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jt512
Jun 13, 2013, 1:06 AM
Post #26 of 35
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milesenoell wrote: Where I climb lowering off chains will get you scowls from the locals. Rapping is preferred to save the links from wear.
Where do you climb, n00bsville, Oregon?
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shotwell
Jun 13, 2013, 6:37 AM
Post #27 of 35
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kobaz wrote: shotwell wrote: So because other people perform a simple task incorrectly you're scared for your own safety? Pretty much. Many times your own safety is in fact, in the hands of another person.
So do you free solo a lot? Seriously, the commands to lower are simple. Off belay is not one of them, despite the fact that many people make that mistake.
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milesenoell
Jun 13, 2013, 6:58 AM
Post #28 of 35
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jt512 wrote: milesenoell wrote: Where I climb lowering off chains will get you scowls from the locals. Rapping is preferred to save the links from wear. Where do you climb, n00bsville, Oregon?
Yeah, it's a little past Gumbytown.
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chosschick
Jun 14, 2013, 5:28 AM
Post #29 of 35
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Registered: Dec 4, 2003
Posts: 57
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I was there for this accident - I was one of the instructors for the high school group.
This was a simple communication error. The climber got to the top, and said "I'm good". The belayer took him off belay.
There are a few points I want to make:
#1: Top rope climbing should be taken seriously - I see so much slackness at the crag around top rope climbing, and there really is so much that can go wrong if simple rules arent followed. These people were doing the simplest form of climbing - no anchors needed to be cleaned, and all they had to do is lean back and lower off. Climbing is a language, and if someone is speaking climbing jibberish, call them on it. IT really is so simple and not to be altered.
#2: Carry plenty of rescue gear - We were so lucky to have SEVERAL first aid kits at the scene. My wilderness first aid kit was depleted very quickly, and we had to stabilize the inujred person for an hour. We were so lucky to have a bushsaw to construct a helipad by cutting down trees. We were fortunate that my co-instructor had a GPS to clock in our exact location. Know the location of stretchers at a crag. These are all things that aided in the prognosis of the injured person's chance of survival. Safety gear is SO very important, and so underestimated.
P.S. - The injured person's helmet was cracked. It likely saved his life.
This is not a lecture, but I'm simply passing on some information in hopes that these types of events can be prevented. And, if they do happen, how can we manage them better.
AS far as how the climber is doing now, I wish to respect his privacy about sharing the extent of his injuries.
I will say that I am SO amazed that he lived. What a miracle, and a relief. We were so lucky to have so many competent students there who were able to be brave, step up, and help. Simply amazing!
If you have any questions for the purpose of prevention please ask. I am not interested in debates though, thanks!
(This post was edited by chosschick on Jun 14, 2013, 5:57 AM)
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redlude97
Jun 14, 2013, 6:29 AM
Post #30 of 35
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Registered: Aug 27, 2008
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chosschick wrote: I was there for this accident - I was one of the instructors for the high school group. This was a simple communication error. The climber got to the top, and said "I'm good". The belayer took him off belay. There are a few points I want to make: #1: Top rope climbing should be taken seriously - I see so much slackness at the crag around top rope climbing, and there really is so much that can go wrong if simple rules arent followed. These people were doing the simplest form of climbing - no anchors needed to be cleaned, and all they had to do is lean back and lower off. Climbing is a language, and if someone is speaking climbing jibberish, call them on it. IT really is so simple and not to be altered. #2: Carry plenty of rescue gear - We were so lucky to have SEVERAL first aid kits at the scene. My wilderness first aid kit was depleted very quickly, and we had to stabilize the inujred person for an hour. We were so lucky to have a bushsaw to construct a helipad by cutting down trees. We were fortunate that my co-instructor had a GPS to clock in our exact location. Know the location of stretchers at a crag. These are all things that aided in the prognosis of the injured person's chance of survival. Safety gear is SO very important, and so underestimated. P.S. - The injured person's helmet was cracked. It likely saved his life. This is not a lecture, but I'm simply passing on some information in hopes that these types of events can be prevented. And, if they do happen, how can we manage them better. AS far as how the climber is doing now, I wish to respect his privacy about sharing the extent of his injuries. I will say that I am SO amazed that he lived. What a miracle, and a relief. We were so lucky to have so many competent students there who were able to be brave, step up, and help. Simply amazing! If you have any questions for the purpose of prevention please ask. I am not interested in debates though, thanks!
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rocknice2
Jun 14, 2013, 1:22 PM
Post #31 of 35
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Registered: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 1221
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I hope the guy injuries aren't permanent and recovers fully.
I agree that communication is key in climbing but in this scenario what was the belayer expecting. Free solo down climb? The climber could have said anything and they shouldn't be taken off belay. The class must have been taught to take up slack as the climber goes up and then lower that climber back down to the ground. Period. Even if the climber said "Off Belay", they should have been question by the belayer.
Even though this was a class of noobs, One should expect the common person to realize that what goes up must come down. It's not rocket science. A misused belay device, grabbing the wrong rope side or any number of climbing specific tasks, is a noob accident. This one isn't. It's clearly a person not using their noodle.
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chosschick
Jun 14, 2013, 1:44 PM
Post #32 of 35
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Registered: Dec 4, 2003
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I need to make one thing very clear: The person who fell WAS NOT part of our class! He was taking a lap on one of our ropes. As to why the belayer did anything other than lower him - I believe that because they'd been climbing and then cleaning routes prior to this, perhaps (and this is speculation) "all good" was the communication they had used earlier in the day for off belay? They had climbed 5-6 routes prior that day. Of course there was lots of distraction at the crag with 16 students, so maybe the belayer spaced on the fact that they were climbing on our rope? We were low profile compared to most high school students, but I know we had 5 students on the wall right beside him
when he fell. Im
confused too.We will hopefully find out more precise details soon from the party themselves. Everyone involved in this situation has been shooken up, so getting to the bottom of this is going to take time.
(This post was edited by chosschick on Jun 14, 2013, 5:35 PM)
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rocknice2
Jun 18, 2013, 1:39 AM
Post #33 of 35
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Registered: Jul 13, 2006
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Sorry chosschick, I read it like they were part of the class.
If they were leading and cleaning then their communication was lacking. Unfortunately.
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majid_sabet
Jun 18, 2013, 4:41 PM
Post #34 of 35
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Registered: Dec 13, 2002
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This is one of the most common causes of injuries and even death in rock climbing. I am ok, I am good, I am on, off, tied ...........
The bottom end is this;
1- Always attach yourself with two pieces of cord to any anchor. this includes using the rope as one piece.
2-Never disconnect both pieces at the same time
3_Establish communication first and be clear /Disconnect first piece and put your weight on the rope and ask to make sure you are on belay then disconnect the last piece.
4- Most people are comfortable with one piece of attachment and that is 100% of your life is on 1 link. With two pieces , the chances of failure is 50-50 so even if one link fails, you still got one more attachment that could save your life
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jun 18, 2013, 4:42 PM)
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