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What kind of advice is appropriate for a site like this?
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Poll: What kind of advice is appropriate for a site like this?
I'll tell you about anything. Who cares if you die? 9 / 28%
I don't give advice to dangerous idiots. 8 / 25%
I don't give advice to nOObs. 0 / 0%
I don't give advice over the internet. 1 / 3%
I don't give advice to anyone, ever. 0 / 0%
Pancakes 14 / 44%
32 total votes
 

milesenoell


May 17, 2013, 1:57 PM
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What kind of advice is appropriate for a site like this?
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There seems to be much ado about how content on this site is showing the signs of decline, but what I am curious about is about what kind of content is even appropriate for a site like this.

A recent thread requesting feedback and information on TR solo fizzled as no one really wants to go on record giving advice that could be misapplied and lead to serious injury or death. As commendable as it may be that we try to keep foolish folks from getting the wrong idea, that attitude seems to squelch the legitimate exchange of information and ideas that would breathe some life back into the site.

Is encouraging a climber of unknown skill or judgement to teach themselves skills like building anchors, placing pro, and roped solo --lead or TR-- too dangerous? Where do you draw the line?


(This post was edited by milesenoell on May 17, 2013, 1:59 PM)


notapplicable


May 17, 2013, 3:57 PM
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I've learned a bunch of stuff on RC.com over the years. Most of it "tricks of the trade" type stuff that augmented my existing knowledge and practices but I've found it to be a valuable resource nonetheless.

I'll share what I know, or at least THINK I know, if someone asks. It's what this place is for. That and trolling and posting pictures of boobies. You know, now that I think of it, there hasn't been a boobies thread in like two years. Jesus. This place is in decline!


majid_sabet


May 17, 2013, 5:41 PM
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milesenoell wrote:
There seems to be much ado about how content on this site is showing the signs of decline, but what I am curious about is about what kind of content is even appropriate for a site like this.

A recent thread requesting feedback and information on TR solo fizzled as no one really wants to go on record giving advice that could be misapplied and lead to serious injury or death. As commendable as it may be that we try to keep foolish folks from getting the wrong idea, that attitude seems to squelch the legitimate exchange of information and ideas that would breathe some life back into the site.

Is encouraging a climber of unknown skill or judgement to teach themselves skills like building anchors, placing pro, and roped solo --lead or TR-- too dangerous? Where do you draw the line?

Are you a law student ?


milesenoell


May 18, 2013, 8:50 AM
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I'm not interested in the legal aspects at all. What I am is someone who taught themselves to build anchors, place pro, and roped solo. I made use of books, the net and advice from people I didn't know all that well. Nowhere have I found as much antipathy toward that approach as I seem to find here at this site. Cascade Climbers, ST and MP all seem to be significantly freer with advice, and I'm curious if it is simply because they have more knowledge to bestow, or if the folks on here are intentionally holding back out of some altruistic attempt to protect the nOObs from themselves.


(This post was edited by milesenoell on May 18, 2013, 9:00 AM)


qwert


May 18, 2013, 10:26 AM
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Well, I do give advice, but only if I have the feeling the person on the opposite end of the intertubes can understand it.

If someone needs one single aspect of something explained, or is curious to add some stuff to some solid foundations, i will happily give advice.

However if I have the feeling that someone thinks climbing is something that can be learned by asking three questions on the internet, then i will just voice the usual "U R gunna dye!11!", "do a proper course!", "Hire a guide!", "Find someone to show you in real live!".

True - those inane answers are getting more and more frequent, but so do the inane questions by people who do not seem to understand the fundamental principles of gravity…

Vicious circle? Maybe, but I'd rather not encourage some idiot to kill himself or herself. Also, that might endanger other - innocent - people, or even cause access issues.

qwert


milesenoell


May 18, 2013, 11:28 AM
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I appreciate your candor qwert, and I generally use the same approach when giving advice. It's the seeking advice part that has made me feel like information that would be helpful is harder to get than it needs to be. In general I view it as laziness dressed up as altruism, but that doesn't jibe with my strong impression of climbers as generally helpful and generous folks. I figured I'd ask where people stand.


(This post was edited by milesenoell on May 18, 2013, 11:29 AM)


marc801


May 18, 2013, 12:50 PM
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milesenoell wrote:
I appreciate your candor qwert, and I generally use the same approach when giving advice. It's the seeking advice part that has made me feel like information that would be helpful is harder to get than it needs to be. In general I view it as laziness dressed up as altruism, but that doesn't jibe with my strong impression of climbers as generally helpful and generous folks. I figured I'd ask where people stand.
I don't think it's laziness at all, nor do I think people here aren't willing to be helpful or aren't willing to answer questions. Where I do find a stark difference is in the type of question, much as qwert alluded to.

There's this:
I have a question about X, In this thread I looked up it suggests <something> but John Long's book says <something slightly different>. So in <some situation> I thought <doing such and such> was appropriate. But I think I'm missing <some finer point regarding the issue> and was wondering if someone more experienced can give <appropriate advice>.

But then there's this:
Hey bros this rock climbing is really cool and I want to do a lot more what kind of gear do i need to do this rad sport?

What you seem to be reacting to are the answers to the second kind of question. Why should we invest the time and effort to form a well though out answer when the person posting couldn't be bothered to do the same with the original? One, where armed with only that answer and minimal to non-existent other knowledge, could easily get the poster, his/her partner(s), or their rescuer(s) hurt or killed.

In short, if someone is a good apprentice and does the initial research and learning, they'll probably get helpful responses. If someone is a lazy moron that is unable to come up with anything more than a vague, general question and wants everything just handed to them with no effort on their part, maybe not so much.


majid_sabet


May 18, 2013, 6:06 PM
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milesenoell wrote:
I'm not interested in the legal aspects at all. What I am is someone who taught themselves to build anchors, place pro, and roped solo. I made use of books, the net and advice from people I didn't know all that well. Nowhere have I found as much antipathy toward that approach as I seem to find here at this site. Cascade Climbers, ST and MP all seem to be significantly freer with advice, and I'm curious if it is simply because they have more knowledge to bestow, or if the folks on here are intentionally holding back out of some altruistic attempt to protect the nOObs from themselves.


There are knowledgeable people here who keep things low key because the site itself does not promote nor likes smart ones. Here the #s of visitors per day is the goal and even when we have a topic, what make it hotter is the number of visitors joining the topic or discussion and not the topic content itself.

in ST or MP, you got people who talk outside of that media format cause place runs by hardcore climbers.

Is that true here ?






OHH they are coming after me


bearbreeder


May 18, 2013, 9:37 PM
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majid_sabet wrote:

in ST or MP, you got people who talk outside of that media format cause place runs by hardcore climbers.

OHH they are coming after me

are you a "hardcore climber" there mahjeed? Wink

i mean really do we need a "boobs" thread, "why republicans are wrong" thread, and threads where uses call each other pedos for posting up innocent kid pics ....

thats whats on "harcore cllmber" site Tongue


majid_sabet


May 19, 2013, 12:51 AM
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bearbreeder wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

in ST or MP, you got people who talk outside of that media format cause place runs by hardcore climbers.

OHH they are coming after me

are you a "hardcore climber" there mahjeed? Wink

i mean really do we need a "boobs" thread, "why republicans are wrong" thread, and threads where uses call each other pedos for posting up innocent kid pics ....

thats whats on "harcore cllmber" site Tongue

I am not a climber and I said that a million times before


Ruff_Dog


May 19, 2013, 7:02 AM
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majid_sabet wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

in ST or MP, you got people who talk outside of that media format cause place runs by hardcore climbers.

OHH they are coming after me

are you a "hardcore climber" there mahjeed? Wink

i mean really do we need a "boobs" thread, "why republicans are wrong" thread, and threads where uses call each other pedos for posting up innocent kid pics ....

thats whats on "harcore cllmber" site Tongue

I am not a climber and I said that a million times before

Woah. You're not a climber? This poses two questions: With all due respect, what brings you here? And secondly, you gave me advice for rappeling in my thread, and while I know that climbers aren't the sole rappellers of the world, where did you learn that about the 8? You had said you used it.


(This post was edited by Ruff_Dog on May 19, 2013, 7:02 AM)


milesenoell


May 19, 2013, 8:17 AM
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Ruff_Dog wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

in ST or MP, you got people who talk outside of that media format cause place runs by hardcore climbers.

OHH they are coming after me

are you a "hardcore climber" there mahjeed? Wink

i mean really do we need a "boobs" thread, "why republicans are wrong" thread, and threads where uses call each other pedos for posting up innocent kid pics ....

thats whats on "harcore cllmber" site Tongue

I am not a climber and I said that a million times before

Woah. You're not a climber? This poses two questions: With all due respect, what brings you here? And secondly, you gave me advice for rappeling in my thread, and while I know that climbers aren't the sole rappellers of the world, where did you learn that about the 8? You had said you used it.

Whatever else Majid may be, he is a legit source of knowledge on SAR stuff, and those guys know how to lower things.


Ruff_Dog


May 19, 2013, 8:29 AM
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milesenoell wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

in ST or MP, you got people who talk outside of that media format cause place runs by hardcore climbers.

OHH they are coming after me

are you a "hardcore climber" there mahjeed? Wink

i mean really do we need a "boobs" thread, "why republicans are wrong" thread, and threads where uses call each other pedos for posting up innocent kid pics ....

thats whats on "harcore cllmber" site Tongue

I am not a climber and I said that a million times before

Woah. You're not a climber? This poses two questions: With all due respect, what brings you here? And secondly, you gave me advice for rappeling in my thread, and while I know that climbers aren't the sole rappellers of the world, where did you learn that about the 8? You had said you used it.

Whatever else Majid may be, he is a legit source of knowledge on SAR stuff, and those guys know how to lower things.


Alright, alright. Thanks for clearing that up because Majid gave me solid advice on a Rescue 8 and seemed to know his stuff, and I foolishly assumed he was a climber. Good to know, though! Thank you both.


majid_sabet


May 19, 2013, 9:01 AM
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Ruff_Dog wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

in ST or MP, you got people who talk outside of that media format cause place runs by hardcore climbers.

OHH they are coming after me

are you a "hardcore climber" there mahjeed? Wink

i mean really do we need a "boobs" thread, "why republicans are wrong" thread, and threads where uses call each other pedos for posting up innocent kid pics ....

thats whats on "harcore cllmber" site Tongue

I am not a climber and I said that a million times before

Woah. You're not a climber? This poses two questions: With all due respect, what brings you here? And secondly, you gave me advice for rappeling in my thread, and while I know that climbers aren't the sole rappellers of the world, where did you learn that about the 8? You had said you used it.

Whatever else Majid may be, he is a legit source of knowledge on SAR stuff, and those guys know how to lower things.


Alright, alright. Thanks for clearing that up because Majid gave me solid advice on a Rescue 8 and seemed to know his stuff, and I foolishly assumed he was a climber. Good to know, though! Thank you both.

As an example, to be able to lower an climber needing help down the cliff , you need to understand how they got there to begin with , what tools and techniques they used and what went wrong. in addition , the person who is planning to do this task needs to clearly understand climber's thought process, have proper knowledge on how to climb and what specialty tools he or she needs to do the job . This process includes: accessing the individual party needing help , build a plan based on best options with tools and resources available and execute it in a proper time.

Now,for some people, gaining these sort of knowledge and keeps things up to date, an internet site such as this place along with other climber's websites can be useful .

Feel free to ask any questions and if I do not have the answer, I am sure I am networked to get that answer for you.

peace


marc801


May 19, 2013, 10:42 AM
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bearbreeder wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

in ST or MP, you got people who talk outside of that media format cause place runs by hardcore climbers.

OHH they are coming after me

are you a "hardcore climber" there mahjeed? Wink

i mean really do we need a "boobs" thread, "why republicans are wrong" thread, and threads where uses call each other pedos for posting up innocent kid pics ....

thats whats on "harcore cllmber" site Tongue
Have you looked at the various sub-forums on this site? Like the Campground?

Of the 30 topics on the first page of the Supertopo forum right now, arguably only 2 are totally non-climbing related. Perhaps another 10 are only peripherally related, most notably about members life events.


Ruff_Dog


May 19, 2013, 12:10 PM
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majid_sabet wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

in ST or MP, you got people who talk outside of that media format cause place runs by hardcore climbers.

OHH they are coming after me

are you a "hardcore climber" there mahjeed? Wink

i mean really do we need a "boobs" thread, "why republicans are wrong" thread, and threads where uses call each other pedos for posting up innocent kid pics ....

thats whats on "harcore cllmber" site Tongue

I am not a climber and I said that a million times before

Woah. You're not a climber? This poses two questions: With all due respect, what brings you here? And secondly, you gave me advice for rappeling in my thread, and while I know that climbers aren't the sole rappellers of the world, where did you learn that about the 8? You had said you used it.

Whatever else Majid may be, he is a legit source of knowledge on SAR stuff, and those guys know how to lower things.


Alright, alright. Thanks for clearing that up because Majid gave me solid advice on a Rescue 8 and seemed to know his stuff, and I foolishly assumed he was a climber. Good to know, though! Thank you both.

As an example, to be able to lower an climber needing help down the cliff , you need to understand how they got there to begin with , what tools and techniques they used and what went wrong. in addition , the person who is planning to do this task needs to clearly understand climber's thought process, have proper knowledge on how to climb and what specialty tools he or she needs to do the job . This process includes: accessing the individual party needing help , build a plan based on best options with tools and resources available and execute it in a proper time.

Now,for some people, gaining these sort of knowledge and keeps things up to date, an internet site such as this place along with other climber's websites can be useful .

Feel free to ask any questions and if I do not have the answer, I am sure I am networked to get that answer for you.

peace

Solid. Thanks. So you work for a SAR team or what?


majid_sabet


May 19, 2013, 12:27 PM
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Ruff_Dog wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

in ST or MP, you got people who talk outside of that media format cause place runs by hardcore climbers.

OHH they are coming after me

are you a "hardcore climber" there mahjeed? Wink

i mean really do we need a "boobs" thread, "why republicans are wrong" thread, and threads where uses call each other pedos for posting up innocent kid pics ....

thats whats on "harcore cllmber" site Tongue

I am not a climber and I said that a million times before

Woah. You're not a climber? This poses two questions: With all due respect, what brings you here? And secondly, you gave me advice for rappeling in my thread, and while I know that climbers aren't the sole rappellers of the world, where did you learn that about the 8? You had said you used it.

Whatever else Majid may be, he is a legit source of knowledge on SAR stuff, and those guys know how to lower things.


Alright, alright. Thanks for clearing that up because Majid gave me solid advice on a Rescue 8 and seemed to know his stuff, and I foolishly assumed he was a climber. Good to know, though! Thank you both.

As an example, to be able to lower an climber needing help down the cliff , you need to understand how they got there to begin with , what tools and techniques they used and what went wrong. in addition , the person who is planning to do this task needs to clearly understand climber's thought process, have proper knowledge on how to climb and what specialty tools he or she needs to do the job . This process includes: accessing the individual party needing help , build a plan based on best options with tools and resources available and execute it in a proper time.

Now,for some people, gaining these sort of knowledge and keeps things up to date, an internet site such as this place along with other climber's websites can be useful .

Feel free to ask any questions and if I do not have the answer, I am sure I am networked to get that answer for you.

peace

Solid. Thanks. So you work for a SAR team or what?

trying to get a book done.


Ruff_Dog


May 19, 2013, 12:58 PM
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majid_sabet wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

in ST or MP, you got people who talk outside of that media format cause place runs by hardcore climbers.

OHH they are coming after me

are you a "hardcore climber" there mahjeed? Wink

i mean really do we need a "boobs" thread, "why republicans are wrong" thread, and threads where uses call each other pedos for posting up innocent kid pics ....

thats whats on "harcore cllmber" site Tongue

I am not a climber and I said that a million times before

Woah. You're not a climber? This poses two questions: With all due respect, what brings you here? And secondly, you gave me advice for rappeling in my thread, and while I know that climbers aren't the sole rappellers of the world, where did you learn that about the 8? You had said you used it.

Whatever else Majid may be, he is a legit source of knowledge on SAR stuff, and those guys know how to lower things.


Alright, alright. Thanks for clearing that up because Majid gave me solid advice on a Rescue 8 and seemed to know his stuff, and I foolishly assumed he was a climber. Good to know, though! Thank you both.

As an example, to be able to lower an climber needing help down the cliff , you need to understand how they got there to begin with , what tools and techniques they used and what went wrong. in addition , the person who is planning to do this task needs to clearly understand climber's thought process, have proper knowledge on how to climb and what specialty tools he or she needs to do the job . This process includes: accessing the individual party needing help , build a plan based on best options with tools and resources available and execute it in a proper time.

Now,for some people, gaining these sort of knowledge and keeps things up to date, an internet site such as this place along with other climber's websites can be useful .

Feel free to ask any questions and if I do not have the answer, I am sure I am networked to get that answer for you.

peace

Solid. Thanks. So you work for a SAR team or what?

trying to get a book done.

When's the release date or approximate release date?


moose_droppings


May 19, 2013, 1:48 PM
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Individuals are responsible for any info they may get off the net. I don't see anybody here giving advice purposely trying to get someone injured, and when plain unsafe advice is given, there's always been someone here that speaks out about it. Sure a small caveat like 'have someone show you' or the likes might be helpful, but in the end, they're on their own. Many things can be self taught, but those with someone to teach them may learn faster. Speed and simpler ways come with mileage.

Safety systems in climbing aren't rocket science and many before us and many yet to come will figure a lot of this out on their own with a little info. Given the right book and advice those with a healthy respect for gravity and a little common sense can go a long way.

Remember the 'culling the herd' thread?


marc801


May 19, 2013, 3:16 PM
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Ruff_Dog wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

For fuck's sake this just isn't necessary.

OTOH, here we see the emergence of a reasonable, coherent, and mostly well-written Majid. Who are you and what have you done with the crazy Majid?


Ruff_Dog


May 19, 2013, 3:19 PM
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Re: [marc801] What kind of advice is appropriate for a site like this? [In reply to]
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That's so necessary! I love how it looks. But yes, Majid is the man.

Now, I shall go wallow in misery as I failed my belay test today..


dan2see


May 19, 2013, 3:21 PM
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Re: [notapplicable] What kind of advice is appropriate for a site like this? [In reply to]
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notapplicable wrote:
I've learned a bunch of stuff on RC.com over the years. Most of it "tricks of the trade" type stuff that augmented my existing knowledge and practices but I've found it to be a valuable resource nonetheless.

I'll share what I know, or at least THINK I know, if someone asks. It's what this place is for. That and trolling and posting pictures of boobies. You know, now that I think of it, there hasn't been a boobies thread in like two years. Jesus. This place is in decline!

I don't think I dole out advice to the impressionable.

I prefer telling about my own experiences. In fact, that's how I learned the tricks, by watching my friends, and listening to advice given while on the rocks. Of course I read stuff, and I think about what I read, too. I guess that I understand the benefits of watching and thinking, and so I expect everybody else to do that, too. Well nobody's perfect.

On the other hand, some posts in this site challenge my communication skills. I sometimes mis-read trolls, and I mis-read non-trolls. Then my comments are a waste of your bandwidth. Well nobody's perfect.

My favorite advice to guys looking for gear is "Choose the gear with the coolest color." and I guess most of you guys think I'm being silly. But when you shop at your local climbing store, the "climbing" stuff is always, only, strictly, safe and good enough for your vertical adventure. I give this advice to the novice with the expectation that he'll read the label and listen to the sales dude.

I try to stay away from advice about on-the-rocks practices. Too often, it's really hard to understand the actual scenario. So when I try to explain the "correct" procedure, it's like being on the wrong route and of course bad beta is stupid. Although sometimes I know I'm right.

I've enjoyed participating in the RockClimbing forums for 7 years, and I've certainly picked up some good advice from you guys.

But learning on the rocks, face-to-face with my friends of all abilities, has been my premier learning source. And sometimes Certified Mountain Guides. But mostly friends. On the rocks.


majid_sabet


May 19, 2013, 5:17 PM
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Re: [moose_droppings] What kind of advice is appropriate for a site like this? [In reply to]
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moose_droppings wrote:
Individuals are responsible for any info they may get off the net. I don't see anybody here giving advice purposely trying to get someone injured, and when plain unsafe advice is given, there's always been someone here that speaks out about it. Sure a small caveat like 'have someone show you' or the likes might be helpful, but in the end, they're on their own. Many things can be self taught, but those with someone to teach them may learn faster. Speed and simpler ways come with mileage.

Safety systems in climbing aren't rocket science and many before us and many yet to come will figure a lot of this out on their own with a little info. Given the right book and advice those with a healthy respect for gravity and a little common sense can go a long way.

Remember the 'culling the herd' thread?


Safety systems in climbing aren't rocket science however, beginners must follow certain guideline to reduce their exposure to dangerous outcomes. Even pro have to follow the same thing but we seen it that its been ignored regularly like" I should had tie the knot at the end of the line but....."

if someone comes and ask what rack do I need, majority of people proved recommendations without knowing what the climber's capabilities are. very much like a salesman in a car lot selling a sport car to kid that just got his license rather than screening the person to see why a 230 ponder wants to do the El Cap in a day but never done anything more than 2 pitches in their life.

if someone ask me I want to buy a new rope and I just started climbing. I would recommend a 10.5 or even 11 mm rope to them. not that a 9.8 mm is bad rope but because that few extra mm and rope weight adds a little miles to their knowledge and eventually they will figure out that a 11mm rope is little heavy and they can perform better with lighter mm rope.

I think everyone especially the knowledgeable people round here have good intentions and wanted to provide accurate infos however, they spend less time screening to see who is seeking such infos and what are their backgrounds.

That was my 0.02


csproul


May 19, 2013, 5:37 PM
Post #24 of 55 (2549 views)
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Re: [marc801] What kind of advice is appropriate for a site like this? [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
milesenoell wrote:
Ruff_Dog wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

For fuck's sake this just isn't necessary.

OTOH, here we see the emergence of a reasonable, coherent, and mostly well-written Majid. Who are you and what have you done with the crazy Majid?
Noobs gravitating toward the clueless.


moose_droppings


May 20, 2013, 4:56 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] What kind of advice is appropriate for a site like this? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
moose_droppings wrote:
Individuals are responsible for any info they may get off the net. I don't see anybody here giving advice purposely trying to get someone injured, and when plain unsafe advice is given, there's always been someone here that speaks out about it. Sure a small caveat like 'have someone show you' or the likes might be helpful, but in the end, they're on their own. Many things can be self taught, but those with someone to teach them may learn faster. Speed and simpler ways come with mileage.

Safety systems in climbing aren't rocket science and many before us and many yet to come will figure a lot of this out on their own with a little info. Given the right book and advice those with a healthy respect for gravity and a little common sense can go a long way.

Remember the 'culling the herd' thread?


Safety systems in climbing aren't rocket science however, beginners must follow certain guideline to reduce their exposure to dangerous outcomes. Even pro have to follow the same thing but we seen it that its been ignored regularly like" I should had tie the knot at the end of the line but....."

if someone comes and ask what rack do I need, majority of people proved recommendations without knowing what the climber's capabilities are. very much like a salesman in a car lot selling a sport car to kid that just got his license rather than screening the person to see why a 230 ponder wants to do the El Cap in a day but never done anything more than 2 pitches in their life.

if someone ask me I want to buy a new rope and I just started climbing. I would recommend a 10.5 or even 11 mm rope to them. not that a 9.8 mm is bad rope but because that few extra mm and rope weight adds a little miles to their knowledge and eventually they will figure out that a 11mm rope is little heavy and they can perform better with lighter mm rope.

I think everyone especially the knowledgeable people round here have good intentions and wanted to provide accurate infos however, they spend less time screening to see who is seeking such infos and what are their backgrounds.

That was my 0.02

Your probably right but I'm not taking the time to differentiate how far along the learning curve each person is that asks for info.

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