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Is Rock Climbing Vandalism?
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Poll: Is Rock Climbing Vandalism?
Yes 9 / 18%
No 40 / 82%
49 total votes
 

Co1urzz


Mar 5, 2013, 1:14 PM
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Is Rock Climbing Vandalism?
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Rocks for example, can be covered in a multitude of life, including moss, trees, and animals...do you consider the acquisitioning of rock for the new use being defined as "rockclimbing" a form of vandalism?


billcoe_


Mar 5, 2013, 1:30 PM
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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No more than walking on a sidewalk. Ever count the insects you crush while walking?

Didn't think so.


Co1urzz


Mar 5, 2013, 1:33 PM
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Chill bro.


milesenoell


Mar 5, 2013, 3:18 PM
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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There are very few climbers who would intentionally deface the rocks, but you don't have to be blasting a feature off to create a route at Smith Rock to leave a trace. Our very presence has unavoidable impacts like the invasive species seeds we all track in, and the erosion from the foot traffic.

The best known places will continue to be overused so do your part for the climbing world and find some new spots, put up some FFAs and spread the traffic out while demonstrating good ethics.


marc801


Mar 5, 2013, 4:11 PM
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Re: [milesenoell] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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This is Arrow in the Gunks. Note the aggressively cleaned (with wire brush) stripe of the climb; kept clean of lichen by generations of climbers ever since. The two protection bolts were put in on rappel by the FA party in the 60's.



Is this vandalism?


milesenoell


Mar 5, 2013, 4:20 PM
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That is straight up punk rock vandalism. I'll bet he's got spray paint in that chalk bag.


jt512


Mar 5, 2013, 4:51 PM
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Co1urzz wrote:
Rocks for example, can be covered in a multitude of life, including moss, trees, and animals...do you consider the acquisitioning of rock for the new use being defined as "rockclimbing" a form of vandalism?

No. I wish I could say the same for what you've done to the English language.

Jay


USnavy


Mar 6, 2013, 1:11 AM
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Re: [jt512] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
Co1urzz wrote:
Rocks for example, can be covered in a multitude of life, including moss, trees, and animals...do you consider the acquisitioning of rock for the new use being defined as "rockclimbing" a form of vandalism?

No. I wish I could say the same for what you've done to the English language.

Jay
I think this is the sixth post in a row in which you have referenced grammar. You should start an English sticky. You could explain compound infinitive splits, doctoral APA formatting, enjambment, non-sequitur statements and parallelism; you know, all the basic stuff.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Mar 6, 2013, 1:18 AM)


meanandugly


Mar 6, 2013, 3:39 AM
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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If we were to accept this as vandalism, then it would follow that all actions of a non-survival basis could be classified as the same.


Co1urzz


Mar 6, 2013, 9:13 AM
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Re: [meanandugly] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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well...technically... aren't they? do you think we have reached a population where our individual efforts need to be increased? or is there still space?


redlude97


Mar 6, 2013, 9:45 AM
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Co1urzz wrote:
well...technically... aren't they? do you think we have reached a population where our individual efforts need to be increased? or is there still space?
Do your part for humanity and end yourself so we don't get posts like this again Pirate


hugepedro


Mar 6, 2013, 11:03 AM
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Co1urzz wrote:
well...technically... aren't they? do you think we have reached a population where our individual efforts need to be increased? or is there still space?

Your individual effort to convert O2 into CO2 is vandalism. Please stop.


Syd


Mar 6, 2013, 11:51 AM
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Footprints ... vandalism on the ground ?
How about the bulldozing to make roads to get to crags or the bulldozing to make cities to live in ?
Alternatively, you could check the definition "malicious destruction or damage of property" ... no property is damaged in climbing.


edge


Mar 6, 2013, 12:26 PM
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This is vandalism.




6pacfershur


Mar 6, 2013, 6:47 PM
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thanks for an interesting thread, its been the same old shit around here lately.........


6pacfershur


Mar 6, 2013, 7:19 PM
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wait for it....


curt


Mar 6, 2013, 11:20 PM
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Re: [hugepedro] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:
Co1urzz wrote:
well...technically... aren't they? do you think we have reached a population where our individual efforts need to be increased? or is there still space?

Your individual effort to convert O2 into CO2 is vandalism. Please stop.

Not to mention the waste of electrons and bandwidth.

Curt


BillyCrook


Mar 7, 2013, 4:36 AM
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it absolutely is. And it is fine. Enjoy this Earth, even if you leave chalk and rubber behind, crush some bugs, out knock some rock off.


JAB


Mar 7, 2013, 4:55 AM
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As with everything, the issue is not simply black or white. In many places, even on the most aggressively cleaned route will moss and lichen grow back in just a few years. Cleaning choss and dropping loose blocks is also just speeding up what nature would do anyway. I would go so far as saying well done chipping is no worse than creating pin scars (note that I mean this simply from this topic's point of view, I strongly agree chipping is cheating).

However, there are also lots of walls that are clean by nature, and/or get very little rainfall. If they also are beatiful in themselves and visible from afar, climbing routes can stand out like non-healed wounds in the rock. This is especially true on bolted limestone slabs. You can from a mile away see how the rope and especially the draws have shaved away the patina of the rock, and ugly white patches snake their way up the wall. Also on overhanging walls, permadraws together with lots of chalk is not the most estetic sight.

Not put it in perspective, there are maybe 2 or 3 crags out of maybe 100 I've been to where I thought that it actually might have been better to leave the rock alone.


brews


Mar 7, 2013, 12:52 PM
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Re: [JAB] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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JAB wrote:
As with everything, the issue is not simply black or white. In many places, even on the most aggressively cleaned route will moss and lichen grow back in just a few years. Cleaning choss and dropping loose blocks is also just speeding up what nature would do anyway. I would go so far as saying well done chipping is no worse than creating pin scars (note that I mean this simply from this topic's point of view, I strongly agree chipping is cheating).

However, there are also lots of walls that are clean by nature, and/or get very little rainfall. If they also are beatiful in themselves and visible from afar, climbing routes can stand out like non-healed wounds in the rock. This is especially true on bolted limestone slabs. You can from a mile away see how the rope and especially the draws have shaved away the patina of the rock, and ugly white patches snake their way up the wall. Also on overhanging walls, permadraws together with lots of chalk is not the most estetic sight.

Not put it in perspective, there are maybe 2 or 3 crags out of maybe 100 I've been to where I thought that it actually might have been better to leave the rock alone.

Agreed. I think the answer is that it may be vandalism in some cases more than others, but in the majority of cases it is not harmful vandalism. Also line btn vandalism and impact from normal use is oh so fine and/or in the eye of the beholder.


Co1urzz


Mar 7, 2013, 1:19 PM
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beautiful! thank you for your input!


jon06


Mar 7, 2013, 6:03 PM
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I voted no because I don't think "Vandalism" is the right word.

Does it have an adverse effect on the environment and the aesthetics of a climbing area? Well, the environment; definitely. The aesthetics of an area; I guess that's debatable, but I would tend to say yes.

There are a handful of organisms that are bound to rock/cliffs for their existence. Nesting Peregrine Falcons and Golden Eagles come to mind, as well as some species of plants. Those birds will only nest on cliffs 95% of the time.

Many people that enjoy nature would also attest to the eyesore of chalk covering a rock at a popular crag or a cliff that is grid bolted.

Not to mention people crapping and pissing all over the place and the host of problems that creates (both with the environment and the aesthetics).

That being said, I'm obviously a climber and contribute to these negative impacts at the crags. And I don't intend to stop anytime soon. I think the important thing is to mitigate these impacts as much as possible. Respect raptor closures, bury your shit and pick up your trash, and probably refrain from grid bolting, or maybe even climbing altogether, on every little choss pile.

This planet is the most amazing place in the universe (as far as we know) and i think its our responsibility to keep it that way.


Partner epoch
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Mar 7, 2013, 7:01 PM
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Re: [curt] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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curt wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
Co1urzz wrote:
well...technically... aren't they? do you think we have reached a population where our individual efforts need to be increased? or is there still space?

Your individual effort to convert O2 into CO2 is vandalism. Please stop.

Not to mention the waste of electrons and bandwidth.

Curt
those poor recycled electrons...


Jay


Partner macherry


Mar 7, 2013, 7:31 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Co1urzz wrote:
Rocks for example, can be covered in a multitude of life, including moss, trees, and animals...do you consider the acquisitioning of rock for the new use being defined as "rockclimbing" a form of vandalism?

No. I wish I could say the same for what you've done to the English language.

Jay
I think this is the sixth post in a row in which you have referenced grammar. You should start an English sticky. You could explain compound infinitive splits, doctoral APA formatting, enjambment, non-sequitur statements and parallelism; you know, all the basic stuff.

but he's right

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