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Strak
Mar 25, 2013, 11:04 PM
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Registered: Mar 25, 2013
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Hello all,
I'm a first timer here. I've done some outdoor climbing before, but only guided with equipment provided. I got some vouchers for bananafingers.com for Christmas, so I'm in the process of buying some kit for a trip to Spain in April. I can borrow most kit from a friend, but I want to start putting together my own rack so I don't need to completely rely on them.
I've been looking at quickdraws and am wondering if anyone can offer some advice on what I should get? I'm climbing at a 6b level indoors, I appreciate that will go down a bit to begin with when I go outside.
They have a number of packs of 6 available in the £50-£65 range:
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/edelweiss-express-top-pack-p-1640.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/black-diamond-posiwire-quickpack-p-1588.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/black-diamond-positron-quickpack-p-1894.html
As well as individual ones: http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/quickdraws-c-36.html
Would really appreciate some advice on the advantages/disadvantages/best value.
Thanks a lot,
Strak
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redlude97
Mar 26, 2013, 12:06 AM
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The major things to look for in a quickdraw are a keylock nose on the bolt end. On the rope end it doesn't matter as much, then it comes down to preference for a solid gate or wiregate. I personally prefer wiregate on the rope end so I have a mix of hotwires and hoodwires. Out of the ones posted there the posiwire 6 pack seems like the best value.
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shockabuku
Mar 26, 2013, 1:53 AM
Post #3 of 24
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Registered: May 20, 2006
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I'd get the Petzl Spirit draws in 17 cm. They'll last forever, work great, and have greater open gate and cross-load strength than most other biners.
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granite_grrl
Mar 26, 2013, 12:59 PM
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The 3 things to look for in a good quick draw:
1) Notchless on bolt end.
2) Wiregate on rope end.
3) Dog bone wide enough to grab comfortably.
If you're going fairly cheap you probably won't hit all three, but keep them in mind for future upgrades.
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brooklynclimber
Mar 26, 2013, 1:03 PM
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I just got a set of Black Diamond posiwire - solid for the bolt hangar end, wire for the rope. I should have thought about getting something notchless for the bolt side. It makes it much easier to get them off when you are cleaning the route.
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Kartessa
Mar 26, 2013, 1:59 PM
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I'll give you another vote for the posiwires
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theextremist04
Mar 26, 2013, 2:32 PM
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The Positrons are the nicest clipping budget draws out there. That being said, the Posiwires are great too.
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kennoyce
Mar 26, 2013, 5:12 PM
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brooklynclimber wrote: I just got a set of Black Diamond posiwire - solid for the bolt hangar end, wire for the rope. I should have thought about getting something notchless for the bolt side. It makes it much easier to get them off when you are cleaning the route.
I'm a bit confused by this post, the posiwires are notchless on the bolt side.
Here's another vote for the posiwires, great notchless bolt end biner, easy-clipping wiregate rope end biner, the only possible downside is that the dogbones are a bit skinney for grabbing comfortably.
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brooklynclimber
Mar 26, 2013, 5:51 PM
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Mine haven't arrived yet, so if you say they are notchless you are correct. I climbed with a set of solid gate black diamond draws last week, and I thought they had notches, but I could be wrong.
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shimanilami
Mar 26, 2013, 5:57 PM
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Draws last virtually forever, so you should get something you'll be really happy with. You'll regret not spending a few extra dollars to get the model you really want.
All those draws are solid all around performers, but for sport climbing the Petzl Spirits rule.
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granite_grrl
Mar 26, 2013, 6:38 PM
Post #11 of 24
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Kartessa wrote: I'll give you another vote for the posiwires
Positron on one side, hotwire on the other, makes these an excellent choice. The dogbone leaves something to be desired, but this is the cheapest part to replace (and the quickest part to wear out) anyway.
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shotwell
Mar 26, 2013, 7:50 PM
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shimanilami wrote: Draws last virtually forever, so you should get something you'll be really happy with. You'll regret not spending a few extra dollars to get the model you really want. All those draws are solid all around performers, but for sport climbing the Petzl Spirits rule.
I see this attitude a lot, but I've personally worn out draws in a couple of years. Not project draws or something that I share with a bunch of people, but my regular sport rack. I use a rope bag, I don't have a super dirty rope, but I do climb a lot.
I replace at least 4 dog bones a year. They get chewed up on crystals or sharp edges. I replace between 3 and 6 rope side carabiners per year. They just get worn down and sharp. With the recent accidents caused by worn draws, I don't fuck around with sharp carabiners anymore. Most modern carabiners aren't round stock and will wear to a sharp edge. I've never replaced a bolt end carabiner due to wear. My current bolt end carabiners are about 6 years old.
If you climb a lot and fall a lot your draws will wear out. 6 carabiners and 4 dog bones a year is pretty cheap maintenance on a rack of draws though!
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kennoyce
Mar 26, 2013, 8:00 PM
Post #13 of 24
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brooklynclimber wrote: Mine haven't arrived yet, so if you say they are notchless you are correct. I climbed with a set of solid gate black diamond draws last week, and I thought they had notches, but I could be wrong.
Yep, if the draws you climbed on had notches, they weren't the posiwires, they were probably the quickwires which have a quicksilver biner on the bolt end instead of the positron biner.
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Strak
Mar 26, 2013, 10:49 PM
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Cheers for the replies so far - I think most votes seem to be for the posiwires, but a few for the positrons. As the posiwires are £10 for the set and have more votes I'm inclined to go with them, but I guess I don't really understand the advantage of wiregate/positron. How much difference will it really make to me?
Cheers
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Marc1
Mar 26, 2013, 10:53 PM
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depends on what kind of climbing you do - i have to sets of draws - mainly short but a few long ones - i trad climb when at home so have to improvise a lot - if you trad climb more i would go with wildcountry - wiregateson both ends but wll defo do the job - youd be good with six long and six sort ones - whoever you climbing with normally have draws as well so you can mx and match to sit -
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Kartessa
Mar 27, 2013, 4:12 AM
Post #16 of 24
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Marc1 wrote: depends on what kind of climbing you do - i have to sets of draws - mainly short but a few long ones - i trad climb when at home so have to improvise a lot - if you trad climb more i would go with wildcountry - wiregateson both ends but wll defo do the job - youd be good with six long and six sort ones - whoever you climbing with normally have draws as well so you can mx and match to sit -
Thank you for adding zero clarity to this for the op.
The idea of a positron on the bolt end is that it's notchless, you won't hook on bolts when trying to clean them off of steep routes.
Wires seem to be more popular for the rope end because they "feel good" to clip, no gate flutter, and cuts down a little weight.
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jt512
Mar 27, 2013, 5:37 AM
Post #17 of 24
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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shotwell wrote: shimanilami wrote: Draws last virtually forever, so you should get something you'll be really happy with. You'll regret not spending a few extra dollars to get the model you really want. All those draws are solid all around performers, but for sport climbing the Petzl Spirits rule. I see this attitude a lot, but I've personally worn out draws in a couple of years. Not project draws or something that I share with a bunch of people, but my regular sport rack. I use a rope bag, I don't have a super dirty rope, but I do climb a lot. I replace at least 4 dog bones a year. They get chewed up on crystals or sharp edges. I replace between 3 and 6 rope side carabiners per year.
Yeah. My rope-end biners (Petzl Spirits) last only a couple of years. As you say, they get worn down and become sharp, and can cut the rope. I should probably retire them even sooner than I do.
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redlude97
Mar 27, 2013, 6:54 AM
Post #18 of 24
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Registered: Aug 27, 2008
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speaking of spirits, anyone see the new change to an i beam design? Lighter but should wear significantly faster. If you like your old thick spirits stock up now.
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jt512
Mar 27, 2013, 7:22 AM
Post #19 of 24
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redlude97 wrote: speaking of spirits, anyone see the new change to an i beam design? Lighter but should wear significantly faster. If you like your old thick spirits stock up now.
I haven't seen the new design, but from what you say it sounds like they've gone from bad to worse. It's the I-beam design that is responsible for worn biners to become sharp in the first place.
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shotwell
Mar 27, 2013, 2:15 PM
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jt512 wrote: redlude97 wrote: speaking of spirits, anyone see the new change to an i beam design? Lighter but should wear significantly faster. If you like your old thick spirits stock up now. I haven't seen the new design, but from what you say it sounds like they've gone from bad to worse. It's the I-beam design that is responsible for worn biners to become sharp in the first place.
It is worse. I won't be buying the new spirits. I've switched to the DMM Aero for my sport draws.
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bearbreeder
Mar 27, 2013, 5:49 PM
Post #21 of 24
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Registered: Feb 2, 2009
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those fancy ibeams are overused for applications that dont need em ...
belay biners for example ... unless yr doing long multi or alpine, you dont need any fancy ibeams ...
but everyone and their dog buys an attache 3d because its cool ... and they use it for the gym or cragging
ive seen worn ibeam belay biners damage the rope ... thats one biner thats ALWAYS rubbing on the rope
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shockabuku
Mar 28, 2013, 3:32 AM
Post #22 of 24
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Registered: May 20, 2006
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redlude97 wrote: speaking of spirits, anyone see the new change to an i beam design? Lighter but should wear significantly faster. If you like your old thick spirits stock up now.
Yeah, did that happen just recently? Didn't make any sense for a sport draw given that they just came out with their wire gates.
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jbrown2
Mar 28, 2013, 6:00 AM
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The new design is interesting. It seems the biners are bigger and lighter with the same gate action. Even the gates on the bent and strait sides are different. The also dealt with the issue of the biner changing orientation slightly with the rubber thing. The biner used to creep towards the gate which always spooked me. I have used many I beam Biners. Yes most ger really sharp vary fast. I have a set of Black Diamond Hood Wires and they seem to be wearing very nicely. I think the trick here is the diameter and roundness of where the rope runs. It is very wide with a large diameter. They seems to be lasting much longer than i have expected. I have not treated them well either.
The spirits seem to have a similar design concerning where the rope runs. No its not round stock but i expect the larger round diameter to be fairly durable.
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Strak
Mar 28, 2013, 9:14 PM
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Thanks for all the info guys, I think I'm gonna go with the posiwires as the pack is a little cheaper and people seem to like them.
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