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Mark_25


Feb 28, 2013, 8:45 AM
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Top Rope anchor dynamic?
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I am new to making my own top rope anchors off of natural points and was always under the impression that static ropes should be used for anchors. At my local climbing store the clerk suggested a Rando 8mm Twin dry rope. (http://bealplanet.com/sport/anglais/corde-rando.php). I figured it was static but once home realized it is dynamic. Will this be alright as a top rope anchor?

(This post was edited by Mark_25 on Feb 28, 2013, 8:57 AM)


marc801


Feb 28, 2013, 9:33 AM
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Re: [Mark_25] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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Yes, it's fine.

But as we all know.......




YER GONNA DIE!


csproul


Feb 28, 2013, 10:30 AM
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Re: [Mark_25] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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Not the best choice IMO..but it'll work if you don't do something stupid. Be sure to account for any stretch in the anchor rope, it could be significant with such a thin dynamic cord. Also be careful that you account for possible abrasion over an edge; I'd be willing to bet that such a thin dynamic cord is not very abrasion resistant (again, not a good quality for a TR anchor rope IMO).


dancottle


Feb 28, 2013, 11:06 AM
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Re: [Mark_25] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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I wouldn't use it. Its going to stretch when weighted leading to excess wear if its over an edge etc


wivanoff


Feb 28, 2013, 11:41 AM
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Re: [Mark_25] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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I use some old 8.8mm Beal dynamic rope for TR anchors.

Get a few feet of 1" tubular webbing and slip it over the rope for an edge protector.


bearbreeder


Feb 28, 2013, 11:57 AM
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Re: [wivanoff] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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im just waiting for it to be "declared" unsafe by some RCers ...

at which point anyone who anchors in with the rope will be "dead"

just protect any edges and account for stretch, and have redundancy ... and you wont die ;)


Syd


Feb 28, 2013, 9:03 PM
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Re: [Mark_25] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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It is less than ideal. Statics (white colored) around 10 - 11 mm are best.

Make sure you use rope protectors and always have two independent anchors.


marc801


Feb 28, 2013, 10:28 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
im just waiting for it to be "declared" unsafe by some RCers ...
So far, three responses here had people wagging their naive little fingers saying "don't do it" and "I wouldn't use it" so I think we've already attained that declaration.
For fuck's sake, it's just a goddamned top rope anchor. Dynamic or static rope doesn't matter one bit (assuming a well constructed anchor and appropriate redundancy).


bearbreeder


Feb 28, 2013, 10:44 PM
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Re: [marc801] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
So far, three responses here had people wagging their naive little fingers saying "don't do it" and "I wouldn't use it" so I think we've already attained that declaration.
For fuck's sake, it's just a goddamned top rope anchor. Dynamic or static rope doesn't matter one bit (assuming a well constructed anchor and appropriate redundancy).


http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.ca/...rope-in-anchors.html

Wink


meanandugly


Mar 1, 2013, 3:44 AM
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Re: [Mark_25] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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I am super dangerous with my toprope anchors and use webbing.
Like was said eariler, its not the best choice, but its fine.


(This post was edited by meanandugly on Mar 1, 2013, 5:48 AM)


csproul


Mar 1, 2013, 7:20 AM
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Re: [marc801] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
im just waiting for it to be "declared" unsafe by some RCers ...
So far, three responses here had people wagging their naive little fingers saying "don't do it" and "I wouldn't use it" so I think we've already attained that declaration.
For fuck's sake, it's just a goddamned top rope anchor. Dynamic or static rope doesn't matter one bit (assuming a well constructed anchor and appropriate redundancy).
I think only one person has said they wouldn't use it, the rest of have just said that it is not the best tool for the job, and I still think that is true. Would I use it if I had it...sure. In fact, I have a bunch of old half ropes that I take top-roping. Would I go out and buy it for this purpose...hell no.


csproul


Mar 1, 2013, 7:26 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
marc801 wrote:
So far, three responses here had people wagging their naive little fingers saying "don't do it" and "I wouldn't use it" so I think we've already attained that declaration.
For fuck's sake, it's just a goddamned top rope anchor. Dynamic or static rope doesn't matter one bit (assuming a well constructed anchor and appropriate redundancy).


http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.ca/...rope-in-anchors.html

Wink
That's funny, I don't see any of those pictures using a single 8mm dynamic rope to create a top-rope anchor. Can you find me one instance of a guide outfit that routinely uses skinny dynamic line for their toprope anchors?Of course it will work and of course it can be safe..there's no question about that. But to have a "knowledgeable" salesperson tell you this is what you need for building toprope anchors? That's a joke.


(This post was edited by csproul on Mar 1, 2013, 9:10 AM)


lena_chita
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Mar 1, 2013, 8:08 AM
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Re: [csproul] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
marc801 wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
im just waiting for it to be "declared" unsafe by some RCers ...
So far, three responses here had people wagging their naive little fingers saying "don't do it" and "I wouldn't use it" so I think we've already attained that declaration.
For fuck's sake, it's just a goddamned top rope anchor. Dynamic or static rope doesn't matter one bit (assuming a well constructed anchor and appropriate redundancy).
I think only one person has said they wouldn't use it, the rest of have just said that it is not the best tool for the job, and I still think that is true. Would I use it if I had it...sure. In fact, I have a bunch of old half ropes that I take top-roping. Would I go out and buy it for this purpose...hell no.

This!

csproul wrote:
Of course it will work and of course it can be safe..there's no question about that. But to have a "knowledgeable" salesperson tell you this is what you need for building toprope anchors? That's a joke.

And this!

But bearbreeder is so intent on finding fault with any response that anybody bothers to post on RC that he doesn't actually bother to pay attention to details of what the people said.

Apparently differentiating between the OPTIMAL tool to use for something (optimal in a combined sense of safety, efficiency, minimalism and price) and ANY tool that would work without getting you killed is never important. Even if the OP specifically asks for such information..


billcoe_


Mar 1, 2013, 9:52 AM
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Re: [Mark_25] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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Mark_25 wrote:
I am new to making my own top rope anchors off of natural points and was always under the impression that static ropes should be used for anchors. At my local climbing store the clerk suggested a Rando 8mm Twin dry rope. (http://bealplanet.com/sport/anglais/corde-rando.php). I figured it was static but once home realized it is dynamic. Will this be alright as a top rope anchor?

I've used dynamic extensively. But not 8mm, old retired 10.5 and 11mm ropes. Never as a single point of pro, and think that way yourself in this case. I'd take it back if it's still in the package. The shit can be made to work for you but pay attention to the set up. If you are running the rope a long way or over a sharper edge, then you will get stretch and clearly you need to mitigate that.

Padding the rope, doubling the rope (2 dynamics stretch a hell of a lot less than a single one and 3 is even better), using a long piece of 1" tubular webbing in addition to the 8mm, and/or just placing a nut near the edge with a couple of runners on it as a primary piece with your stretchy rope as back up are all things to consider in your anchor if you can't return it and are forced to use it.

THE most important advice is to not muddle through on your own, grab some savvy buddy or even a stranger at the cliff who's been climbing for a while and you'll shorten your learning curve up dramatically. Even walking around and watching/observing what others do will help.

8mm dynamic, be fine for a cordelette, but WTF was that guy thinking?

Good luck buddy.


bearbreeder


Mar 1, 2013, 10:36 AM
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csproul wrote:
That's funny, I don't see any of those pictures using a single 8mm dynamic rope to create a top-rope anchor. Can you find me one instance of a guide outfit that routinely uses skinny dynamic line for their toprope anchors?Of course it will work and of course it can be safe..there's no question about that. But to have a "knowledgeable" salesperson tell you this is what you need for building toprope anchors? That's a joke.

well will it be "safe" or wont it ???

as said simply protect against the edges and watch for a bit of stretch, and have REDUNDANCY ... and youll be fine

thats all there is to it ... the OP asked for "fine" ... nothing is ever "ideal" on RC unless people do exactly as other people say Wink

as for sales people ... arent they the guys who tell people to buy shoes 3 sizes down Tongue


csproul


Mar 1, 2013, 10:40 AM
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Steel chain would be "safe" too. Maybe you can find a picture of a guide or your favorite local Squish hero using 20 ft of chain to build a toprope anchor too?


bearbreeder


Mar 1, 2013, 10:44 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:

But bearbreeder is so intent on finding fault with any response that anybody bothers to post on RC that he doesn't actually bother to pay attention to details of what the people said.

Apparently differentiating between the OPTIMAL tool to use for something (optimal in a combined sense of safety, efficiency, minimalism and price) and ANY tool that would work without getting you killed is never important. Even if the OP specifically asks for such information..

the OP asked for "alright" not for the RC "optimal"

as we all now from all those friendly (well RUDE) posts ... every RCer has a different optimal ... and one will die if one doesnt do the "optimal" thing Wink

he wont die from it as long as he follows the basic rules about anchors ... protection from edges, watch for stretch for dynamic material, and REDUNDANCY ...

if you dont follow those rules, it doesnt matter what you use ... develop those basic skills first

i use old climbing rope, and it sure aint "OPTIMAL" here Wink

hell i even use half ropes ...

Tongue


bearbreeder


Mar 1, 2013, 10:46 AM
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csproul wrote:
Steel chain would be "safe" too. Maybe you can find a picture of a guide or your favorite local Squish hero using 20 ft of chain to build a toprope anchor too?

we do it all the time ... its called clipping your draws through the lower rap chain links to avoid loading em over and edge ... but not usually 20 feet Wink

or do you not lower/rap though the chains Shocked


csproul


Mar 1, 2013, 11:19 AM
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bearbreeder wrote:
csproul wrote:
Steel chain would be "safe" too. Maybe you can find a picture of a guide or your favorite local Squish hero using 20 ft of chain to build a toprope anchor too?

we do it all the time ... its called clipping your draws through the lower rap chain links to avoid loading em over and edge ... but not usually 20 feet Wink

or do you not lower/rap though the chains Shocked
The op said
In reply to:
top rope anchors off of natural points
no one was talking about permanent chain anchors except you. My point, which you've completely ignored, is that there plenty of things that are safe that aren't optimal. I'm sure the OP paid more for that rope than an equivalent static rope or a length of webbing, both of which would be better for the application. Aren't you the one who is always saying that there is no need to spend lots of $$ on a rope? Well here's an instance where someone likely just spent too much for something that is not even the best tool for the job. If you'd bothered to actually read the replies in this thread, you would have noticed that pretty much everyone has said the same thing you have...everyone (ok one exception) agrees that it'll be safe if s/he is mindful of a few things. Things which were pointed out by several other people before you, only you were too busy ignoring the previous advice so you could go off on your predictable RC.com rant.


bearbreeder


Mar 1, 2013, 11:31 AM
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Re: [csproul] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
The op said
In reply to:
top rope anchors off of natural points
no one was talking about permanent chain anchors except you. My point, which you've completely ignored, is that there plenty of things that are safe that aren't optimal. I'm sure the OP paid more for that rope than an equivalent static rope or a length of webbing, both of which would be better for the application. Aren't you the one who is always saying that there is no need to spend lots of $$ on a rope? Well here's an instance where someone likely just spent too much for something that is not even the best tool for the job. If you'd bothered to actually read the replies in this thread, you would have noticed that pretty much everyone has said the same thing you have...everyone (ok one exception) agrees that it'll be safe if s/he is mindful of a few things. Things which were pointed out by several other people before you, only you were too busy ignoring the previous advice so you could go off on your predictable RC.com rant.

and yet youre the one who brought up steel chains ... which people lower and rap off all the time ... and yes there are anchors up here which is a big honking steel chain wrapped around a gimourmous tree Wink

like i said itll work fine as long as the person KNOWS what hes doing ... like any other piece of equipment

again ... follow the basic rules
- protect the edges
- account for stretch
- have redundancy

and of course buy from REI so that you can run and take it back as soon as someone from RC tells ya to Tongue

the rope wont break, and as long as you protect it properly it wont get cut and even if it does as long as you have redundancy, you wont die

Wink


(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Mar 1, 2013, 11:35 AM)


csproul


Mar 1, 2013, 12:37 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:
like i said itll work fine as long as the person KNOWS what hes doing ... like any other piece of equipment

again ... follow the basic rules
- protect the edges
- account for stretch
- have redundancy

the rope wont break, and as long as you protect it properly it wont get cut and even if it does as long as you have redundancy, you wont die

Wink
You keep repeating this like it's something different. Nobody has said otherwise. No matter how much you want it to not be true, only one person has said they wouldn't climb on it. Everyone else has said the EXACT SAME THING. The only difference is that the rest realize that there were better uses for the $$ than a 8 mm dynamic rope for TR anchors.


bearbreeder


Mar 1, 2013, 12:43 PM
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Re: [csproul] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
You keep repeating this like it's something different. Nobody has said otherwise. No matter how much you want it to not be true, only one person has said they wouldn't climb on it. Everyone else has said the EXACT SAME THING. The only difference is that the rest realize that there were better uses for the $$ than a 8 mm dynamic rope for TR anchors.

really? ...

i buy it by the meter at MEC where its CHEAPER than the equivalent static cord $2.50 vs $2.60

http://www.mec.ca/...n-8.0mm-dry-rope.jsp
vs ...

http://www.mec.ca/...-8mm-static-cord.jsp

for these kind of anchors



no doubt im a dead RCer walking ... especially as its not "good value" despite costing less Tongue


(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Mar 1, 2013, 12:44 PM)


csproul


Mar 1, 2013, 1:01 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:
csproul wrote:
You keep repeating this like it's something different. Nobody has said otherwise. No matter how much you want it to not be true, only one person has said they wouldn't climb on it. Everyone else has said the EXACT SAME THING. The only difference is that the rest realize that there were better uses for the $$ than a 8 mm dynamic rope for TR anchors.

really? ...

i buy it by the meter at MEC where its CHEAPER than the equivalent static cord $2.50 vs $2.60

http://www.mec.ca/...n-8.0mm-dry-rope.jsp
vs ...

http://www.mec.ca/...-8mm-static-cord.jsp

for these kind of anchors

[image]http://www.supertopo.com/photos/4/72/168688_20031_XL.jpg[/image]

no doubt im a dead RCer walking ... especially as its not "good value" despite costing less Tongue
That's not what the op bought. He was sold what was likely a $90 rope assuming he bought the entire 30m rope. You can get webbing for ~$1/m or 8mm cord for ~$1.50/m, either of which are just as safe and cheaper. Your "savings" of 10 cents per meter is only a savings if they last the same amount of time. I'd be willing to bet that no matter how well you pad the edges, the dynamic will wear out more quickly than the static. Even if that is not that case, it'd be worth the 10 cents/m (a whole $3!) to me to not have my anchor material stretch every time it was weighted.

So answer this...yes or no...that simple: Do you think the OP was given good advice by the salesman? Keep in mind that we're talking about material that will be devoted to creating natural top-rope anchors.


(This post was edited by csproul on Mar 1, 2013, 1:10 PM)


Syd


Mar 1, 2013, 1:20 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:
again ... follow the basic rules
- protect the edges
- account for stretch
- have redundancy

Yep, and
- equalize
- check trees used as anchors are bigger than a forearm in dia. and aren't dead.
- put slings on trees so the trees aren't ring-barked.

The most important safety consideration is protection while you are setting up. Clip into a prussik on one of the statics. Three deaths from very experienced climbers in Oz in the past couple of years, falling from the tops of cliffs.


bearbreeder


Mar 1, 2013, 1:24 PM
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Re: [csproul] Top Rope anchor dynamic? [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
That's not what the op bought. He was sold what was likely a $90 rope assuming he bought the entire 30m rope. You can get webbing for ~$1/m or 8mm cord for ~$1.50/m, either of which are just as safe and cheaper. Your "savings" of 10 cents per meter is only a savings if they last the same amount of time. I'd be willing to bet that no matter how well you pad the edges, the dynamic will wear out more quickly than the static.

So answer this...yes or no...that simple: Do you think the OP was given good advice by the salesman? Keep in mind that we're talking about material that will be devoted to creating natural top-rope anchors.

actually i would bet the opposite ... my mammut cordelettes become unreasonably stiff after 3 years or so of heavy use, while the half ropes stay supple and easy to knot much longer ... the wear from TRing with proper edge protection is minimal ... not to mention you should be replacing your cordelettes every few years anyways

well since were in a court of RC Wink

i dont see any issues with 8mm half ropes, where one would use a 8mm cord ... and up here its cheaper to buy the half rope, in fact the beal rando at MEC is cheaper per meter than 8mm static up here $2.30 vs $2.60

its that simple Tongue

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