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Gmburns2000


Feb 12, 2013, 1:36 PM
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Spectra vs. Nylon
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I thought this was a good article from R&I on the benefits of each.

It seems the literature continues to show that spectra is probably more of a specialty piece where weight and / or dry slings matter, and nylon is probably more of an everyday-use product.

The summary of the article (bold-type mine):

R&I wrote:
Spectra Do’s and Don’ts

Don’t
Use a Spectra sling as an
impromptu “daisy chain.”
Lead above a Spectra (or nylon) daisy chain clipped to a piece below you.
Use knotted Spectra slings.
Do
Frequently check Spectra slings, including those on your cams, for wear.
Use a triple fisherman’s knot to tie Spectra cord.

Nylon Versus Spectra

Nylon Pros
Relatively inexpensive
Stretches
Holds knots
Higher melting point than Spectra
Holds up to repeated flexing better than Spectra
Great “all-around” material

Nylon Cons
Absorbs more water
Susceptible to UV
degradation
Heavier and bulkier
than Spectra

Spectra Pros
Three times stronger by weight than nylon
Very lightweight
Low bulk
Absorbs little to no water
Highly abrasion- and
cut-resistant

Spectra cons
Doesn’t stretch
Doesn’t hold knots
Expensive
Low melting point


USnavy


Feb 12, 2013, 10:32 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Spectra vs. Nylon [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
I thought this was a good article from R&I on the benefits of each.

It seems the literature continues to show that spectra is probably more of a specialty piece where weight and / or dry slings matter, and nylon is probably more of an everyday-use product.

The summary of the article (bold-type mine):

R&I wrote:
Spectra Do’s and Don’ts

Don’t
Use a Spectra sling as an
impromptu “daisy chain.”
Lead above a Spectra (or nylon) daisy chain clipped to a piece below you.
Use knotted Spectra slings.
Do
Frequently check Spectra slings, including those on your cams, for wear.
Use a triple fisherman’s knot to tie Spectra cord.

Nylon Versus Spectra

Nylon Pros
Relatively inexpensive
Stretches
Holds knots
Higher melting point than Spectra
Holds up to repeated flexing better than Spectra
Great “all-around” material

Nylon Cons
Absorbs more water
Susceptible to UV
degradation
Heavier and bulkier
than Spectra

Spectra Pros
Three times stronger by weight than nylon
Very lightweight
Low bulk
Absorbs little to no water
Highly abrasion- and
cut-resistant

Spectra cons
Doesn’t stretch
Doesn’t hold knots
Expensive
Low melting point
Ha, yea right, R&I publish a good article? I dont think so. There are fallacies in that article. For example, while it is true that UHMWPE is more abrasion resistant than nylon, a UHWMPE climbing sling is most certainly more susceptible to failure from sharp-edge loading than a nylon sling because UHWMPE slings are 1/3rd the width of a nylon sling! The article incorrectly implies the opposite. Also, they oversimplify some points such as Spectra not stretching. Spectra certainly does stretch. It is not steel chain. It just does not stretch as much as nylon.
But I will agree that covers the basics in a noob-friendly way.


bearbreeder


Feb 12, 2013, 11:31 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Spectra vs. Nylon [In reply to]
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i dont worry about it ...

i use dyneema

so do tons of my partners who actually climb ...

and i also use nylon

are we all the walking dead ... since we arent using only RC approved gear Wink


moose_droppings


Feb 13, 2013, 2:37 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Spectra vs. Nylon [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
i dont worry about it ...

i use dyneema

so do tons of my partners who actually climb ...

and i also use nylon

are we all the walking dead ... since we arent using only RC approved gear Wink

Is it possible for you to post a reply without belittling the site or it's users?


bearbreeder


Feb 13, 2013, 3:36 PM
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Re: [moose_droppings] Spectra vs. Nylon [In reply to]
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moose_droppings wrote:
Is it possible for you to post a reply without belittling the site or it's users?

dya feel belitted mouse droppings ?

funny that RCers are going ga ga over dyneema, when in the real world out here, people just use it ...

it isnt whats killing em

Wink


billl7


Feb 13, 2013, 4:00 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Spectra vs. Nylon [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
But I will agree that covers the basics in a noob-friendly way.
a.k.a. the "executive summary" :)


moose_droppings


Feb 13, 2013, 4:00 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Spectra vs. Nylon [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
moose_droppings wrote:
Is it possible for you to post a reply without belittling the site or it's users?

dya feel belitted mouse droppings ?

funny that RCers are going ga ga over dyneema, when in the real world out here, people just use it ...

it isnt whats killing em

Wink

I'm not feeling belittled personally.

You seen to have experience and your full of good information, but your arrogance and superiority complex dilute your message. Seems a waste.


Edited to add.
WinkCrazyWinkUnsureWinkSlyWinkTongue


(This post was edited by moose_droppings on Feb 13, 2013, 4:01 PM)


bearbreeder


Feb 13, 2013, 4:05 PM
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Re: [moose_droppings] Spectra vs. Nylon [In reply to]
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moose_droppings wrote:

I'm not feeling belittled personally.

You seen to have experience and your full of good information, but your arrogance and superiority complex dilute your message. Seems a waste.


Edited to add.
WinkCrazyWinkUnsureWinkSlyWinkTongue

its amazing that youre complaining about belittled while not feeling belittled

but have no problem with comments made by a certain member about how women arent really that good climbers and something about burqas

sounds very RC like Wink

theres plenty of good people on RC ... but the simple fact is that there are tons of threads that end up as a "if you dont climb my way, do it my way, use my gear, youre gonna die and yr stoooopid" ...

shall i dig up the old "no one should use autoblock mode" threads for your viewing pleasure Tongue


moose_droppings


Feb 13, 2013, 4:41 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:
moose_droppings wrote:

I'm not feeling belittled personally.

You seen to have experience and your full of good information, but your arrogance and superiority complex dilute your message. Seems a waste.


Edited to add.
WinkCrazyWinkUnsureWinkSlyWinkTongue

its amazing that youre complaining about belittled while not feeling belittled

but have no problem with comments made by a certain member about how women arent really that good climbers and something about burqas

sounds very RC like Wink

theres plenty of good people on RC ... but the simple fact is that there are tons of threads that end up as a "if you dont climb my way, do it my way, use my gear, youre gonna die and yr stoooopid" ...

shall i dig up the old "no one should use autoblock mode" threads for your viewing pleasure Tongue

I'm complaining about your constant belittling of this site and some of the people you direct it at.

I know that Majid isn't from this country and I don't know of his religion, so no, I'm not going to judge that, since after all this is a rock climbing site.

I agree that there is misinformation floating around, but judging by the stars of a lot of your posts, maybe berating people isn't the best way to be part of the solution you so vehemently detest about this site.

Just give em the straight facts, nuff said.


billl7


Feb 13, 2013, 4:45 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Spectra vs. Nylon [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
theres plenty of good people on RC ... but the simple fact is that there are tons of threads that end up as a "if you dont climb my way, do it my way, use my gear, youre gonna die and yr stoooopid" ...
This was not one of those threads until about the second reply here claimed that it was.

Bill L


bearbreeder


Feb 13, 2013, 5:00 PM
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Re: [moose_droppings] Spectra vs. Nylon [In reply to]
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moose_droppings wrote:

I'm complaining about your constant belittling of this site and some of the people you direct it at.

I know that Majid isn't from this country and I don't know of his religion, so no, I'm not going to judge that, since after all this is a rock climbing site.

I agree that there is misinformation floating around, but judging by the stars of a lot of your posts, maybe berating people isn't the best way to be part of the solution you so vehemently detest about this site.

Just give em the straight facts, nuff said.

the straight fact is that most people i see climbing who use dyneema slings ... just use em ... they dont go off taking falls on static materials ... or worrying on RC about it

the ACMG even shows their use in anchor usage

http://vimeo.com/44869774


parks canada banff NP rescue even uses them to secure their climbers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7_4n_4Qhu4

even the safety first AAI uses em to build normal trad anchors



http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.ca/...chors-in-series.html

how many people here would refuse to climb with these ...



or these



or these



if you go off about dyneema for regular climbing, you better not climb on any of the above ...

as for berating ... im not the one telling people they are gonna die if they dont do it my way Wink

Wink


(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Feb 13, 2013, 5:03 PM)


moose_droppings


Feb 13, 2013, 5:11 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Spectra vs. Nylon [In reply to]
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"slack dude, slack"

I'm not telling you what to do, just a suggestion on your delivery.


ClimbOn


acorneau


Feb 13, 2013, 6:17 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:
how many people here would refuse to climb with these ...

or these




FYI: Metolius uses their "Monster Sling" webbing, a blend of nylon (64%) and Dyneema (36%).

I personally chose to use the BW Titan slings which has a similar blend of both nylon and Spectra for the best of both worlds.

Carry on...


bearbreeder


Feb 13, 2013, 6:51 PM
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acorneau wrote:


FYI: Metolius uses their "Monster Sling" webbing, a blend of nylon (64%) and Dyneema (36%).

I personally chose to use the BW Titan slings which has a similar blend of both nylon and Spectra for the best of both worlds.

Carry on...

most "dyneema" slings are a mix ... just a matter of numbers ...

petzl even used dyneema now for the tie in points of their new harness ...


Gmburns2000


Feb 14, 2013, 5:52 AM
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bearbreeder wrote:
acorneau wrote:


FYI: Metolius uses their "Monster Sling" webbing, a blend of nylon (64%) and Dyneema (36%).

I personally chose to use the BW Titan slings which has a similar blend of both nylon and Spectra for the best of both worlds.

Carry on...

most "dyneema" slings are a mix ... just a matter of numbers ...

petzl even used dyneema now for the tie in points of their new harness ...

The big thing for me is how long dyneema lasts. I can't be replacing slings every three years. That adds up.

My choice is nylon because it better represents my usage.


billl7


Feb 14, 2013, 6:01 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
The big thing for me is how long dyneema lasts. I can't be replacing slings every three years. That adds up.

My choice is nylon because it better represents my usage.
I also feel that individual needs are what matter here.

If I were pushing the edge of my climbing ability, where I was really concerned about the weight of my climbing gear, and replacement cost did not matter ... I'd probably carry more dyneema/spectra and my lead ropes would lighter weight (i.e., smaller diameter).

But I'm not. So I've always carried nylon slings.
Bill L


Gmburns2000


Feb 14, 2013, 6:17 AM
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billl7 wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
The big thing for me is how long dyneema lasts. I can't be replacing slings every three years. That adds up.

My choice is nylon because it better represents my usage.
I also feel that individual needs are what matter here.

If I were pushing the edge of my climbing ability, where I was really concerned about the weight of my climbing gear, and replacement cost did not matter ... I'd probably carry more dyneema/spectra and my lead ropes would lighter weight (i.e., smaller diameter).

But I'm not. So I've always carried nylon slings.
Bill L

Which, to be honest, makes me wonder about the vast majority of people out there compared to how much dyneema is available. I know very few people who would really benefit from dyneema on a regular basis.

It makes one wonder why it's so readily available / promoted.


edge


Feb 14, 2013, 6:27 AM
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For all my trad climbing, I carry a combination. Trad draws are mostly made from shoulder length spectra which keeps the bulk down; I am less concerned about weight.

Over the shoulder slings are a couple spectra (nice for threads) and a few knotted nylon supertape which can be broken down and retied as an anchor, etc. I also carry one double length spectra over the shoulder, good for slinging trees or for gear way off line. I do not carry a cordelette or any other PAS. (P.O.S.?)


csproul


Feb 14, 2013, 7:02 AM
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billl7 wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
The big thing for me is how long dyneema lasts. I can't be replacing slings every three years. That adds up.

My choice is nylon because it better represents my usage.
I also feel that individual needs are what matter here.

If I were pushing the edge of my climbing ability, where I was really concerned about the weight of my climbing gear, and replacement cost did not matter ... I'd probably carry more dyneema/spectra and my lead ropes would lighter weight (i.e., smaller diameter).

But I'm not. So I've always carried nylon slings.
Bill L
For me it is not so much a matter of weight as it is bulk. The bulk of 15 nylon runners is noticeably more than that of skinny dyneema.


JimTitt


Feb 14, 2013, 7:34 AM
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Re: [csproul] Spectra vs. Nylon [In reply to]
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Like most climbers I carry a mixture, climbing limestone Dyneema slings are far better for threads and the bulk of all nylon is also a problem if you need to carry half a dozen long slings.
The cost and durability of slings doesn´t interest me in the greater picture of how much I spend going climbing!


bearbreeder


Feb 14, 2013, 8:11 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
The big thing for me is how long dyneema lasts. I can't be replacing slings every three years. That adds up.

My choice is nylon because it better represents my usage.


i replace all my slings every 3-4 years of active climbing regardless of material

ask yourself this ...

do you resling your dyneema slinged cams every 3 years? ... stuff like mastercams, UL TCUs/PC, Zeros, newer aliens, etc ...

if you "worry" about dyneema then you should ... cams are every day use items where the sling runs against other cams when racked, and against edges, rocks, cracks when placed and fallen on ... but in reality no one does in 3 years

heres a fairly common harness line ..... guess what the BELAY loops, an extremely high wear area, is made out of Wink



people use whatever they want ... i use dyneema every day ... but also nylon which i can cheaply leave for bailing, or use as aiders for the occasional aid move ...

it is fairly hilarious when someone in the bluffs talks loudly about the deadly dyneema, yet their rack is full of dyneema slinged cams

Tongue


billl7


Feb 14, 2013, 8:16 AM
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csproul wrote:
For me it is not so much a matter of weight as it is bulk. The bulk of 15 nylon runners is noticeably more than that of skinny dyneema.
They are indeed bulky. In fact, if you hang 15 or so total on the front gear loops and sort of spread them out on your thighs, it looks like a revealing yet colorful skirt!

Edit: Just try to do that with your butt floss. ;-)

Bill L


(This post was edited by billl7 on Feb 14, 2013, 8:17 AM)


Gmburns2000


Feb 14, 2013, 8:42 AM
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bearbreeder wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
The big thing for me is how long dyneema lasts. I can't be replacing slings every three years. That adds up.

My choice is nylon because it better represents my usage.


i replace all my slings every 3-4 years of active climbing regardless of material

ask yourself this ...

do you resling your dyneema slinged cams every 3 years? ... stuff like mastercams, UL TCUs/PC, Zeros, newer aliens, etc ...

if you "worry" about dyneema then you should ... cams are every day use items where the sling runs against other cams when racked, and against edges, rocks, cracks when placed and fallen on ... but in reality no one does in 3 years

heres a fairly common harness line ..... guess what the BELAY loops, an extremely high wear area, is made out of Wink

[image]http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/images/Safe-Tech-Trad-lrg.jpg[/image]

people use whatever they want ... i use dyneema every day ... but also nylon which i can cheaply leave for bailing, or use as aiders for the occasional aid move ...

it is fairly hilarious when someone in the bluffs talks loudly about the deadly dyneema, yet their rack is full of dyneema slinged cams

Tongue

I don't have any cams with dyneema slings, nor a harness with it either. So no problem there for me.

Also, I rarely clip directly to the cam. I prefer to extend it, for various reasons depending on the circumstances that are mostly dictated by where and the type of routes I climb. So even if they had dyneema slings, I wouldn't use them much except to clip to my harness.

I'm curious as to what metolius says the life-span of the belay loop is, and what the nylon / dyneema split is.


Gmburns2000


Feb 14, 2013, 8:47 AM
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csproul wrote:
billl7 wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
The big thing for me is how long dyneema lasts. I can't be replacing slings every three years. That adds up.

My choice is nylon because it better represents my usage.
I also feel that individual needs are what matter here.

If I were pushing the edge of my climbing ability, where I was really concerned about the weight of my climbing gear, and replacement cost did not matter ... I'd probably carry more dyneema/spectra and my lead ropes would lighter weight (i.e., smaller diameter).

But I'm not. So I've always carried nylon slings.
Bill L
For me it is not so much a matter of weight as it is bulk. The bulk of 15 nylon runners is noticeably more than that of skinny dyneema.

for whatever reason, I've always had a problem tightening my harness enough to keep it from falling down too much on to my hips (and thus pushing my pants half-way down my ass).

As a result of this, I went with with the BD Big Wall gear sling to help save weight on my waist, so I don't have a problem with bulk on my harness that much.


bearbreeder


Feb 14, 2013, 8:56 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
Also, I rarely clip directly to the cam. I prefer to extend it, for various reasons depending on the circumstances that are mostly dictated by where and the type of routes I climb. So even if they had dyneema slings, I wouldn't use them much except to clip to my harness.

doesnt matter ... it still wears out and rubs against the rock .. when the rope moves, and when you fall ... not to mention the time in the sun

you dont clip directly to the thumb loop do you? ... go out and replace em Tongue

i usually extend my camalots, yet after a few years the slings are worn, and time to be replaced after this season ...

theres a lot of "issues" floating around the internet about dyneema ... a telling sign is that most manufacturers are moving TOWARDS using more dyneema .. in daily use high wear items like harnesses

many manufacturers made the move years ago for cam and hex slings ... when was the last time you heard about one of those breaking (not being cut) in a real life fall

Wink


(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Feb 14, 2013, 8:58 AM)

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