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chadnsc


Feb 21, 2013, 11:36 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Did you fix your cheesetit then? Laugh


I did, thank you.

But see, we are now derailing this thread by completely unneeded back-and-forth bantering.

So? Is it rude or offensive? Does it involve childish name calling? How about an obvious troll?

See I have nothing against thread drift, that's how conversations work.

YOU have nothing against the thread drift, but njrox does. (see his post above)

So right away, you can see that even though you guys started by agreeing with each other ,you two have very different ideas of what constitutes "good" moderation.

And that's just two people.

I understand that, you can't please everyone. Also I believe that njrox was referring to the thread drift that takes place when people attack each other in a pissing contest. Correct me if I'm incorrect though.

Regardless' I'm only commenting on people here conducting themselves with some shred of civility and dignity instead of acting like spoiled children who want attention.


lena_chita
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Feb 21, 2013, 11:40 AM
Post #52 of 69 (1282 views)
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Re: [njrox] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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njrox wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
lena_chita wrote:

What would you like the moderators to do?

I dunno, how about removing the aforementioned 'pissing' contests from threads?

Maybe not standing for the childish name calling?

How about this, would you let someone act / talk like they do here in person? If not don't stand for it here.

Yeah, that sounds like a good start. I mean, isn't that would mods should be doing?

I will say again that I rarely use RC.com anymore because it's a website (forum) overrun by bullies who just want to prove their point while degrading someone else's statements/opinions. Almost everyt thread ends up going off topic. I read/follow/post/discuss topics on other sites daily and don't come across half the nonsense that I do here. It's like grade school playground arguing vs. college classroom debating. I don't want to discuss rock climbing here because 9 out 10 times discussions turn to insults and the whole thread goes off topic. You don't make friends here. You want a user's feedback on your site? Well, there it is.

I can see this already becoming yet another RC.com pissing contest so I'm not going to add any more fuel to the fire. You can take my statement for what it's worth (accept that's how I feel, and deal with it) or you can post reply after reply breaking down every little thing I said and defend, argue, and belittle it (typical RC.com responses to anything not found to be agreeable).

Which part do you consider pissing contest? I honestly would like to understand what you mean by it, because while I see multiple posts deviating from the original subject, I didn't see pissing contest, so my definition of it must be different from yours.

I think it is good that you have spoken up. I am sure there are people who agree with you, and there are people who don't. Ultimately, the site (any forum, not just RC.com) evolves because people who like it stick around, and contribute more of the type of content that they like, which drives away other people more.

the truth is, most people who hang out on RC.com ALSO check out, read, respond to other climbing-related forums. And if each forum develops different sub-flavor... well, there are people who like multiple things, so they go to one forum for one thing, and to another forum for something else.

Personal experience varies, always. I happen to have made some good friends on this site, but I might have easily met them on other sites, too. It was a pure chance that I first logged in to RC.com, because someone told me that the information about the accident involving someone I knew was posted here.


chadnsc


Feb 21, 2013, 11:52 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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First off, I want to thank you for being so civil and listing to the criticisms I have of the site. I know your's is a hard, thankless job and that 99% of the contact you get with site members is negative. Thank you for volunteering your time here.

As for what defines a 'pissing contest' that is a hard one. I personally would define it as two people going at it just to show superiority and belittle those that don't agree. They're not arguing to convey a point, they're arguing to make the other person look bad and to make themselves look/ feel better.

A prime example of this for me would be the interaction between bearbreeder and jt512 about daisy chains.


njrox


Feb 21, 2013, 11:54 AM
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Re: [chadnsc] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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Yes, chadnsc, that's what I was referring to.

And I agree with csproul about Mountain Project having a much more controlled, on-topic, and civilized forum. In fact, MP is the reason why I hardly ever visit RC.com anymore.

I wouldn't think of asking the same questions or posting the same topics I do on MP here. RC.com is unfriendly and volitile. There's really no other way to say it.

If your a moderator or "manager" of the content that ends up on this forum, you ought to feel responsible when users complain about how this site is being managed because it's your job to.


lena_chita
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Feb 21, 2013, 12:00 PM
Post #55 of 69 (1271 views)
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Re: [chadnsc] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
It's good to know that these are your views and no the sites. It is worth pointing out that the mods are the face of this site and your posts represent the site management.

Wouldn't being a combative jerk be categorized at rude?

If you and I where talking about the average grade of sport climbs across the country and someone jumped in and said 'you don't know shit Lena, only a weakling would think most sport climbs are rated 5.?'

Wouldn't you call that being rude, offensive, and inappropriate? I would.

My threshold for being offended must be pretty high, because that imaginary example would make me laugh, and not take offense.

Yes, if the subject of discussion is 'What is the average grade of climbs in the United States?", then i would like to see some statistics (such as people jumping in to point out that there is a grade distribution chart of all climbs at the Red River Gorge on redriverclimbing.com website), and not name-calling.

But if someone jumps in to say that you don't know shit, and doesn't contribute anything useful, most people can and do mark that person as a combative jerk not to listen to, and move on past it.

But it goes back to how you decide what contribution is good-enough to keep, and which one isn't?

What if the guy jumped in and said, you don't know shit, the grade distribution at the Red is in no way indicative of the grade distribution at Wild Iris?

Sure, shit part wasn't needed, but the rest of it? I have never climbed at Wild Iris, maybe he is completely correct, the distribution of the grades at the Red is skewed, and the distribution of the grades at place X much more closely mirrors the distribution of grades in the entire country? (I personally wouldn't know)

Should that post be removed just because the word shit was used? What if the rest of it was factually correct?


lena_chita
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Feb 21, 2013, 12:08 PM
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Re: [njrox] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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njrox wrote:
Yes, chadnsc, that's what I was referring to.

And I agree with csproul about Mountain Project having a much more controlled, on-topic, and civilized forum. In fact, MP is the reason why I hardly ever visit RC.com anymore.

I wouldn't think of asking the same questions or posting the same topics I do on MP here. RC.com is unfriendly and volitile. There's really no other way to say it.

If your a moderator or "manager" of the content that ends up on this forum, you ought to feel responsible when users complain about how this site is being managed because it's your job to.

So, when you said that THIS THREAD is deteriorating into pissing contest, what exactly were you referring to?

Yes, I do have a general understanding of what pissing contest is, but I didn't see it in THIS thread, yet you said it was going there.

We have already drifted, topic-wise... And I have contributed to that topic drift, but then, so have you.

If I am a moderator reading this thread, where, in your opinion, should I step in? It seems that the very act of me posting all of this constitutes nit-picking on YOU, or it could be interpreted that way by some people...


Kartessa


Feb 21, 2013, 12:13 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
But if someone jumps in to say that you don't know shit, and doesn't contribute anything useful, most people can and do mark that person as a combative jerk not to listen to, and move on past it.

I pick people like that to be my playmates


lena_chita
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Feb 21, 2013, 12:14 PM
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Re: [chadnsc] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
First off, I want to thank you for being so civil and listing to the criticisms I have of the site. I know your's is a hard, thankless job and that 99% of the contact you get with site members is negative. Thank you for volunteering your time here.

As for what defines a 'pissing contest' that is a hard one. I personally would define it as two people going at it just to show superiority and belittle those that don't agree. They're not arguing to convey a point, they're arguing to make the other person look bad and to make themselves look/ feel better.

A prime example of this for me would be the interaction between bearbreeder and jt512 about daisy chains.

Yes, I can see that. IMO, bearbreeder's contributions in that thread, while factually not too wrong, have been unnecessary. A guy asking whether to buy a daisy chain or a PAS to clean a sport climb was told that he needs neither.

After the first couple responses, that thread was done, as far as useful factual information.

I will ask the opinion of other moderators/administrators. My understanding of the policy is that this thread, while full ounneeded and combative back-and-forth, did not violate any rules of conduct.


bearbreeder


Feb 21, 2013, 12:18 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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mmmm ... keep in mind that some of the complainers are just as guilty of these "rude" post ... on that particular thread as well

Wink


curt


Feb 21, 2013, 12:24 PM
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Re: [njrox] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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njrox wrote:
...I agree with csproul about Mountain Project having a much more controlled, on-topic, and civilized forum. In fact, MP is the reason why I hardly ever visit RC.com anymore.

I wouldn't think of asking the same questions or posting the same topics I do on MP here. RC.com is unfriendly and volitile. There's really no other way to say it...

You clearly missed csproul's point altogether. Here it is again with some highlighting to emphasize the point he was actually trying to make:

csproul wrote:
Better moderating doesn't necessarily fix the problem either. Look at Mountainproject. I'd say that there is more moderating of posts over there than here and that some (not all) of the negative bullshit is kept in check there. But there is just as much misinformation spread over there as there is here, only people get called out on much less and much less aggressively. So it's a "happier" place to be in that I think they are less tolerant of trolling and name calling and such...but at the same time, misinformed posts and "facts" are perpetuated just as much or more than here. I think there is something to be said for getting a smackdown when you say stupid shit...

Don't confuse a low tolerance for stupidity with being uncivil.

Curt


njrox


Feb 21, 2013, 12:29 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
njrox wrote:
Yes, chadnsc, that's what I was referring to.

And I agree with csproul about Mountain Project having a much more controlled, on-topic, and civilized forum. In fact, MP is the reason why I hardly ever visit RC.com anymore.

I wouldn't think of asking the same questions or posting the same topics I do on MP here. RC.com is unfriendly and volitile. There's really no other way to say it.

If your a moderator or "manager" of the content that ends up on this forum, you ought to feel responsible when users complain about how this site is being managed because it's your job to.

So, when you said that THIS THREAD is deteriorating into pissing contest, what exactly were you referring to?

Yes, I do have a general understanding of what pissing contest is, but I didn't see it in THIS thread, yet you said it was going there.

We have already drifted, topic-wise... And I have contributed to that topic drift, but then, so have you.

If I am a moderator reading this thread, where, in your opinion, should I step in? It seems that the very act of me posting all of this constitutes nit-picking on YOU, or it could be interpreted that way by some people...

Well, Lena, you are a forum moderator. You ought to, excuse me, you should know when to step in.

Anyway, I'm done with this. I think I've said all that I wanted to say. How this site is run, or moderated, isn't my concern. It is what it is. All I know is that it's nice and cold outside, and there's ice to be climbed this weekend. So, I'm going to visit another website to discuss this weekend's conditions and read about what's been happening.

Get what I'm saying???


chadnsc


Feb 21, 2013, 1:53 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
mmmm ... keep in mind that some of the complainers are just as guilty of these "rude" post ... on that particular thread as well

Wink

Yup, and we ALL should behave better.

Myself included.


jt512


Feb 21, 2013, 2:18 PM
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Re: [chadnsc] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
They're not arguing to convey a point, they're arguing to make the other person look bad and to make themselves look/ feel better.

A prime example of this for me would be the interaction between bearbreeder and jt512 about daisy chains.

Except that's not what I was doing. Re-read my posts. I made a claim, backed it up with evidence, and then when challenged by bearbreeder, explained the flaws in his logic. Bearbreeder accused me twice in that thread of posting only "because [I] have to be right," whatever that actually means, and you have essentially just made the same accusation, not only of me, but of bearbreeder. Believe it or not, I don't think that's why he posts either. Rather, I think he actually believes what he posts. However, I†think he is fundamentally wrong about the (lack of) value of the discussions we have here. As rgold said, we don't really know in advance where discussions will lead or which will end up proving to be valuable in the long run.

Jay


jt512


Feb 21, 2013, 4:21 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
First off, I want to thank you for being so civil and listing to the criticisms I have of the site. I know your's is a hard, thankless job and that 99% of the contact you get with site members is negative. Thank you for volunteering your time here.

As for what defines a 'pissing contest' that is a hard one. I personally would define it as two people going at it just to show superiority and belittle those that don't agree. They're not arguing to convey a point, they're arguing to make the other person look bad and to make themselves look/ feel better.

A prime example of this for me would be the interaction between bearbreeder and jt512 about daisy chains.

Yes, I can see that. IMO, bearbreeder's contributions in that thread, while factually not too wrong, have been unnecessary. A guy asking whether to buy a daisy chain or a PAS to clean a sport climb was told that he needs neither.

After the first couple responses, that thread was done, as far as useful factual information..

Well, I disagree. Every few years the Internet needs to be reminded of Chris Harmston's cardinal post about the possibility of daisy failure when the daisy is properly clipped.

Jay


bearbreeder


Feb 21, 2013, 4:56 PM
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Re: [jt512] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
Well, I disagree. Every few years the Internet needs to be reminded of Chris Harmston's cardinal post about the possibility of daisy failure when the daisy is properly clipped.

Jay

not quite anything more to say is there?

in the new spirit of non-rudeness i whole heartily support this decision about the deadly nature of deadly daisies clipped to a single pocket and FF2 falls ... its a known killer of people using them for cleaning

i cant stop counting the bodies that are littering the base of the crag because of it

Angelic


jt512


Feb 21, 2013, 5:41 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Well, I disagree. Every few years the Internet needs to be reminded of Chris Harmston's cardinal post about the possibility of daisy failure when the daisy is properly clipped.

Jay

not quite anything more to say is there?

No, there is isn't, but that didn't stop you:

You still wrote:
in the new spirit of non-rudeness i whole heartily support this decision about the deadly nature of deadly daisies clipped to a single pocket and FF2 falls ... its a known killer of people using them for cleaning

i cant stop counting the bodies that are littering the base of the crag because of it

Angelic


Partner robdotcalm


Feb 21, 2013, 8:21 PM
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Re: [njrox] Rudeness works [In reply to]
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njrox wrote:
And I agree with csproul about Mountain Project having a much more controlled, on-topic, and civilized forum. In fact, MP is the reason why I hardly ever visit RC.com anymore.

I wouldn't think of asking the same questions or posting the same topics I do on MP here. RC.com is unfriendly and volitile. There's really no other way to say it.

If your a moderator or "manager" of the content that ends up on this forum, you ought to feel responsible when users complain about how this site is being managed because it's your job to.


I really donít find much difference in the quality of discussions between this site and Mountain Project. To consider this I just went to MP and found a truly fatuous discussion concerning Ivan Greenís chipping and manufacturing a route I havenít seen anything here as personally insulting and vulgar as this:

ďThanks, Killis. Im glad your grandstanding on MP and I except your twattishness, Its nice to know your seriously fucked and a Urban shithead from Vegas. Im sorry you got molested by your mom though, thats pretty ruff. But at least you got molested by a nice twat like you mom's.Ē

MP has become the principal site for route information and finding partners for which this site is now rarely used. Also, itís a lot easier to post pictures there and create links. RC is last century as far as this goes. However, itís inconvenient following a long thread on MP as it does not direct one to the new posts on a followed thread as occurs here. Thus, Iím very seldom inclined to follow a long thread on MP, and anyway after the first page little new is said as the insults, repititions and irrelevancies mount.

Rob.calm


wonderwoman


Feb 22, 2013, 7:39 AM
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chadnsc wrote:
curt wrote:
njrox wrote:
...The mods here suck. They let topics go wild and turn into back-and-forth battles that really turn people off from having intelligent discussions. Other rock climbing sites, you see this a lot less. And again, I think it's because their names aren't as obvious as "rockclimbing.com" so there are less uneducated climbers. In fact, I see on other sites people using their real names and regularly selling gear, which would provide personal info...

Are you claiming that your real name is njrox? Oh well, nobody uses their real name here. Cool

Curt

Only you and I Curt, only you and I.

Says you. I demand to be called wonderwoman in real life, too.

That being said, we gave people a handy-dandy 'report this post' button to call moderators attention to inappropriate content / personal attacks. Since we cannot all be everywhere at once, we encourage people to utilize it when they see something.


Partner cracklover


Feb 22, 2013, 9:16 AM
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robdotcalm wrote:
njrox wrote:
And I agree with csproul about Mountain Project having a much more controlled, on-topic, and civilized forum. In fact, MP is the reason why I hardly ever visit RC.com anymore.

I wouldn't think of asking the same questions or posting the same topics I do on MP here. RC.com is unfriendly and volitile. There's really no other way to say it.

If your a moderator or "manager" of the content that ends up on this forum, you ought to feel responsible when users complain about how this site is being managed because it's your job to.


I really donít find much difference in the quality of discussions between this site and Mountain Project. To consider this I just went to MP and found a truly fatuous discussion concerning Ivan Greenís chipping and manufacturing a route I havenít seen anything here as personally insulting and vulgar as this:

ďThanks, Killis. Im glad your grandstanding on MP and I except your twattishness, Its nice to know your seriously fucked and a Urban shithead from Vegas. Im sorry you got molested by your mom though, thats pretty ruff. But at least you got molested by a nice twat like you mom's.Ē

MP has become the principal site for route information and finding partners for which this site is now rarely used. Also, itís a lot easier to post pictures there and create links. RC is last century as far as this goes. However, itís inconvenient following a long thread on MP as it does not direct one to the new posts on a followed thread as occurs here. Thus, Iím very seldom inclined to follow a long thread on MP, and anyway after the first page little new is said as the insults, repititions and irrelevancies mount.

Rob.calm

I couldn't agree more. I find MP and RC (and, for that matter, the Taco) to be equally childish. They're just each childish in their own special way. Even so, each is capable of hosting worthwhile discussions. And for that matter, each is capable of hosting entertaining drama-fests. In between, there's a lot of noise on all of 'em. So what?

Even before www climbing forums, threads on the wreck were getting derailed left and right by trolls, big egos, and stubborn fools. Same as here, and same as whatever will come next.

GO

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