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Anyone ever use webbing nuts?
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hendo


Apr 27, 2013, 9:05 PM
Post #26 of 29 (976 views)
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Re: [bearbreeder] Anyone ever use webbing nuts? [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
the more important point here i has anyone here FALLEN on em ...

Yes, I have.

I've never heard them called "webbing nuts." They were always called knotted slings. They fall into the category of "soft pro." ("Hard pro" is the metal stuff.)

I was near the top of a route and had about the last 10 feet to go. I could see no nut or cam placement (my highest piece was about 8 feet below me) but I spotted a tiny tunnel in the face about the diamater of a piece of Spectra cord.

As it happened, I had a length of Spectra cord on me. So I tied a fat stopper knot in one end and got the other end through with the help of an Abalakov hook (very useful for these kinds of threads on rock). I tied an overhand in the other end, clipped it and set off.

Thought I had it all in the bag -- my hand was on the clifftop -- when my foot gave out and off I sailed. It was about an 18-foot fall. The cord held, the knot held, the belayer didn't feel a thing and all was well.

A few notes, however.

This was one of the rare occasions where I've used a knotted sling. The others were spots where soft pro seemed the wisest choice.

What sort of spots?

Those where the actual rock making up the placement was truly questionable: e.g. a shaky flake.

We don't hear this discussed much, but metal gear has a "wedging factor." Put a nut or cam behind a flake, fall on it, and the piece will exert outward forces, much like an axe-head splitting a log. It can easily be enough to blow a questionable piece of rock right off the face.

Soft pro placed in a crack or slung around flake, on the other hand, will compress because it's more compressible than the surrounding rock. That compressibility reduces the odds of busting bad rock.

There's something very important to keep in mind. Soft pro, if fallen on, compresses into a very small size. The stopper knot on the Spectra cord on which I fell compressed right into the very tunnel itself (which was about the diameter of one strand of cord). In other words, it went down to about a third of its original width and welded right into the tunnel. I couldn't get it out.

So you must be very careful to get the size of the knot right. If it fits snug into a crack, just like a metal stopper, I'll guarantee it'll blow out in a leader fall. To remain in the placement after all that compression, the knot has to be gigantic.

Fortunately we're rarely called upon to use them ....


Rudmin


Apr 29, 2013, 12:53 AM
Post #27 of 29 (912 views)
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Re: [hendo] Anyone ever use webbing nuts? [In reply to]
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If you've got a keyhole, why not just tie the two ends together?

The rule of thumb I have always used with knotted stoppers is make sure the constriction is at most half the width of the knot.


hendo


Apr 29, 2013, 8:11 AM
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Re: [Rudmin] Anyone ever use webbing nuts? [In reply to]
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Rudmin wrote:
If you've got a keyhole, why not just tie the two ends together?

The piece of Spectra cord I had wasn't long enough.

If it had been long enough, I might have threaded it through and tied the ends together to create a sling.

However, I recall I had only one hand free (I was gripping the face with the other), which would have made tying the ends with a double fisherman really difficult.


sbaclimber


Apr 30, 2013, 1:28 AM
Post #29 of 29 (837 views)
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Registered: Jan 21, 2004
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Re: [hendo] Anyone ever use webbing nuts? [In reply to]
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hendo wrote:
Rudmin wrote:
If you've got a keyhole, why not just tie the two ends together?

The piece of Spectra cord I had wasn't long enough.

If it had been long enough, I might have threaded it through and tied the ends together to create a sling.

However, I recall I had only one hand free (I was gripping the face with the other), which would have made tying the ends with a double fisherman really difficult.
That's why an overhand is standard around here. Tongue

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