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X4 vs C4
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ACJ


May 16, 2013, 4:52 PM
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X4 vs C4
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Anyone feel like the X4 is a better general use cam than the C4?

After playing with them I'll admit they are cool but I don't think the price justifies the purchase. The C4's have done great for me over the last 8 years and I just don't see the gumby stem as being all that great. I can see it in horizontals but still think it will bend and kink if fallen on. As far as walking, I always extend my C4s so doubt there will be much difference.

Anyone else have thoughts?


Kartessa


May 16, 2013, 5:40 PM
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Re: [ACJ] X4 vs C4 [In reply to]
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ACJ wrote:
Anyone feel like the X4 is a better general use cam than the C4?

After playing with them I'll admit they are cool but I don't think the price justifies the purchase. The C4's have done great for me over the last 8 years and I just don't see the gumby stem as being all that great. I can see it in horizontals but still think it will bend and kink if fallen on. As far as walking, I always extend my C4s so doubt there will be much difference.

Anyone else have thoughts?

If you've seen them, then you'll know they don't replace the c4s, their range is closer to the c3s, and the smallest c4s


ACJ


May 16, 2013, 5:52 PM
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Re: [Kartessa] X4 vs C4 [In reply to]
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Really? I'm pretty sure the .4 .5 and .75 are the same range. Didn't nitpick it tho.


notapplicable


May 16, 2013, 9:55 PM
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Re: [Kartessa] X4 vs C4 [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
ACJ wrote:
Anyone feel like the X4 is a better general use cam than the C4?

After playing with them I'll admit they are cool but I don't think the price justifies the purchase. The C4's have done great for me over the last 8 years and I just don't see the gumby stem as being all that great. I can see it in horizontals but still think it will bend and kink if fallen on. As far as walking, I always extend my C4s so doubt there will be much difference.

Anyone else have thoughts?

If you've seen them, then you'll know they don't replace the c4s, their range is closer to the c3s, and the smallest c4s

Yep. They're intended to compete with Master Cams and the two or three Alien knockoffs that are floating around right now. That and to offer a solution to the longstanding weakness in BD's cam lineup, which has always been the small end.

Oh and my two cents on the OP's question... Yes, they are likely to be as useful, if not more so, than comprably sized C4's. There is a reason most folks suppliment the smaller end of their rack with TCU's or Master Cams or similar.


(This post was edited by notapplicable on May 16, 2013, 10:00 PM)


Partner rgold


May 16, 2013, 11:08 PM
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Re: [ACJ] X4 vs C4 [In reply to]
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I think the main advantage is that the X4's have a considerably narrower head width. If you climb on rock with relatively uniform placements, this difference will be inconsequential. If you climb on featured rock whose cracks are wiggly or obstructed in various ways, then the X4's will inevitably go where C4's cannot.

I doubt whatever small extra range has been obtained from the fancy axles will make much real-world difference, but then again one could argue that with the limited usable range of small cams, even a little extra range could contribute to the security of many placements.


robx


May 21, 2013, 10:42 AM
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Re: [ACJ] X4 vs C4 [In reply to]
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I posted a similar write up on mp.com, but whatever:

I bought a .75 because I like having flexible stems in the gunks, and it's ~one size bigger than the red alien. I compared it to a standard green c4 and am much more impressed with the new x4 than my C4.

pros:
-flexible stem (horizontal placements/gunks climbing!)-not quite as flexible as my aliens, but really damn close.
-much narrower - it's about one-lobe smaller than the C4's, while still having the same contact with rock. Really impressed and this is one of those things that won't matter to a lot of crack climbers, but for me it's important.
-no more plastic - I never doubted my C4's because of the excess plastic, but the X4's do look and feel a lot cooler.

cons:
-expensive - Honestly, they're less than aliens, but more than most other american cams.
-made in china - do with that what you will.
-lobes are not as "soft" as the aliens.


The trigger wire isn't made of wire. It's something else and my short searches online haven't helped me find what it is. anyone know?


marc801


May 21, 2013, 1:10 PM
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Re: [robx] X4 vs C4 [In reply to]
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robx wrote:
-made in china - do with that what you will.
If it's "do with that what you will", then why do you list it as a con? BTW, all BD cams are made in China, as is much of their other gear.


robx


May 21, 2013, 6:42 PM
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Re: [marc801] X4 vs C4 [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
robx wrote:
-made in china - do with that what you will.
If it's "do with that what you will", then why do you list it as a con? BTW, all BD cams are made in China, as is much of their other gear.

Because some people like to buy rock pro that isn't made in china? I mean, clearly since I'm climbing on a full set of c4's, I have fewer problems with it than some, but for a non-american made cam it's expensive, and to many having it made in china is a con.

Personally, I'll fall on it anyway.


billcoe_


May 22, 2013, 6:59 PM
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Re: [robx] X4 vs C4 [In reply to]
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robx wrote:
I posted a similar write up on mp.com, but whatever:

I bought a .75 because I like having flexible stems in the gunks, and it's ~one size bigger than the red alien. I compared it to a standard green c4 and am much more impressed with the new x4 than my C4.


C4's ? Shouldn't the comparison be between Metolius Mastercams, BD C3's and Aliens? )Aliens and Totem Basics)


robx


May 22, 2013, 7:18 PM
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Re: [billcoe_] X4 vs C4 [In reply to]
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billcoe_ wrote:
robx wrote:
I posted a similar write up on mp.com, but whatever:

I bought a .75 because I like having flexible stems in the gunks, and it's ~one size bigger than the red alien. I compared it to a standard green c4 and am much more impressed with the new x4 than my C4.


C4's ? Shouldn't the comparison be between Metolius Mastercams, BD C3's and Aliens? )Aliens and Totem Basics)

I think the flexibility of the .75 is closer to that of an alien, but it's a size bigger than the red alien. That's why I compared them to the aliens. I compared it to the c4's because the green x4 is the same as the green c4 but like I said, the head is much more narrow.


markcarlson


May 23, 2013, 7:14 AM
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Re: [ACJ] X4 vs C4 [In reply to]
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I just picked up a .5 X4 and used it for the first time this past weekend.

On its second placement, it walked in (bad placement on my part,) and my second couldn't get it out. He said there was play on only one lobe when using the nut tool, and was able to twist the whole cam backward in the crack (stem straight in!) When I bought the cam, I noticed that the trigger did not fully close the lobes and I wonder how much this contributed to the removal problem.

When I went down to clean it out, I was able to get it out in a few seconds just by tapping the head with a nut tool. The cable was slightly kinked where it met the head as well as at the thumb loop. I was able to straighten it out by hand and it looks pretty close to brand new!

Overall, I am impressed with how the cam performed over the weekend, but I am still concerned about the trigger not fully closing the lobes.


robx


May 23, 2013, 9:57 AM
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Re: [markcarlson] X4 vs C4 [In reply to]
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markcarlson wrote:
I just picked up a .5 X4 and used it for the first time this past weekend.

On its second placement, it walked in (bad placement on my part,) and my second couldn't get it out. He said there was play on only one lobe when using the nut tool, and was able to twist the whole cam backward in the crack (stem straight in!) When I bought the cam, I noticed that the trigger did not fully close the lobes and I wonder how much this contributed to the removal problem.

When I went down to clean it out, I was able to get it out in a few seconds just by tapping the head with a nut tool. The cable was slightly kinked where it met the head as well as at the thumb loop. I was able to straighten it out by hand and it looks pretty close to brand new!

Overall, I am impressed with how the cam performed over the weekend, but I am still concerned about the trigger not fully closing the lobes.


That's something I noticed as well. It's not super obvious when you have it in your hand and are just playing with it, but if you have it next to a c4 it's pretty clear that the trigger doesn't seem to pull all the way back.


Partner climbinginchico


Jun 4, 2013, 9:53 PM
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Re: [robx] X4 vs C4 [In reply to]
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I just got a .75 X4 and while I have not placed it yet, I have of course fondled it extensively.

I have found that the trigger does completely retract the lobes. It's almost "two stage" in the way that it retracts. If you pull with regular force it retracts to 90-95% closed, and then if you pull harder it will fully retract to the end of the stop- against the other axle.

Width-wise, it's about a full lobe narrower than the .75 C4 I have, and while the lobes are a bit wider than the Orange alien I have, the overall width of the unit is almost exactly the same since the axle stops stick out quite a bit on the alien but just barely on the X4.

It will be interesting to place it and see how it compares to the alien- it feels about the same from a flexibility/floppiness perspective. I think I am going to like it.


Partner climbinginchico


Jul 15, 2013, 5:18 PM
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Re: [climbinginchico] X4 vs C4 [In reply to]
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Placed the .75 X4 extensively lately, climbing with my .75 C4 and Orange Alien. I prefer the X4. It fit perfectly in a few slots where the C4 would not go due to head width, and feels smoother and more secure than the alien. It's just as flexible, and more comfortable to place than the orange as well. I think I have a new favorite small cam.


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