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notapplicable
Mar 23, 2013, 3:45 AM
Post #26 of 32
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Registered: Aug 31, 2006
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Syd wrote: notapplicable wrote: I was riding down the road a few months ago and someone in a car up ahead threw a full bottle of something at a dude on the sidewalk. If he had been wearing a helmet, he probably would not have been hurt... Let me guess ... you only climb free solo because ropes, helmets and pro are for wusses ?
No. I fall all the time. Those items are hardly there "just in case".
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rgold
Mar 23, 2013, 3:48 AM
Post #27 of 32
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Registered: Dec 3, 2002
Posts: 1804
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If you have to lower something that might get caught and have to be abandoned, nOObs are cheaper to replace than your rack. I'd never lower the rack, and I wouldn't even lower a nOOb, expendable as they may be.
As for a rope bag vs. saddlebaging or flaking over the extension, you have to actually have something with you that will serve as a rope bag, which is hardly guaranteed, for example if the party isn't carrying a pack.
If you do have a bag, the canyoneering folks, who use rope bags all the time, will tell you that kinks regularly come out of the bag and try to knock the rope out of your brake hand, so once again you'd be well-advised to have an autoblock installed.
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bearbreeder
Mar 23, 2013, 3:59 AM
Post #28 of 32
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Registered: Feb 2, 2009
Posts: 1960
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unless they are HAWT nooobs ... those are somewhat more rare and valuable ...
if one doesnt have an autoblock ... and for some reason cant do a leg wrap ...learn some slip knot like a mule
tying oneself off on rappel or belay is one of the most fundamental skills
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majid_sabet
Mar 23, 2013, 3:45 PM
Post #29 of 32
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Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
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I agree, n00bs are disposable and if I was on the wall and needed dead weight to be hang from the end of the line, I'll keep the rack on top and lower the noob. Another option is take a jeans out, fill it rock and lower it down.
I mean her pants
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robdotcalm
Mar 23, 2013, 11:31 PM
Post #30 of 32
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Registered: Oct 31, 2002
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billl7 wrote: robdotcalm wrote: Another alternative, especially useful if there's only a single rappel to the ground, is to tie gear to the two ends of the rope and lower it to the ground. The purpose of the gear is to keep the ends from blowing around. Reminds me of a friend's story after a trip to Cochise Dome in Cochise Stronghold (AZ). After finishing the climb, the winds were high and they decided to do the above. While the rack was being lowered, it got to swinging and landed off to the side well before the deck, stuck in a crack/horn/whatever of some sort. Folks on top were not aware of the full extent of the issue was my impression. My friend rapped down and could not free the rack and could not get to the deck. He also could not communicate with those above due to the wind. So he ascended back up the rope and they used another team's rope to get down to free the rack. He swore he'd lower a person the next time.
In my posting, I didn’t go into all the aspects of using your rack to keep the rope from blowing around. Your friend’s story is interesting, but I’m not in agreement with “He swore he’d lower a person next time.” In using any of the techniques mentioned in this thread there are situations in which any of them would be inappropriate. I climb a lot at Vedauwoo and Joshua Tree. Both places have many one-pitch climbs and many windy days. Most of the time , lowering the rope with gear is the most expeditious way to set up a rappel on a windy day, especially when it’s a one-pitch rappel.
My first question for your friend would be how much gear did they put on the rope? Obviously, not enough for the circumstances. There’s a big difference between a small sport rack and a rack with gear from a wide-crack ascent. The next thought is they weren’t paying attention to the rope as they were lowering it. At the first sign of the gear swinging, the rope should have been pulled up. If the wind is strong enough, it’s also possible for a climber to be blown away and he could have gotten stuck in tree, e.g., I’ve been blown away in a rappel when a strong gust caught me half way down.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...k%20first%20flatiron
If the wind gets strong enough, rappelling might not be an option. After my incident mentioned in the link, I’ve often thought about this but fortunately have never been in a situation where the gusting is so continuous and intense that rappelling is not an option.
I deliberately stated that the technique is most useful for a one-pitch rappel. I’ve often used it for many-pitch rappels, but that requires a lot more decision making as to its appropriateness for any given descent, and I feel incapable of explaining the subtleties involved in a forum such as this. A lot easier to explain when on the rocks and coming down.
Cheers,
Rob.calm
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billl7
Mar 23, 2013, 11:52 PM
Post #31 of 32
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Registered: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1890
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robdotcalm wrote: My first question for your friend would be how much gear did they put on the rope? Obviously, not enough for the circumstances.
Agreed. He said the winds were ferocious ... strong enough that they could not hear him yelling from his turnaround point. It may have been the whole rack but I don't know for sure - and it may have been a pretty light rack as the route was very easy for him.
Speaking for myself, it's not something I've done in 9 years of weekend-warrior climbing. So I can't speak from experience with doing it. At the same time, I've done a ton of single-pitch raps and some of them in very strong winds. We've always figured something else out just like you've often relied on lowering the rack/gear.
I also am resistant to letting the rack / gear out of my or my partner's reach until on the deck ... it just seems too much like giving up important options too soon.
Bill L
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moose_droppings
Mar 24, 2013, 12:10 AM
Post #32 of 32
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Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3371
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robdotcalm wrote: In using any of the techniques mentioned in this thread there are situations in which any of them would be inappropriate. Cheers, Rob.calm
Ding! Ding! Ding!
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