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grandkodiak


May 3, 2013, 1:25 PM
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Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit?
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Can I hear some suggestions on what the best choice for a knot would be build an expedient emergency use escape kit? IE. Hook/or caribiner, decender, anchor to harness, single rope. The common 7.5mm 50' kits out there sew a loop in that are perminatly attached, so when the rope or components are compromized, you have to toss the entire kit. To replaced the rope and keep the components (or replace a component) in the chain, what knot would you all best use as the loop to connect the anchor and hook/carabiner?

I was thinking either a tight bowline with a square safty, or perhaps a follow through 8 and saftey? but I cant find my chart that used to show how much reduction in the ropes capacity is compromised?


edge


May 3, 2013, 2:08 PM
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Re: [grandkodiak] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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grandkodiak wrote:
Can I hear some suggestions on what the best choice for a knot would be build an expedient emergency use escape kit? IE. Hook/or caribiner, decender, anchor to harness, single rope. The common 7.5mm 50' kits out there sew a loop in that are perminatly attached, so when the rope or components are compromized, you have to toss the entire kit. To replaced the rope and keep the components (or replace a component) in the chain, what knot would you all best use as the loop to connect the anchor and hook/carabiner?

I was thinking either a tight bowline with a square safty, or perhaps a follow through 8 and saftey? but I cant find my chart that used to show how much reduction in the ropes capacity is compromised?

Obviously, I haven't been climbing long enough to have any idea what you are talking about.


meanandugly


May 3, 2013, 2:47 PM
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Re: [grandkodiak] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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Barrel knot.


moose_droppings


May 3, 2013, 3:01 PM
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Re: [grandkodiak] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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8 on a bight.


majid_sabet


May 3, 2013, 3:29 PM
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Re: [grandkodiak] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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commercially there is some thing like what you want and its used for fire rescue made of Kevlar and built-in 8 on it, its $70 or so but I made a semi escape rap device made of 3/8" webbing that fits in to 16 oz plastic bottle with fig 8 loop on one end however, you must reconfigure the rap system to create a lot of friction to rap safely. i made it so when i go camping, i have 50 feet of plan b escape cord that can be use for vertical rap. not the best in the world but size and weight wise, its handy.


shimanilami


May 3, 2013, 5:05 PM
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Re: [edge] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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edge wrote:
Obviously, I haven't been climbing long enough to have any idea what you are talking about.

Noob.


acorneau


May 3, 2013, 6:19 PM
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Re: [meanandugly] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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meanandugly wrote:
Barrel knot.

Bingo.


billl7


May 4, 2013, 7:08 AM
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Re: [meanandugly] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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meanandugly wrote:
Barrel knot.

A cleaner knot in this application is the poacher's knot (strangle snare)

Grog also refers to a variation called the Scaffold Knot which has an extra turn - looks more secure as stated by Grog.

(I'm assuming the OP wants to connect the rope end to an eyelet in the hook or to a carabiner. The barrel knot leaves the tail in a way that can interfere with the hook/carabiner [although that pic doesn't show the barrel knot attached to anything])


(This post was edited by billl7 on May 4, 2013, 7:54 AM)


moose_droppings


May 4, 2013, 11:14 AM
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We're probably both wrong for assuming. I assumed he wanted a loop at the end of his rope to clip into.

It is hard to understand just what they're getting at.


billl7


May 4, 2013, 11:19 AM
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Re: [moose_droppings] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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I agree the question is not clear. It took some googling around for me and I still felt like I was assuming! Hopefully the OP will clarify.


meanandugly


May 4, 2013, 4:46 PM
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Re: [billl7] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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It is just a naming issue. I, like many others call the poacher's knot a barrel knot.


billl7


May 4, 2013, 4:48 PM
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Re: [meanandugly] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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meanandugly wrote:
It is just a naming issue. I, like many others call the poacher's knot a barrel knot.
If rescueman were around, he'd skin you alive for saying they are the same thing. Wink

Edit: Well, that and they are different beasts.


(This post was edited by billl7 on May 4, 2013, 4:49 PM)


meanandugly


May 4, 2013, 4:52 PM
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I am a rescue guy Wink


billl7


May 4, 2013, 4:54 PM
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Re: [meanandugly] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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meanandugly wrote:
I am a rescue guy Wink

No - there was only one rescueman on RC.com. Tongue


meanandugly


May 4, 2013, 6:23 PM
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Re: [billl7] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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Where has he gone?


billl7


May 4, 2013, 8:24 PM
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I think it's been about 18 months. Mainly, I just remember getting grief for calling a barrel knot a "half of a double fishermans" (I understand there is a more precise name than those two but have forgotten.)

Bill L


jt512


May 4, 2013, 10:50 PM
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Re: [grandkodiak] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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grandkodiak wrote:
Can I hear some suggestions on what the best choice for a knot would be build an expedient emergency use escape kit? IE. Hook/or caribiner, decender, anchor to harness, single rope. The common 7.5mm 50' kits out there sew a loop in that are perminatly attached, so when the rope or components are compromized, you have to toss the entire kit. To replaced the rope and keep the components (or replace a component) in the chain, what knot would you all best use as the loop to connect the anchor and hook/carabiner?

I was thinking either a tight bowline with a square safty, or perhaps a follow through 8 and saftey? but I cant find my chart that used to show how much reduction in the ropes capacity is compromised?

Please visit the Wikipedia article on Word Salad. As I understand it, this is now a treatable condition.


(This post was edited by jt512 on May 4, 2013, 10:51 PM)


grandkodiak


May 6, 2013, 6:18 AM
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Re: [grandkodiak] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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I'm sorry English was not my first language, and typing on a phone with an autocorrect usually doesn't make for the best constructed sentances. The IE. example lists the components in the kit.

If you need a visual, here are some kits that I'm looking to recreate. You can see that they are very basic but they cost far to much money.

http://www.petzl.com/us/pro/verticality/descenders/exo-individual-evacuation-system-0/exo

http://www.petzl.com/us/pro/verticality/descenders/exo-individual-evacuation-system-0/exo-eashook

http://www.allhandsfire.com/STERLING-F4-ESCAPETECH-FIREFIGHTER-ESCAPE-SYSTEM_3

etc. Basically, a bag, rope, caribiner, decender and a hook.

I'll look up the barrel knot, thank you for the suggestions.


billl7


May 6, 2013, 6:35 AM
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Re: [grandkodiak] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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Be aware that a barrel knot can be several different things for some in this thread - and some of those will work less well in your application than others.


(This post was edited by billl7 on May 6, 2013, 6:35 AM)


meanandugly


May 6, 2013, 9:24 AM
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http://www.irata.org/safety_notices/Safety%20Bulletin%208%20%20Dangerous%20knot.pdf


dan2see


May 6, 2013, 11:55 AM
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Re: [grandkodiak] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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For most of the climbers I go out with, the usual figure-8 is the only knot, and is used for everything. It's boring and it's the same-old same-old.

You can use the figure-8 follow-through at the end of your rope,
or the figure-8-on-a-bight in the middle.

It always works, it never fails, and everybody knows it.

Anything else is a problem to choose, a problem to tie, a problem to untie. And we don't know how to double-check them.


billl7


May 6, 2013, 6:16 PM
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Re: [meanandugly] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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Now you've got me thinking the world is not safe afterall.;)


(This post was edited by billl7 on May 6, 2013, 7:02 PM)


grandkodiak


May 7, 2013, 9:02 AM
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Alright I'm thinking an 8 follow with a saftey will do... might even fold over nicely on its side in the bag. Thanks all!


BartHumphries


May 26, 2013, 8:21 PM
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Re: [grandkodiak] Proper knot for emergency hook/bail out kit? [In reply to]
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I would untie the knot at the end of every day when everyone is back on the ground and retie the knot at the beginning of every day before anyone goes up. If you leave a rope tied in a permanent knot, it'll weaken the rope. Ropes need to "breath".


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