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lilvicks22
May 12, 2013, 3:36 PM
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Recently, I took some friends top-roping and used double fixed bolts to make our 2 point anchor. While we were climbing, two other climbers arrived and climbed the route right next to ours. I didn't think too much about it until we finished our climb and I went back up to clean up our anchor. I saw that the climbers next to us used one of our bolts for their 2 point anchor. Their other point of anchor was less than bomber--a badly placed nut.
Sketchy...I definitely feel uncomfortable about some stranger fiddling around with one of my anchor points while I'm climbing underneath. Not to mention what would happen if that bolt fails. How frequently does this happen and what's the proper etiquette for something like this?  If they had asked, I would've gladly placed a pro and forfeit one of the bolts to them. I just walked away pretty pissed and glad that we got out of there.
What would you have done in this situation?
(This post was edited by lilvicks22 on May 12, 2013, 3:49 PM)
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lena_chita
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May 12, 2013, 3:50 PM
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Is it common knowledge that these two routes share anchors? In that case, the other climbers should have asked, seeing as you were already on one of the routes. But also-- YOU should have warned them, if you knew that these routes share an anchor and you planned to toprope for a few turns.
I don't necessarily see a big problem with this, other than lack of communication. It's a bolt, not one of your gear pieces that they clipped... But I don't really know how bad their nut placement was, whether any of them were toproping through the same anchors as you, or whether they just clipped that bolt to get lowered, and pulled the rope, how their draws were positioned relative to your rope, and other details.
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lilvicks22
May 12, 2013, 3:56 PM
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That's just the thing...there are so many natural anchors right in the vicinity of the climb. And had I known it's common knowledge to share bolts on that route, I would've gladly spoken with them. I just assumed they used the many other options available.
Oh, and they were using it to top rope.
Next time, I'll definitely strike up a nice conversation and communicate. 
(This post was edited by lilvicks22 on May 12, 2013, 3:58 PM)
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acorneau
May 12, 2013, 3:57 PM
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lilvicks22 wrote: Recently, I took some friends top-roping and used double fixed bolts to make our 2 point anchor. While we were climbing, two other climbers arrived and climbed the route right next to ours. I didn't think too much about it until we finished our climb and I went back up to clean up our anchor. I saw that the climbers next to us used one of our bolts for their 2 point anchor. Their other point of anchor was less than bomber--a badly placed nut. Sketchy...I definitely feel uncomfortable about some stranger fiddling around with one of my anchor points while I'm climbing underneath. Not to mention what would happen if that bolt fails. How frequently does this happen and what's the proper etiquette for something like this? If they had asked, I would've gladly placed a pro and forfeit one of the bolts to them. I just walked away pretty pissed and glad that we got out of there. What would you have done in this situation?
If they went right into the bolt and didn't mess with any of my gear then I don't consider it an issue.
If they hooked into my biner I'd make sure they weren't on the rope and say something like, "We're leaving so I'm going to move your biner off mine and on to the hanger, OK?"
Either way, sharing a bolt isn't that big a deal (assuming it's actually necessary for the climbs). If they want to build semi-sketchy TR anchors that's a different issue that you may or may not feel comfortable bringing up with them.
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dagibbs
May 12, 2013, 4:02 PM
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Sharing a bolt or an anchor -- generally ok, though communication about it would have been nice.
Sharing my gear -- not cool.
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milesenoell
May 12, 2013, 5:04 PM
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If your communication skills are so lacking that you don't even say "is it cool if I share an anchor point?" then THAT is dangerous. Two top rope anchors sharing a bolt isn't very scary. Not knowing what to expect when you get to your anchor is.
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bearbreeder
May 13, 2013, 12:04 AM
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as long as they arent messing with yr gear ... and the ropes dont cross or rub on soft goods its fine
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granite_grrl
May 13, 2013, 12:53 PM
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What are the chances that this is at a cliff like Rattlensnake point in Ontario? At this cliff the anchor bolts are all over the place and now always placed ideally over the lines. At this cliff it would be totally understandable if a climber clipped into the same bolt as another with how spread out they are in area.
the park also doesn't want you to sling ANY of the trees on their land. Regardless of what we think we're climbing on private property and need to follow the rules. At the top of some routes there isn't a lot of oppurtunity for natural pro (without slinging trees) so sharing a bolt like this would be understandable.
There are also areas like the Gunks where climbers have to crawl over each other all the time too. It is very common for multiple parties to share the same anchor and because of the area I would not get upset if a person set up for rappel on the same anchor where I'm giving my second a slingshot belay from the ground.
Actually, thinking about any area where I've climbed with bolted belay anchors I wouldn't see much problem sharing a modern bolt with another party. I'm thinking about areas even like J-Tree and Devils Tower.
Where is it that you're talking about?
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lena_chita
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May 13, 2013, 2:45 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: There are also areas like the Gunks where climbers have to crawl over each other all the time too. It is very common for multiple parties to share the same anchor and because of the area I would not get upset if a person set up for rappel on the same anchor where I'm giving my second a slingshot belay from the ground.
Yeah, this always made me feel like a clusterf8ck i didn't want to be part of. I think maybe the spot where Retribution, Nosedive, and the 12 between them all converge at the same cluster of 3 bolts with chains? I think that's the spot... Anyway, I recall there being 3 ropes on that section at one time, with one route set up as a toprope, and two other routes with some mixture of people climbing and pulling ropes, and/or some people seconding on TR/cleaning gear/rappelling.
It was fine, and everyone was nice and accommodating, but I wanted to get out of that mess ASAP. I would have never gotten on it if we weren't the first people to show up there, with all three routes open.
You are right though, it really depends on the area. If it is in the area where shared anchors are common, I think people who climb there a lot would assume that everyone knows it, everyone is O.K. with it, and there is no need to ask, while at the areas where such occurrences are few and far between, it is more common to ask the other party.
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lilvicks22
May 13, 2013, 8:06 PM
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I was at a small local place in MA: Quincy Quarries. It was on a Tuesday so it was completely empty. There's bolts everywhere and lots of natural anchors all around.
It's good to now know that sharing bolts won't cause any problems. I guess I'm just peeved about the fact that they moved some of my stuff around on that anchor without a word. It's just my opinion that if you're going to touch other people's gear while they're climbing underneath, you should let them know not to get on the ropes.
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shotwell
May 14, 2013, 3:05 AM
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lilvicks22 wrote: I was at a small local place in MA: Quincy Quarries. It was on a Tuesday so it was completely empty. There's bolts everywhere and lots of natural anchors all around. It's good to now know that sharing bolts won't cause any problems. I guess I'm just peeved about the fact that they moved some of my stuff around on that anchor without a word. It's just my opinion that if you're going to touch other people's gear while they're climbing underneath, you should let them know not to get on the ropes.
If by 'moved stuff around' you mean that they unclipped a carabiner without warning your party at any point, this is a big deal. The kind of big deal that gets people killed and the kind of big deal that would get me pretty riled up. If I'm climbing on an anchor that is actively being dismantled I am going to be in a very bad mood.
If by 'moved stuff around' you mean that they wiggled your slings so they could clip underneath? No big deal.
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rsmillbern
May 14, 2013, 1:29 PM
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lilvicks22 wrote: I was at a small local place in MA: Quincy Quarries. It was on a Tuesday so it was completely empty. There's bolts everywhere and lots of natural anchors all around. It's good to now know that sharing bolts won't cause any problems. I guess I'm just peeved about the fact that they moved some of my stuff around on that anchor without a word. It's just my opinion that if you're going to touch other people's gear while they're climbing underneath, you should let them know not to get on the ropes.
I'll second shotwell, if they did anything other than clip under/over my gear I would be very angry.
I don't mind sharing an anchor, but I do think they should have asked!
With 2 bolts you are pretty safe, I think.
I did see, once, 2 different parties top roping 2 different routes off of a single bolt, and a 3rd party belaying from the same single bolt as someone led the next pitch. (a single standard fixie glue in bolt).
This would have made me nervous...
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gunkiemike
Jun 15, 2013, 8:43 PM
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Since you've asked about Peterskill in another thread, and bolt sharing is common at PK, let me chime in. The bolts I'm referring to are atop the Enterprise area (Captain's Log, Kling-on etc) They are set a good 10 ft back from the edge on a squareish formation which has climbs on three sides. The bolts are thus rather centrally located to service any/all of the surrounding climbs, most of which are routinely TR'ed. The bolts there are modern SS fatties with hangers that accept two biners. Sharing is common there so don't blow a fuse if it happens without your prior consent.
I'll also share a bolt or two atop Golden Dreams and Skink when setting up a climb on the opposite walls. I'll peek over the edge, but if no one's around to ask, no one gets asked.
Of course, as noted above, no one should ever unclip someone's anchor or any part of it to facilitate their own sharing.
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MossFet
Jun 19, 2013, 2:33 PM
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lilvicks22 wrote: I was at a small local place in MA: Quincy Quarries. It was on a Tuesday so it was completely empty. There's bolts everywhere and lots of natural anchors all around.
As somebody who climbs as the Quincy Quarries, I find it hard to believe that sharing a bolt would be necessary, maybe there are some climbs where that would be the case, but not many (Which wall/climb was it on?) there is no shortage of natural tree anchors and metal quarry stuff to anchor to, assuming you have some decent length slings or static line. Also worth noting, I can't remember ever placed a piece of gear for an anchor at the QQ.
I think it's justified that you are a little annoyed with the other party.
Also, I've seen some really sketchy stuff at the QQ, probably because it offers good top-roping with really easy access.
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