wrote: moose_droppings wrote: go free solo...far away from everyone else. No Yes, at least far enough away where most of us don't have to watch a beginner crater. Certainly far enough away so that you don't fall on someone and kill him/her as well as yourself. Speaking of falling . . . DON'T FREE SOLO
You speak with such conviction and authority. You must have great practical knowledge of the subject at hand.
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iknowfear
Jan 29, 2013, 1:49 PM
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SylviaSmile wrote: moose_droppings wrote: notapplicable wrote: moose_droppings wrote: go free solo...far away from everyone else. No Yes, at least far enough away where most of us don't have to watch a beginner crater. Certainly far enough away so that you don't fall on someone and kill him/her as well as yourself. Speaking of falling . . . DON'T FREE SOLO
si tu tombes c'est la chute. si tu chutes, c'est la tombe...
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SylviaSmile
Jan 29, 2013, 10:15 PM
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notapplicable wrote: SylviaSmile wrote: moose_droppings wrote: notapplicable wrote: moose_droppings wrote: go free solo...far away from everyone else. No Yes, at least far enough away where most of us don't have to watch a beginner crater. Certainly far enough away so that you don't fall on someone and kill him/her as well as yourself. Speaking of falling . . . DON'T FREE SOLO You speak with such conviction and authority. You must have great practical knowledge of the subject at hand.
You know I don't--nevertheless, I hope no one I know ever dies from free soloing and that I never see anyone die doing it. I think climbing is beautiful, but so is living.
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notapplicable
Jan 30, 2013, 5:24 AM
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SylviaSmile wrote: notapplicable wrote: SylviaSmile wrote: moose_droppings wrote: notapplicable wrote: moose_droppings wrote: go free solo...far away from everyone else. No Yes, at least far enough away where most of us don't have to watch a beginner crater. Certainly far enough away so that you don't fall on someone and kill him/her as well as yourself. Speaking of falling . . . DON'T FREE SOLO You speak with such conviction and authority. You must have great practical knowledge of the subject at hand. You know I don't--nevertheless, I hope no one I know ever dies from free soloing and that I never see anyone die doing it. I think climbing is beautiful, but so is living.
I once hoped no one I knew would die climbing but that didn't stop it from happening. She was sport climbing at the time. It's all just climbing. The discipline doesn't mean much. We make our own rules to this game and play by them at will.
(This post was edited by notapplicable on Jan 30, 2013, 7:05 AM)
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