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Mikeeman


Mar 5, 2013, 11:14 AM
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Hey Guys,

Does anyone have a power food they use for energy that is natural and healthy?

I am aiming to loose the weight and aim for lean muscle with my training. I have a Protein Whey Isolate that i normally use after swimming training (carb free)

I am happy to use that to help rebuild the muscles, unless there is a better natural alternative

Cheers :)


jt512


Mar 5, 2013, 11:52 AM
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Mikeeman wrote:
Hey Guys,

Does anyone have a power food they use for energy that is natural and healthy?

I am aiming to loose the weight and aim for lean muscle with my training. I have a Protein Whey Isolate that i normally use after swimming training (carb free)

I am happy to use that to help rebuild the muscles, unless there is a better natural alternative

Cheers :)

What is a "power food"?


lena_chita
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Mar 5, 2013, 11:53 AM
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I personally do not take whey, soy, or similar type of supplements for the purpose of muscle re-building. I have tired them on couple occasions, when someone else was taking them, and didn't care for the taste. Or the expense, for that matter.

Whey powders are popular and convenient, but really, your body doesn't care whether the protein comes from milk, chicken breast, hard-boiled egg, or beans (assuming you get a variety and a reasonable amount in terms of nutrients and calories).

Also, you don't need all that much protein after your workout to rebuild muscles, assuming that your daily intake is adequate. Climbing is not body-building.

This is one of those subjects that people get passionate about, so I expect there will be a lot of posts about how whey protein shake changed someone's life for the better and made them a better climber.


My approach (without claiming that it is scientifically sound and thoroughly researched) seems to work for me, and can be summed up like this:

For a gym-climbing session, like you are doing:

--eat something about an hour before climbing, a small portion, similar to what you would eat for a light lunch, not too heavy, not too greasy/fried/hard-to-digest, and make sure that it is accompanied by plenty of fluids, and preferably not the fizzy carbonated kind. Basically you want something that would give you energy but not cause stomach upset or sluggishness. Going for a Chinese buffet would be a bad idea.

--drink water while you are climbing, as needed. I am assuming that your climbing session lasts about 2-3 hours.

-- eat something within thirty min to an hour after finishing climbing. This would be the time to eat your chicken salad, or beef and lentil curry, or yogurt, or whatever you think is your protein source. if you have to have that Chinese buffet, you can have it now. Tongue But better not. And drink more fluids.


Kartessa


Mar 5, 2013, 12:25 PM
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Lentils!!!!


redlude97


Mar 5, 2013, 1:21 PM
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Chocolate milk. Or chocolate milk supplemented with dry skim milk. Old cheap weight training trick


Co1urzz


Mar 5, 2013, 1:29 PM
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chocolate milk is the secret to life. lol. that and cake powder if youre supper cheap and need LOTS of calories, its like protein powder without the chemicals.


skelldify


Mar 5, 2013, 3:16 PM
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There is no single food that will do everything you want it to. You need to aim for a well-rounded, balanced diet, with plenty of protein, healthy fats, fruits and vegetables, and carbs as needed.
If you're trying to lose weight, eat less. If you're trying to build "lean" muscle, you need to eat more calories than you're burning. Building "lean" muscle while losing weight can take years of experimentation to figure out what works for you.

Again, there is no magic "power food."


jt512


Mar 5, 2013, 3:18 PM
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skelldify wrote:
If you're trying to build "lean" muscle, you need to eat more calories than you're burning.

That's false, but you will likely need to consume a protein supplement.

Jay


Mikeeman


Mar 5, 2013, 4:56 PM
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I guess "Power" is the wrong word.

Healty foods, good carbs, great proteins etc
Like i have Qinoa/ brown rice


i will happily have my protein shake after training, but if there is a healthier/natural alternative, i would consider that.


Kartessa


Mar 6, 2013, 5:38 AM
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Mikeeman wrote:
I guess "Power" is the wrong word.

Healty foods, good carbs, great proteins etc
Like i have Qinoa/ brown rice


i will happily have my protein shake after training, but if there is a healthier/natural alternative, i would consider that.

I'm gonna again say "Lentils"

High protein, high fibre, lots of carbs, folate, lysine...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lentil

Not to mention, easy on the environment to grow, short to cook, inexpensive, versatile...

... oh and I should mention: DELICIOUS!






Ask me for recipes, I dare you.


Mikeeman


Mar 6, 2013, 11:01 AM
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I DARE YOU !!!

MASTERCHEF.............LENTIL EDITION !!!


Kartessa


Mar 6, 2013, 11:09 AM
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Mikeeman wrote:
I DARE YOU !!!

MASTERCHEF.............LENTIL EDITION !!!

Favourite right now is just a simple braised lentils.

Some olive oil
lots of onions - chopped or diced
Some garlic
lots of carrots - chopped or diced
lots of celery - chopped or diced
More chopped veggies if that's your thing
herbs (I like herbes de provence 'cause I'm fancy like that).
1 Cup of Green or Brown lentils
3 cups of liquid, I usually use veggie broth or bouillon, sometimes a splash of wine, but anything works... just not dairy.

Brown onions in oil, add garlic, heat a little, add chopped veggies, let heat, add lentils and liquid, simmer til its cooked.

I put that s*** on everything - Awesome on baby spinach with goat cheese, nuts and peppers. Superb on a bed of quinoa or barley, or even on its own.

Oh... and change up the herbs/seasoning if you want to use it elsewhere.


iknowfear


Mar 6, 2013, 11:27 AM
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Kartessa wrote:
Mikeeman wrote:
I DARE YOU !!!

MASTERCHEF.............LENTIL EDITION !!!

Favourite right now is just a simple braised lentils.

Some olive oil
lots of onions - chopped or diced
Some garlic
lots of carrots - chopped or diced
lots of celery - chopped or diced
More chopped veggies if that's your thing
herbs (I like herbes de provence 'cause I'm fancy like that).
1 Cup of Green or Brown lentils
3 cups of liquid, I usually use veggie broth or bouillon, sometimes a splash of wine, but anything works... just not dairy.

Brown onions in oil, add garlic, heat a little, add chopped veggies, let heat, add lentils and liquid, simmer til its cooked.

I put that s*** on everything - Awesome on baby spinach with goat cheese, nuts and peppers. Superb on a bed of quinoa or barley, or even on its own.

Oh... and change up the herbs/seasoning if you want to use it elsewhere.

additional tip for that recipie: if you use wine, add a little balsamic vinegar ~1 min before serving.


bcrigby


Mar 6, 2013, 11:49 AM
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I'm all for lentils (and legumes in general)--your diet should definitely contain them numerous times a week. However, there are better foods immediately post-workout.

Whey protein. Lena_Chita is right, there will be at least on impassioned post on its behalf! Whey protein, when compared to all other protein sources, is better at stimulating muscle protein synthesis (MPS). Why? Because it is...

a) extremely quickly absorbed
b) extremely high in branched-chain amino acids, particularly leucine.

Here's a quick primer on why each of these is important:

If you eat meat or consume animal products, then it probably doesn't matter too much how much faster whey is absorbed. However, compared to all vegan sources of protein, whey is significantly faster. Amino acids from whey get absorbed at around 10 grams per hour. Soy protein isolate, on the other hand, is absorbed at only 3.9 grams per hour. Slower absorption means slower rise in blood amino acids which also translates to less overall MPS. Most animal products, by the way, are absorbed at around 7 grams per hour, and veggie sources probably no more than 3-4 grams per hour (less for many).

Leucine, compared to all other amino acids, seems to be the most important in MPS. Whey protein releases significantly more leucine in the bloodstream than any other protein source, which could also be why it stimulates IGF-1 more than any other protein. IGF-1 is important in triggering the body to build muscle.

If you're looking for a natural food to eat after climbing which will help maximize gains from training, nearly any meat with be pretty much as effective. Just make sure you consume at least 20 grams of protein, and more if you're older. 20 grams is the amount at which MPS is maximally stimulated in 20-year-olds, but 60+ year-olds have been shown to require 35-40 grams to achieve the same levels of MPS.

Cost-wise, you're not going to beat whey protein. I can have a can of sardines, which has 23 grams of protein, 2.5 grams EPA/DHA, and 25 mg CoQ10 and is one of my "power foods" for $3, or I can have a shake for approximately 25-50 cents, and I use a pretty expensive grass-fed whey protein. I still eat my sardines, but I do it as a meal, not a post-workout recovery food.

My advice: Don't stress about protein powders or other ergogenic aids not being 'natural' during exercise--they are designed to improve your exercise experience. Make sure your "outside exercise" diet is healthy, contains lots of nutrient-dense foods, and anti-inflammatory phytochemicals. Get a good ratio of carbs, fats, and protein (for a climber, around 50%, 25%, 25%)

Aim for 1.5- 1.8 grams of protein per kilogram per day. Anybody engaged in an anaerobic sport will benefit from this amount of protein, not just weight lifters. Weight lifters tend to weigh a lot more than climbers, and thus tend to need much more protein on an absolute amount basis. On a body-weight basis, their needs are equivalent.

High protein intake (25-30% of all calories) has also been shown numerous times to significantly increase fat loss while preserving muscle, so it will help with your weight loss goal too.

-Brian, CISSN, Master's candidate in Applied Clinical Nutrition


Kartessa


Mar 6, 2013, 12:00 PM
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Never said it was for post-workout...

guy asked for a food that gives energy and has protein.


bcrigby


Mar 6, 2013, 12:04 PM
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Fair enough! The OP just used the wording "after training", so I figured I'd add my bit in about the best foods/supplements for the immediate post-workout window.


Kartessa


Mar 6, 2013, 12:24 PM
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bcrigby wrote:
Fair enough! The OP just used the wording "after training", so I figured I'd add my bit in about the best foods/supplements for the immediate post-workout window.

Oh... you're right


Kartessa


Mar 6, 2013, 12:31 PM
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Kartessa wrote:
bcrigby wrote:
Fair enough! The OP just used the wording "after training", so I figured I'd add my bit in about the best foods/supplements for the immediate post-workout window.

Oh... you're right

There, I said it...


... don't get used to it


shimanilami


Mar 6, 2013, 12:42 PM
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Ideally, I'll have time for an actual meal. Lentils, turkey sandwich, burrito, leftovers ... whatever. I generally eat well and see no need for "power foods" prepared specifically for workouts. If I've got time to eat, I'll eat what I'd normally eat.

A more typical routine, however, has me squeezing every last route or problem into my workout, which leaves me dashing from the gym/crag to the office, to pick up the kids, etc. with little (if any) time to eat an actual meal. I end up slamming a chocolate milk down while I drive. Or Accelerade, which is nice because it can be kept in the trunk of the car and prepared in a flash. It's not ideal, but it's better than not eating anything at all.


lena_chita
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Mar 6, 2013, 4:19 PM
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bcrigby wrote:
I'm all for lentils (and legumes in general)--your diet should definitely contain them numerous times a week. However, there are better foods immediately post-workout.

Whey protein. Lena_Chita is right, there will be at least on impassioned post on its behalf! Whey protein, when compared to all other protein sources, is better at stimulating muscle protein synthesis (MPS). Why? Because it is...

a) extremely quickly absorbed
b) extremely high in branched-chain amino acids, particularly leucine.


So, in context of CLIMBING, and specifically the kind of climbing that OP is doing, which is a grand sum total of couple hours only once so far in his life, with the goal of climbing once a week...

WHY does he need to up his protein intake, post-workout, or otherwise, no matter what source of protein he chooses, assuming that he is already getting adequate protein intake?

Is two hours of climbing a week really putting that much extra demand on protein for muscle recovery? In which muscles-- forearms? I cannot help but think that even if extra protein is needed, a relatively small amount of additional protein, compared to baseline recommendation for a guy of his size, something on the order of 10-20 grams extra, would be more than sufficient.

What would be a sign that he is not getting adequate protein intake-- e.i. what sort of symptoms, etc. would he see?

I admit that i do not see a compelling reason to change my approach, because i have been climbing for 9 years, I climb 3-4 times a week, I have reasonably well-developed and reasonably lean muscles, and I cannot think of any symptoms that would suggest that I need to change anything in my diet, whether it is the timing of my food intake in relationship to the workouts, or the amounts.

But I am always interested in learning things.


Mikeeman


Mar 6, 2013, 4:53 PM
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Ok, i will try and explain myself better.

Short story

8 years agon i was a bigger boy (than i am now) i started a diet and excercise. It was all about the number on the scale, i lost 54 kilos. However i was all skin and bones. i spent soo much time focussing on loosign the weight i had no definition, i would eat low calorie food that was full of sodium, dehydrate you. After i lost all the weight i then had to start trying to build muscles. i managed to build muscles and was looking pretty good, even though my diet was not great.

I was playing Rugby, and i got a shoulder injury. stopped training, but kept eating like a rugby player. Now i am back at the start and need to loose the weight. I dont drink any softdrinks or coffee/caffeine anymore, i dont want any crap in my body.

So whilst i am doing three hard swimming sessions with a club and one day a week Rock climbing, i plan to do more rock climbing in the future.

I just want advise on the foods that are good on calories (not super low), give you the energy/fibre (like lentils) and the protein to ensure whatever climbing or swimming i am doing, my muscles are being maintained or even expanding. I am currently having a Protein Whey (no carbs or fat) fruit juice drink after every work out. Is there a better alternative? what foods should i smash an hour before climbing / working out.

Cheers guys for all your input !!! I can start to feel my forearms again....i am ready to go back and try some harder walls :)


bcrigby


Mar 6, 2013, 7:19 PM
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lena_chita wrote:
WHY does he need to up his protein intake, post-workout, or otherwise, no matter what source of protein he chooses, assuming that he is already getting adequate protein intake?

Is two hours of climbing a week really putting that much extra demand on protein for muscle recovery? In which muscles-- forearms? I cannot help but think that even if extra protein is needed, a relatively small amount of additional protein, compared to baseline recommendation for a guy of his size, something on the order of 10-20 grams extra, would be more than sufficient.

The primary reason to up protein is hormonal. You are correct that our forearms, being a relatively minor group, are probably not going to suck up all that extra protein we ingest. However, in order to maximally stimulate any type of muscle gain, we need to send our body the right message. For younger persons, 20 grams of whey protein is able to maximally stimulate muscle protein accretion, so even thought the forearms realistically will not use all the protein, they will still benefit much more from this amount due to hormonal reasons.

It's really challenging to compare nutritional approaches because, in all honesty, our body is pretty amazing, rugged, and adaptable. There are so many "only ways" to build muscle or lose weight, and in reality we can of course follow incredibly varied diets and gain muscle and lose fat. However, there is definitely research which backs up certain ideas and counters others, at least from a "best possible" approach.

You won't see any 'symptoms' from not taking in ideal amounts of protein as the human body only needs about .8 grams per kilogram for maintenance (which works out to only 45-60 grams per day, depending on weight). If, somehow, you managed to eat less than this (which would be hard, and probably involve eating a very-low-calorie diet), you might start to experience muscular atrophy, general fatigue, increased susceptibility to injury and illness, and a laundry list of other symptoms. It would be, as I said though, very challenging to not meet the adequate dietary intake for protein.

However, how do you compare doing something adequately and doing something optimally? In both cases, you will see gains, but over time one approach will result in significantly more gains. This is where I view the data. If you support your body nutritionally during exercise, you'll adapt faster, get injured less frequently, be far less susceptible to overtraining, and keep inflammation quiet in your body, which will help with long-term health.

All that is a little off-topic from the OP's question, but I wanted to give a thorough answer to you, Lena_Chita!


bcrigby


Mar 6, 2013, 7:56 PM
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Here are some general diet suggestions, and then I'll tell you what I would advise for before/during/after exercise.

I mentioned sardines before, and I highly suggest you include them in your general diet. Skinless/boneless are really not bad at all, and you can mix em up just like you can a tuna salad but without worrying about mercury toxicity. Studies suggest sardines have only 1/10th the mercury as tuna, which (in theory) means you can safely have up to ten cans of sardines per week (as opposed to one can of tuna safely). Sardines contain loads of protein, nearly all of their fat is omega-3 (which has clinically been shown to improve weight loss), and they're also one of the only foods you can get significant amounts of CoQ10 from (unless you want to eat beef hearts...). A can of sardines a day will give you 20-25 g of protein, about 25 mg CoQ10, and 2.5 grams EPA/DHA, which is a good amount of omega-3s to get on a daily basis outside of certain medical conditions.

For carbs, I personally vote beans and lentils very high on the scale. In fact, I generally skip the 'rice' portion. With beans/lentils, you get lots of quality veggie protein and serious amounts of fiber (soluble, insoluble, and resistant starch). They'll slow your digestion down, make you feel full much longer, and the fiber will improve your gut's microbiome, which has numerous beneficial effects on our physiology. Don't worry about proteins not being 'complete', the primary limiting amino acid is usually lysine which is extremely high in animal products (so you won't have any issues unless you're vegan).

Eat lots of vegetables, and decent amounts of fruit. Leafy greens, cruciferous veggies, colorful veggies. Add lots of spices to your food, like turmeric, ginger, black pepper, horseradish, mustard, the list goes on. Green tea, when consumed in 500 - 1,000 mL amounts, has been shown to increase fat burning. If you're not doing caffeine, then it won't work as well, but consider it--caffeine isn't necessarily bad, and can definitely be a useful ergogenic aid for weight loss. But not, as you mentioned, in soda or energy drink form!

Studies consistently show that those who eat 25-30% of their calories in the form of protein each day lose more fat weight and maintain lean muscle weight. The protein of course increases muscle protein accretion, explaining the lean muscle retention, but one reason it could also support increased fat loss is that all extra protein is converted to energy at a loss. Protein contains 4 calories of energy, but by the time our body converts it into a usable fuel it's only got 2.66 calories left. So, protein fills you up, maintains muscle first, and when it is used as energy is the poorest source of energy.

Before exercise, if you haven't eaten in a few hours, have 20 grams of protein, preferably whey because it will not delay gastric emptying and affect your ability to hydrate during exercise. This protein will help keep your body in a more anabolic, muscle-building state. During exercise lasting over an hour, try to consume about 60 grams of carbohydrate in a 6-8% solution (so like 60 grams in a liter for an hour, or 90 grams in a liter for an hour and a half, plus some plain water on the side to dilute the ratio to 8%). You can also add protein (again!) which has been shown to reduce fatigue. The addition of both will ensure you stay strong throughout exercise, and it won't affect how much fat you burn overall, especially for climbing.

In general, when trying to lose weight, don't go beyond a 10-20% energy deficit. If you drop below this number, you're going to start losing a lot more muscle. If you eat a high-protein (25-30%), moderate carb and fat (50% and 25%) diet and keep it isocaloric (the normal amount you would eat), you are still likely to lose weight without losing any muscle.

If there is one thing you took home from my too-long post, it's try some sardines!


Kartessa


Apr 12, 2013, 12:54 PM
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climberdude17 wrote:
check out this video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVCDp2qG0NU

Almost as good as meatspin!


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