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Libbster
Feb 13, 2013, 8:53 AM
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So I was going to start and practicing cleaning routes in my local rock gym. What should I be using for personal anchor. Some say use a daisy chain some say don't
Is this the same as a daisy chain? http://www.backcountry.com/metolius-pas-personal-anchor-system-w-element-locking-carabiner-met0362
Should I use something like this PAS?
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gblauer
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Feb 13, 2013, 9:10 AM
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I doubt your gym will let you do that. Too much liability.
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lena_chita
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Feb 13, 2013, 9:11 AM
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Nobody will let you to just start practicing this at a gym without taking some kind of class. So, instead of asking here, ask at the gym about taking a class, and in the class they will tell you exactly what they recommend, and/or what they allow people to use in their gym.
It is unlikely to be a daisy chain. and PAS is designed for a different type of climbing, though people who have one can certainly choose to use it for this.
most likely, they will have you use quickdraws, or slings girth-hitched to your harness with locking 'biners on the other side.
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bearbreeder
Feb 13, 2013, 9:26 AM
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1. mount 2 chains on a fence post ...
2. practice on that over and over again
3. go to a real crag with an experienced person
4. get him to double check how you do it
5. practice over and over again
6. go on RC and tell everyone the many ways they are going to die if they dont do exactly as you do 
a lot of eff ups isnt
with the cleaning itself but miscommunication
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jeepnphreak
Feb 14, 2013, 8:19 AM
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1, as bear said practice on the ground first, the concepts are the exact as if you are 100 feet up.
and SECOND, LEARN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A DAISY CHAIN AND A PAS. A DAISY IS FOR AID CLIMBING ONLY AND A PAS IS A PERSONAL ANCHOR. A PAS HAS FULLY RATED LOOPS WHERE AS A DAISY IS OLNY FILLY RATED AT THE ENDS, THE LOOPS ARE ONLY 2-3 KN EACH.
TWO YEARS A AGO I WAS 1 ROUTE OVER FROM A GROUP, CLIMBER "A" HAD A DAISY AND CLIPED THE TACK BAR WHILE CLEANING AND SLIPED, THE STITCH BROKE AND THE CLIMBER DECKED FROM 50 FEET UP. THE BINER WAS STILL ON THE ANCHOR ABOVE. HE DID NOT DIE BUT IS WAS BAD
THAT IS NOT SOMETHING ONE EVER HAS TO WHITNESSES.
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cracklover
Feb 14, 2013, 2:12 PM
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Libbster wrote: So I was going to start and practicing cleaning routes in my local rock gym. What should I be using for personal anchor. Some say use a daisy chain some say don't Is this the same as a daisy chain? http://www.backcountry.com/metolius-pas-personal-anchor-system-w-element-locking-carabiner-met0362 Should I use something like this PAS?
Cleaning routes? You don't need a personal anchor. You unclip all the biners until you get to the anchor. You don't unclip from those. And then you lower. Same as toproping, aside from the unclipping part.
GO
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BillyCrook
Feb 15, 2013, 9:01 AM
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Libbster wrote: So I was going to start and practicing cleaning routes in my local rock gym. What should I be using for personal anchor.
Direct anchor. When you 'go in, direct', you should use two of whatever you're comfortable with really. I use one PAS girthed around both harness loops, and one quickdraw from the belay loop. I like attaching the PAS first, because I keep two FS Mini's on the last link, wrap it around my waist and tuck it in like a towel. This way it's instant to get it out and clip it in. Then I shorten it as needed with the second biner. Once the PAS is on one anchor, I use a QD for the other anchor.
Some people use two long slings to go in direct, girth hitched around both horizontal harness loops.
Some people use just quickdraws. They work, but they're short, and can't attach to both harness loops like a girth hitched PAS or sling can.
Some people want locking biners for security sake. I prefer tiny wiregates because they are quicker and going in direct is temporary anyway.
Libbster wrote: Some say use a daisy chain some say don't
Don't. Daisy chains are obsolete. I'm surprised they're even still sold. The best use for them I've heard of, is "as a gear sling"!
Libbster wrote: Is this the same as a daisy chain? http://www.backcountry.com/metolius-pas-personal-anchor-system-w-element-locking-carabiner-met0362 Should I use something like this PAS?
Yes, the Metoleus PAS above is great. It is not the same as a daisy chain. It is the replacement for the daisy chain.
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csproul
Feb 15, 2013, 9:08 AM
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BillyCrook wrote: Daisy chains are obsolete. I'm surprised they're even still sold. The best use for them I've heard of, is "as a gear sling"!.
For cleaning anchors at the top of routes, yes. For aid climbing...not so much.
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BillyCrook
Feb 15, 2013, 9:15 AM
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csproul wrote: BillyCrook wrote: Daisy chains are obsolete. I'm surprised they're even still sold. The best use for them I've heard of, is "as a gear sling"!. For cleaning anchors at the top of routes, yes. For aid climbing...not so much.
OP was asking about anchors, and didn't mention aid at all. Curious though, how are daisy's better than dynema chains for aid? (aside from cost)
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csproul
Feb 15, 2013, 9:47 AM
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BillyCrook wrote: csproul wrote: BillyCrook wrote: Daisy chains are obsolete. I'm surprised they're even still sold. The best use for them I've heard of, is "as a gear sling"!. For cleaning anchors at the top of routes, yes. For aid climbing...not so much. OP was asking about anchors, and didn't mention aid at all. Curious though, how are daisy's better than dynema chains for aid? (aside from cost)
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bearbreeder
Feb 15, 2013, 10:01 AM
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i use a daisy occasionally to set up raps/lowers ... course i only clip one pocket at a time
does this mean im going to die a horrible RC induced death
what people say on the intraweb forums, and what happens in the real world every day are quite different
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chadnsc
Feb 15, 2013, 12:44 PM
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bearbreeder wrote: i use a daisy occasionally to set up raps/lowers ... course i only clip one pocket at a time does this mean im going to die a horrible RC induced death what people say on the intraweb forums, and what happens in the real world every day are quite different
So what you're saying is that you don't actually climb much and simply post BS here; a site that you dislike and ridicule?
Actually that makes a lot of sense!
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bearbreeder
Feb 15, 2013, 1:17 PM
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chadnsc wrote: bearbreeder wrote: i use a daisy occasionally to set up raps/lowers ... course i only clip one pocket at a time does this mean im going to die a horrible RC induced death what people say on the intraweb forums, and what happens in the real world every day are quite different So what you're saying is that you don't actually climb much and simply post BS here; a site that you dislike and ridicule? Actually that makes a lot of sense!
Im doing a few tr solo laps in the bluffs as i type this little chaddy
Why dont you post up some pics of your trad leads from last week which im sure you have as a hardcore RCer
Ill post up mine when i get back to a real puter
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chadnsc
Feb 15, 2013, 1:35 PM
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bearbreeder wrote: chadnsc wrote: bearbreeder wrote: i use a daisy occasionally to set up raps/lowers ... course i only clip one pocket at a time does this mean im going to die a horrible RC induced death what people say on the intraweb forums, and what happens in the real world every day are quite different So what you're saying is that you don't actually climb much and simply post BS here; a site that you dislike and ridicule? Actually that makes a lot of sense! Im doing a few tr solo laps in the bluffs as i type this little chaddy Why dont you post up some pics of your trad leads from last week which im sure you have as a hardcore RCer Ill post up mine when i get back to a real puter
Sure you are. Sure. T0
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bearbreeder
Feb 15, 2013, 2:01 PM
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No pics from last week?
Whuddah sad little boi u r
Im jumping on fear of flying right now ... A nice soft slab ... U can google it and ill post a pic with my feelings for ya babiii tonight
Are ya leading on reel rock today? This week perhaps? This month?
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majid_sabet
Feb 15, 2013, 2:06 PM
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chadnsc wrote: bearbreeder wrote: i use a daisy occasionally to set up raps/lowers ... course i only clip one pocket at a time does this mean im going to die a horrible RC induced death what people say on the intraweb forums, and what happens in the real world every day are quite different So what you're saying is that you don't actually climb much and simply post BS here; a site that you dislike and ridicule? Actually that makes a lot of sense!
yep, his has been BSing us all along and sad part is that he understands some climbing
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bearbreeder
Feb 15, 2013, 2:13 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: chadnsc wrote: bearbreeder wrote: i use a daisy occasionally to set up raps/lowers ... course i only clip one pocket at a time does this mean im going to die a horrible RC induced death what people say on the intraweb forums, and what happens in the real world every day are quite different So what you're saying is that you don't actually climb much and simply post BS here; a site that you dislike and ridicule? Actually that makes a lot of sense! yep, his has been BSing us all along and sad part is that he understands some climbing
says thr little gurl hater who doesnt even climb
Why dont u post pics of of whatever TRAD LEAD you did this week mahhjeed
After all you are a RC climbing "expert" ... Or a hypocrit who cant even lead a 5.8
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BillyCrook
Feb 15, 2013, 7:08 PM
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bearbreeder wrote: Why dont u post pics of of whatever TRAD LEAD you did this week mahhjeed
Yes. Pose for a camera to demonstrate you're a proficient climber. Don't forget to hold a ruler up to your dick too.
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bearbreeder
Feb 15, 2013, 7:43 PM
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awww ... pooh biwwie iz sad that he didnt climb on reel rock lately ... why dont YOU post up some of the "poses" you did this month on rock, not on RC
fear of flying soft 11a slab/face from today ... im pointing out the route to ya
at the top with my deadly non-rc approved setup ... note the 40$ el cheapo rock pillar shoes, 20$ harness which im testing out .. and the deadly dyneema PAS
lets you think im a toppu roperu tofu guy ... ill prove that i "pose" for those pics on lead so that i can "pretend" to be a REAL RC climber ... all photos from the weekend ... if you climb in squamish youll know these climbs
the softest "11a" micro wire crack youll ever do ... its 5.9 with the right beta
soft 11- crack/face ... two move wonder
fairly rated mid 10 flake ...
biatch of a 12- underclinb/face climb ... note the wet streak at the right for the crux footholds ... had to bail in shame
i can dig up more from the weekend ... but FIRST i want you and a few people above to post what THEY DID this month
im a shitty ass lazy climber whos effing weak right now ...
you can call me weak, but you better climb harder than me
you can call me afraid of my own shadow, but you better take more whippers than me
you can call me a non-climber poser if you want, but you damn well better climb MORE than me ...
so go ahead and show us how much you climbed this week, since you folks are the "experts"
and just for you little billie ... i expect you to start emailing these 2 gumbies about how they are going to die from their deadly daisies ... theyre probably too busy climbing to care, but you can find em on the dawn wall this fall
(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Feb 15, 2013, 7:50 PM)
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jt512
Feb 15, 2013, 8:30 PM
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jeepnphreak wrote: 1, as bear said practice on the ground first, the concepts are the exact as if you are 100 feet up. and SECOND, LEARN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A DAISY CHAIN AND A PAS. A DAISY IS FOR AID CLIMBING ONLY AND A PAS IS A PERSONAL ANCHOR. A PAS HAS FULLY RATED LOOPS WHERE AS A DAISY IS OLNY FILLY RATED AT THE ENDS, THE LOOPS ARE ONLY 2-3 KN EACH. TWO YEARS A AGO I WAS 1 ROUTE OVER FROM A GROUP, CLIMBER "A" HAD A DAISY AND CLIPED THE TACK BAR WHILE CLEANING AND SLIPED, THE STITCH BROKE AND THE CLIMBER DECKED FROM 50 FEET UP. THE BINER WAS STILL ON THE ANCHOR ABOVE. HE DID NOT DIE BUT IS WAS BAD THAT IS NOT SOMETHING ONE EVER HAS TO WHITNESSES.
Interesting post. The language has a vague resemblance to English.
Jay
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BillyCrook
Feb 15, 2013, 9:09 PM
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bearbreeder wrote: why dont YOU post up some of the "poses" you did this month on rock
Nice pics. thanks. keep em coming.
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chadnsc
Feb 16, 2013, 6:46 AM
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bearbreeder wrote: im a shitty ass lazy climber whos effing weak right now ... you can call me weak, but you better climb harder than me you can call me afraid of my own shadow, but you better take more whippers than me you can call me a non-climber poser if you want, but you damn well better climb MORE than me ... so go ahead and show us how much you climbed this week, since you folks are the "experts"
You really have a lot of your self worth and ego wrapped up in climbing. You're seriously defending your climbing to a bunch of anonymous people on a climbing site that you yourself troll and view as a joke?
Get some help man.
While a good rant you're contradicting yourself too much. This can be a good troll tactic but try being a bit more subtle.
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csproul
Feb 16, 2013, 8:20 AM
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You and I both know climbers with years of experience that climb pretty hard that have some less than ideal habits and practices. I can personally tell you about plenty of good climbers with decades of experience that have shitty belay practices or do some things I regard as sketchy. Sure, I don't go around telling them that they're going to die, but I sure as hell speak up if I think they're going to impact MY safety. Climbing ability, mileage, and experience are important...but they are not the be-all end-all of my decision making. I like to try to make informed decisions based on available data as well as my and other's experience. It's called thinking for yourself and not just following whatever Tommy is doing on Dawn Wall. You can post all the pictures you like of how much and how hard you climb, but I'll take the opinion of someone like rgold over yours any day...someone with experience and the ability to rationally support their choices and not say it must be ok since you climb more pitches and climb harder than anyone else. You really have stooped to the same bullshit that you have accused Jay of.
BTW how is there that much sun in Squamish, especially this time of year? I thought it rained there all the time!? Hell, it's even snowing in North Carolina right now.
(This post was edited by csproul on Feb 16, 2013, 8:21 AM)
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bearbreeder
Feb 16, 2013, 9:00 AM
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chadnsc wrote: bearbreeder wrote: im a shitty ass lazy climber whos effing weak right now ... you can call me weak, but you better climb harder than me you can call me afraid of my own shadow, but you better take more whippers than me you can call me a non-climber poser if you want, but you damn well better climb MORE than me ... so go ahead and show us how much you climbed this week, since you folks are the "experts" You really have a lot of your self worth and ego wrapped up in climbing. You're seriously defending your climbing to a bunch of anonymous people on a climbing site that you yourself troll and view as a joke? Get some help man. While a good rant you're contradicting yourself too much. This can be a good troll tactic but try being a bit more subtle.
if youre going to tell people they dont climb little dimped chad
you better be out climbing more ... ya little hypocrit ...
i noticed you posted NON rockclimbing photos ... pot calling the kettle black
utter and total contempt
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