Forums: Climbing Information: Gear Heads:
First quickdraws
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Gear Heads

Premier Sponsor:

 


Strak


Mar 25, 2013, 4:04 PM
Post #1 of 24 (5028 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2013
Posts: 3

First quickdraws
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hello all,
I'm a first timer here. I've done some outdoor climbing before, but only guided with equipment provided. I got some vouchers for bananafingers.com for Christmas, so I'm in the process of buying some kit for a trip to Spain in April. I can borrow most kit from a friend, but I want to start putting together my own rack so I don't need to completely rely on them.

I've been looking at quickdraws and am wondering if anyone can offer some advice on what I should get? I'm climbing at a 6b level indoors, I appreciate that will go down a bit to begin with when I go outside.

They have a number of packs of 6 available in the 50-65 range:

http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/edelweiss-express-top-pack-p-1640.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/black-diamond-posiwire-quickpack-p-1588.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/black-diamond-positron-quickpack-p-1894.html

As well as individual ones: http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/quickdraws-c-36.html

Would really appreciate some advice on the advantages/disadvantages/best value.

Thanks a lot,
Strak


redlude97


Mar 25, 2013, 5:06 PM
Post #2 of 24 (5000 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 988

Re: [Strak] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The major things to look for in a quickdraw are a keylock nose on the bolt end. On the rope end it doesn't matter as much, then it comes down to preference for a solid gate or wiregate. I personally prefer wiregate on the rope end so I have a mix of hotwires and hoodwires. Out of the ones posted there the posiwire 6 pack seems like the best value.


shockabuku


Mar 25, 2013, 6:53 PM
Post #3 of 24 (4972 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4860

Re: [Strak] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'd get the Petzl Spirit draws in 17 cm. They'll last forever, work great, and have greater open gate and cross-load strength than most other biners.


granite_grrl


Mar 26, 2013, 5:59 AM
Post #4 of 24 (4915 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14771

Re: [Strak] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The 3 things to look for in a good quick draw:

1) Notchless on bolt end.
2) Wiregate on rope end.
3) Dog bone wide enough to grab comfortably.

If you're going fairly cheap you probably won't hit all three, but keep them in mind for future upgrades.


brooklynclimber


Mar 26, 2013, 6:03 AM
Post #5 of 24 (4914 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2012
Posts: 94

Re: [granite_grrl] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I just got a set of Black Diamond posiwire - solid for the bolt hangar end, wire for the rope. I should have thought about getting something notchless for the bolt side. It makes it much easier to get them off when you are cleaning the route.


Kartessa


Mar 26, 2013, 6:59 AM
Post #6 of 24 (4904 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 7356

Re: [Strak] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'll give you another vote for the posiwires


theextremist04


Mar 26, 2013, 7:32 AM
Post #7 of 24 (4890 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 23, 2010
Posts: 189

Re: [Strak] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The Positrons are the nicest clipping budget draws out there. That being said, the Posiwires are great too.


kennoyce


Mar 26, 2013, 10:12 AM
Post #8 of 24 (4854 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 6, 2001
Posts: 1309

Re: [brooklynclimber] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

brooklynclimber wrote:
I just got a set of Black Diamond posiwire - solid for the bolt hangar end, wire for the rope. I should have thought about getting something notchless for the bolt side. It makes it much easier to get them off when you are cleaning the route.

I'm a bit confused by this post, the posiwires are notchless on the bolt side.

Here's another vote for the posiwires, great notchless bolt end biner, easy-clipping wiregate rope end biner, the only possible downside is that the dogbones are a bit skinney for grabbing comfortably.


brooklynclimber


Mar 26, 2013, 10:51 AM
Post #9 of 24 (4839 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2012
Posts: 94

Re: [kennoyce] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Mine haven't arrived yet, so if you say they are notchless you are correct. I climbed with a set of solid gate black diamond draws last week, and I thought they had notches, but I could be wrong.


shimanilami


Mar 26, 2013, 10:57 AM
Post #10 of 24 (4838 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 2043

Re: [Strak] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Draws last virtually forever, so you should get something you'll be really happy with. You'll regret not spending a few extra dollars to get the model you really want.

All those draws are solid all around performers, but for sport climbing the Petzl Spirits rule.


granite_grrl


Mar 26, 2013, 11:38 AM
Post #11 of 24 (4826 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14771

Re: [Kartessa] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Kartessa wrote:
I'll give you another vote for the posiwires

Positron on one side, hotwire on the other, makes these an excellent choice. The dogbone leaves something to be desired, but this is the cheapest part to replace (and the quickest part to wear out) anyway.


shotwell


Mar 26, 2013, 12:50 PM
Post #12 of 24 (4811 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 5, 2009
Posts: 366

Re: [shimanilami] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

shimanilami wrote:
Draws last virtually forever, so you should get something you'll be really happy with. You'll regret not spending a few extra dollars to get the model you really want.

All those draws are solid all around performers, but for sport climbing the Petzl Spirits rule.

I see this attitude a lot, but I've personally worn out draws in a couple of years. Not project draws or something that I share with a bunch of people, but my regular sport rack. I use a rope bag, I don't have a super dirty rope, but I do climb a lot.

I replace at least 4 dog bones a year. They get chewed up on crystals or sharp edges. I replace between 3 and 6 rope side carabiners per year. They just get worn down and sharp. With the recent accidents caused by worn draws, I don't fuck around with sharp carabiners anymore. Most modern carabiners aren't round stock and will wear to a sharp edge. I've never replaced a bolt end carabiner due to wear. My current bolt end carabiners are about 6 years old.

If you climb a lot and fall a lot your draws will wear out. 6 carabiners and 4 dog bones a year is pretty cheap maintenance on a rack of draws though!


kennoyce


Mar 26, 2013, 1:00 PM
Post #13 of 24 (4804 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 6, 2001
Posts: 1309

Re: [brooklynclimber] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

brooklynclimber wrote:
Mine haven't arrived yet, so if you say they are notchless you are correct. I climbed with a set of solid gate black diamond draws last week, and I thought they had notches, but I could be wrong.

Yep, if the draws you climbed on had notches, they weren't the posiwires, they were probably the quickwires which have a quicksilver biner on the bolt end instead of the positron biner.


Strak


Mar 26, 2013, 3:49 PM
Post #14 of 24 (4774 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2013
Posts: 3

Re: [granite_grrl] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Cheers for the replies so far - I think most votes seem to be for the posiwires, but a few for the positrons. As the posiwires are 10 for the set and have more votes I'm inclined to go with them, but I guess I don't really understand the advantage of wiregate/positron. How much difference will it really make to me?

Cheers


Marc1


Mar 26, 2013, 3:53 PM
Post #15 of 24 (4773 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 22, 2009
Posts: 90

Re: [Strak] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

depends on what kind of climbing you do - i have to sets of draws - mainly short but a few long ones - i trad climb when at home so have to improvise a lot - if you trad climb more i would go with wildcountry - wiregateson both ends but wll defo do the job - youd be good with six long and six sort ones - whoever you climbing with normally have draws as well so you can mx and match to sit -


Kartessa


Mar 26, 2013, 9:12 PM
Post #16 of 24 (4731 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 7356

Re: [Marc1] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Marc1 wrote:
depends on what kind of climbing you do - i have to sets of draws - mainly short but a few long ones - i trad climb when at home so have to improvise a lot - if you trad climb more i would go with wildcountry - wiregateson both ends but wll defo do the job - youd be good with six long and six sort ones - whoever you climbing with normally have draws as well so you can mx and match to sit -

Thank you for adding zero clarity to this for the op.

The idea of a positron on the bolt end is that it's notchless, you won't hook on bolts when trying to clean them off of steep routes.

Wires seem to be more popular for the rope end because they "feel good" to clip, no gate flutter, and cuts down a little weight.


jt512


Mar 26, 2013, 10:37 PM
Post #17 of 24 (4719 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21892

Re: [shotwell] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

shotwell wrote:
shimanilami wrote:
Draws last virtually forever, so you should get something you'll be really happy with. You'll regret not spending a few extra dollars to get the model you really want.

All those draws are solid all around performers, but for sport climbing the Petzl Spirits rule.

I see this attitude a lot, but I've personally worn out draws in a couple of years. Not project draws or something that I share with a bunch of people, but my regular sport rack. I use a rope bag, I don't have a super dirty rope, but I do climb a lot.

I replace at least 4 dog bones a year. They get chewed up on crystals or sharp edges. I replace between 3 and 6 rope side carabiners per year.

Yeah. My rope-end biners (Petzl Spirits) last only a couple of years. As you say, they get worn down and become sharp, and can cut the rope. I should probably retire them even sooner than I do.


redlude97


Mar 26, 2013, 11:54 PM
Post #18 of 24 (4709 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 988

Re: [jt512] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

speaking of spirits, anyone see the new change to an i beam design? Lighter but should wear significantly faster. If you like your old thick spirits stock up now.


jt512


Mar 27, 2013, 12:22 AM
Post #19 of 24 (4704 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21892

Re: [redlude97] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

redlude97 wrote:
speaking of spirits, anyone see the new change to an i beam design? Lighter but should wear significantly faster. If you like your old thick spirits stock up now.

I haven't seen the new design, but from what you say it sounds like they've gone from bad to worse. It's the I-beam design that is responsible for worn biners to become sharp in the first place.


shotwell


Mar 27, 2013, 7:15 AM
Post #20 of 24 (4675 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 5, 2009
Posts: 366

Re: [jt512] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
redlude97 wrote:
speaking of spirits, anyone see the new change to an i beam design? Lighter but should wear significantly faster. If you like your old thick spirits stock up now.

I haven't seen the new design, but from what you say it sounds like they've gone from bad to worse. It's the I-beam design that is responsible for worn biners to become sharp in the first place.

It is worse. I won't be buying the new spirits. I've switched to the DMM Aero for my sport draws.


bearbreeder


Mar 27, 2013, 10:49 AM
Post #21 of 24 (4634 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 1, 2009
Posts: 1960

Re: [shotwell] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

those fancy ibeams are overused for applications that dont need em ...

belay biners for example ... unless yr doing long multi or alpine, you dont need any fancy ibeams ...

but everyone and their dog buys an attache 3d because its cool ... and they use it for the gym or cragging

ive seen worn ibeam belay biners damage the rope ... thats one biner thats ALWAYS rubbing on the rope


shockabuku


Mar 27, 2013, 8:32 PM
Post #22 of 24 (4545 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4860

Re: [redlude97] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

redlude97 wrote:
speaking of spirits, anyone see the new change to an i beam design? Lighter but should wear significantly faster. If you like your old thick spirits stock up now.

Yeah, did that happen just recently? Didn't make any sense for a sport draw given that they just came out with their wire gates.


jbrown2


Mar 27, 2013, 11:00 PM
Post #23 of 24 (4529 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 4, 2005
Posts: 96

Re: [shockabuku] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The new design is interesting. It seems the biners are bigger and lighter with the same gate action. Even the gates on the bent and strait sides are different. The also dealt with the issue of the biner changing orientation slightly with the rubber thing. The biner used to creep towards the gate which always spooked me. I have used many I beam Biners. Yes most ger really sharp vary fast. I have a set of Black Diamond Hood Wires and they seem to be wearing very nicely. I think the trick here is the diameter and roundness of where the rope runs. It is very wide with a large diameter. They seems to be lasting much longer than i have expected. I have not treated them well either.

The spirits seem to have a similar design concerning where the rope runs. No its not round stock but i expect the larger round diameter to be fairly durable.
Attachments: Black-Diamond-HoodWire-C-23311P.jpg (89.2 KB)
  Mad Rock.jpg (6.96 KB)
  spirit.jpg (4.60 KB)
  i beam1.jpg (3.20 KB)


Strak


Mar 28, 2013, 2:14 PM
Post #24 of 24 (4458 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2013
Posts: 3

Re: [Kartessa] First quickdraws [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Thanks for all the info guys, I think I'm gonna go with the posiwires as the pack is a little cheaper and people seem to like them.


Forums : Climbing Information : Gear Heads

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook