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curt


Aug 19, 2004, 12:22 PM
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What's the point? I don't see how personal characterizations of Bachar reflect on his climbing resume in any way.

Right on Bro. Um, who said this thread was about John Bachar's climbing resume?

Well, this isn't People magazine, or even RC.com community, so the assumption is that this thread is somehow about climbing.

This isn't the Climbing Resume Forum either. This is the history channel. Are you suggesting that discussions about the personalities of historical climbers don't belong on a climbing history forum? Are you suggesting that Bachar's personality has nothing to do with his climbing?

It's totally on topic.

DMT

Oh obviously. That's why you are getting such wonderful responses to the same question you have asked two or three times now.

Curt


billcoe_


Aug 19, 2004, 1:32 PM
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Author's prerogitive there, I suppose. Ament also chose to include me in his book. What can I say? The guy obviously has a lack of proper perspective. :lol:

Curt


Curt thats funny.


BTW: this thread is starting to remind me of 2 dogs barking at each other. Probably nothing anybody can say of any substance to add to what's been said by some real qualified folks.

Lets go climb.


bvb


Aug 19, 2004, 2:23 PM
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jesus, at five pages it's high time this thread went away.

but not before someone tells me why the sage articulations contained in my post were deleted.

furthermore, does one not recieve some sort of PM when one's post is deleted, notifying the user of the deletion, and offering a brief rational for the deletion?

or is this just more of the notorious rc.com control-freak pathology?

speaking of control freaks, how about that bachar on the cookie? smooth as silk. daaaaaaaamn......


holmeslovesguinness


Aug 19, 2004, 3:17 PM
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Stealing a FA by cheating, IMO, then transcends stylistics and becomes an ethical issue.
Curt

Not that I've ever been in a position to make a FA or steal one... But seems like most guidebooks I've looked at that bother to mention who did the FA also usually mention who did the first FFA? I alsways assume a FA implies aid or some such thing, not a clean free ascent.


dee


Sep 2, 2004, 12:32 PM
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I have always had total respect for Bachar, his climbing achievements and his ethics. I will never forget my feeling of chagrin when he asked me if I was still "ground up" and I had to admit I had recently rap-bolted a FA. Over it now, ground up only!


curt


Sep 2, 2004, 12:46 PM
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Stealing a FA by cheating, IMO, then transcends stylistics and becomes an ethical issue.
Curt

Not that I've ever been in a position to make a FA or steal one... But seems like most guidebooks I've looked at that bother to mention who did the FA also usually mention who did the first FFA? I alsways assume a FA implies aid or some such thing, not a clean free ascent.

Unless you are specifically talking about freeing an aid route, "FA" and "FFA" mean the same thing.

Curt


timstich


Sep 2, 2004, 4:21 PM
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I really liked what few stories you guys posted earlier. That's what a history thread should have tons of. Good, detail-packed, non-censored, warts-and-all stories.


superbum


Nov 13, 2005, 11:02 PM
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I always regretted that johnnyb, who was indisputably the best rock climber in the world in his day and did things in the 80's that today's big number guys are incapable of, couldn't roll with the changes like his big brother Kauk. It's kind of a lesson to all of us, not to let your self image and self esteem get caught up in climbing ethics to the point where you have so much invested that you can't admit you were wrong, as most of our trad heros from the 80's did once the sport bandwagon got rolling. Bachar also really hurt his own cause by being an intolerant asshole, which did just as much to promote the point of view of those opposed to him as anything else. It's also a little poignant to watch the current generation trying half-heartedly to dust off and pick up the banner of pure ethics that jb carried, seemingly unaware that that battle was fought and lost 20 years ago, and the current high standards they now enjoy are a direct result of that defeat.

I look at him as the Henry Ford of climbing - a great innovator who eventually had his own company taken away from him because he wanted to keep producing the Model T.

What about the fact that he really fcking BELIEVED in something and refused to compromise his ideals under enormous amounts of pressure? He kicks ass. end of story.


lowerme


Feb 7, 2006, 8:02 PM
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:roll: As a relatively new climber I had just led Toejam at J.T. and was anchoring in at the belay when I look down to see this E.B. heelhook the ledge at my feet, then some fingertips appear, and finally this blond guy pulls over and says "Good Morning". He had just soloed Spiderline 11c/d. A couple years later I'm staring up the finger crack crux of The Direct Northwest Face on Lembert Dome, Touolumne. I'm taking way too much time (must have chalked up 50 times before finally commiting) when suddenly that same blond guy appeared from below, ropeless, and politely asked if he could climb through!


billcoe_


May 31, 2013, 8:14 AM
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Re: [lowerme] John Bachar [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
OK, let's see, were you in on the FA of Free Blast? Who chopped Robbins bolts? Why? To whom were they given? Does this equate to respect?

Cheers
DMT

Sorry for the late response Dingus. I missed your question 8 years ago. Mike Graham (of Gramicci clothing fame although he no longer owns that co.) chopped the bolts on the Salathe during an early ascent with Kevin Worrell. I am guessing that was more along the lines of what was occurring in those days, and not directly a slap at Robbins. Maybe a backhanded slap:-) But you can ask Graham or do some internet research.

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