Forums: Climbing Information: Beginners:
Looking for rappelling info
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Beginners

Premier Sponsor:

 


randyrhoads


Jun 22, 2013, 5:04 PM
Post #1 of 24 (4435 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2013
Posts: 12

Looking for rappelling info
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Not sure if this is the right site for strictly rappelling. Not too interested in climbing.

What I want to do is be able to go on hike or exploring in various areas in California, mostly on the coast in the redwoods, and be able to anchor off to a tree and go down inclines I couldn't really do on foot. Sometimes go on a straight high angle vertical drop for fun.

I am thinking of buying this kit.http://www.attackopgear.com/product/ORS200.html
only replacing the harness with thishttp://www.attackopgear.com/product/Y320.html with the chest piece attachment so it's NFPA approved for work too. Either that or just by a Yates full body padded for work and a tactical belt for personal use.

Any suggestions? Where can I find some good info on what i'm after, like attaching the rope in the middle to retrieve it after the rappel? Never seen that or done it before, and was excited to see I might not have to leave my rope in one spot until I return.


mckbill


Jun 22, 2013, 6:22 PM
Post #2 of 24 (4404 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 97

Re: [randyrhoads] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Randyrhoads,

What you describe fits more into what people in the canyoneering community like to do. Canyoneering anchor building techniques are typically less robust than what rock climbers make. Also, they have tricks for pulling the rope and retrieving their anchors that rock climbers tend to avoid or just never even try. Be advised, that is expert stuff, and there are many ways to get hurt, or worse, get your partner hurt.

This site that seems to have good information about the gear, and training. Learning from others IN REAL LIFE is especially important. You basically get one chance to get it right each time you commit to rappelling.

http://www.canyoneering.net/forums/content.php

On the other end of the safety extreme is the caving community. The caving folks tend to have more elaborate systems for rappelling and ascending the line. Here's another site to check out:

http://www.caves.org/

Rock climbers tend to avoid rappelling. It is a necessary skill to have, but if there's a way to walk off many choose that.

Best to learn from others and just get the gear you need as you begin your apprenticeship in whatever community most closely matches your interests. I'm thinking canyoneering is the best fit.

Good luck to you in your future endeavors!


randyrhoads


Jun 22, 2013, 6:34 PM
Post #3 of 24 (4389 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2013
Posts: 12

Re: [mckbill] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Thank you! I will give the site a browse. I am trained in rope rescue through the fire department, although I know that's a whole different ball game. Our rpm stays top side while others operate your brake bar and belay line. But we do get to train while getting certified on fight 8s and a couple raps controlling our own brake bar.
In reply to:


Syd


Jun 23, 2013, 3:23 AM
Post #4 of 24 (4260 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2012
Posts: 300

Re: [randyrhoads] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

You should first decide exactly where you want to go and how much rope you'll need. You should be able to set up for much less than the kit.


randyrhoads


Jun 23, 2013, 1:24 PM
Post #5 of 24 (4146 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2013
Posts: 12

Re: [Syd] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Do you mean much less as far as price, or rope length?


randyrhoads


Jun 23, 2013, 2:35 PM
Post #6 of 24 (4128 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2013
Posts: 12

Re: [mckbill] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Also, do you know of any other rappelling forums that are a little more active? That canyoneering one has about one post per month.....


Syd


Jun 23, 2013, 9:00 PM
Post #7 of 24 (4056 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2012
Posts: 300

Re: [randyrhoads] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

randyrhoads wrote:
Do you mean much less as far as price, or rope length?

Price ... but work out exactly what you need before buying anything.


randyrhoads


Jun 23, 2013, 9:05 PM
Post #8 of 24 (4054 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2013
Posts: 12

Re: [Syd] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

What's wrong with it? Rope seems to be at least 1$ a foot. Harness is 100$+ rope bag eight anchor and eight.

That seems like what I want/ need. Enough for a 100' rappel with basic equipment. All I might need more than that is a couple extra biners and some webbing?


mckbill


Jun 23, 2013, 9:16 PM
Post #9 of 24 (4054 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 97

Re: [randyrhoads] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

RandyRhoads,

I found the canyoneering site on a quick google search. You can look further for other sites to see if they may have more activity.

If you are daring and able to withstand joking and ridicule you might post your question to supertopo.com. However, before doing so I recommend studying the rappelling threads at that site's forum. There have been some recent ones where someone asked about and then actually rappelled el cap. He and his partner got in a situation where they required a rescue. I think that represents the ultimate in daring and naivety.

http://www.supertopo.com/...appelling-El-Capitan

Supertopo also has some great humor on the subject spun by one poster called, Weld_it, who unfortunately has not been very active lately.

The gear you asked about is a tactical kit that is kind of ninja-looking and really not something one sees around in areas where people go rappelling or climbing or canyoneering or caving. I think someone posted a youtube of himself and a friend using a kit like this to rap off of a parking garage. Funny stuff.

I'll also take a shot at a reply to your question to Syd where you asked about the meaning of less (cost or rope length) and the answer is cost. That tactical rappelling kit is expensive (nearly $500) because it is a specialized kit.

--edit ^^^ I started typing this before Syd's reply---

Probably most economical to buy the gear you need individually, but there are many options and choices in addition to color and that's another reason why it's good to learn from others IN REAL LIFE before spending money.

For what it's worth, this is the basic gear, but you could get more or less. I just went to backcountry.com and went on a pretend shopping spree. Here's a copy/paste of the shopping cart with just the essentials.

Mammut Supernova Climbing Rope w/ Bag - 10mm
Fire, 60m - MAM0326-FIRE-S60M
$149.95

Momentum Speed Adjust Harness - Men's
Black Diamond Momentum Speed Adjust Harness - Men's
$54.95

Half Dome Helmet
Black Diamond Half Dome Helmet
$59.95

Reverso 4 Belay and Rappel Device
Petzl Reverso 4 Belay and Rappel Device
$32.95

Orbit Twist Lock Carabiner (get one to connect to your rappel device)
$13.90

Pre Cut Accessory Cord - 6mm x 30ft
Blue Water Pre Cut Accessory Cord - 6mm x 30ft
$11.95

^^^ or get a big hank of webbing (stuff to wrap around trees, rocks, whathaveyou that you would trust as an anchor)

Rocklock Carabiner (get a couple)
Black Diamond Rocklock Carabiner
$19.90

Oval Carabiner (get 4 or so)
Black Diamond Oval Carabiner
$23.80

=============
Total $367.35




That's the basic stuff I would get based on my rock climbing gear preferences. Canyoneers would probably want a different kind of harness as would cavers.

It's up to you to investigate the community that most closely matches your interests and then learn from people in REAL LIFE as you have done in your search and rescue training.

Best regards,
--Bill McKirgan


(This post was edited by mckbill on Jun 23, 2013, 9:39 PM)


majid_sabet


Jun 23, 2013, 9:59 PM
Post #10 of 24 (4037 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 8358

Re: [randyrhoads] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rappelling sounds pretty straight forward but more people with all sorts of background get killed while doing it so you need to do your homework first before rapping off from an anchor especially going down on ocean side cliff with potential of too many unknown things that could go wrong.

once you study both rappelling and ascending rope ( in case you don't make down to the bottom) then you can go buy stuff to get your kit made.

for simple short distance (under 300 foot) rap you need

200-300 foot 10mm +- 0.5mm static rope
(2-4) set of 20-25 footer 1" webbing (4000lbs rated)
A rappelling device (8 plate with side ear)
A pair of gloves
Helmet
Any adjustable harness
5 locking and 5 non-locking aluminum carabiner with min 20kn rating
headlamp
rope bag with backpack strap
topo map of area and plan B kit in case you spend a night on the wall freezing your ass off because you miss-calculated the rap distance
cell phone # and a note on the car so park ranger know you are goofing around.


randyrhoads


Jun 23, 2013, 10:11 PM
Post #11 of 24 (4030 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2013
Posts: 12

Re: [majid_sabet] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

majid_sabet wrote:
rappelling sounds pretty straight forward but more people with all sorts of background get killed while doing it so you need to do your homework first before rapping off from an anchor especially going down on ocean side cliff with potential of too many unknown things that could go wrong.

once you study both rappelling and ascending rope ( in case you don't make down to the bottom) then you can go buy stuff to get your kit made.

for simple short distance (under 300 foot) rap you need

200-300 foot 10mm +- 0.5mm static rope
(2-4) set of 20-25 footer 1" webbing (4000lbs rated)
A rappelling device (8 plate with side ear)
A pair of gloves
Helmet
Any adjustable harness
5 locking and 5 non-locking aluminum carabiner with min 20kn rating
headlamp
rope bag with backpack strap
topo map of area and plan B kit in case you spend a night on the wall freezing your ass off because you miss-calculated the rap distance
cell phone # and a note on the car so park ranger know you are goofing around.
That's sounds like more than what i'm after right now. I'm talking about mostly low angle stuff for some quick fun exploring. I'm not talking about going on a multiple day hike way into the wilderness alone. I'm talking about maybe being out and about, seeing a cool creek down an embankment I can't safely walk down, and don't feel like walking way around to get to. Any high angle I did I would most likely be very short <100' and i'd have someone else around for help.

I do see the importance of learning to ascend a rope, even when just rappelling after reading that article about the two guys getting stuck on El Capitan. But again i'm talking very mild stuff you'd probably laugh at for now. Reading around here though is making me interested in maybe climbing and learning more in depth stuff.

Any good links/books/info I can read through that aren't some google'd eHow-to that will get me killed?
Also, what are the non locking carabiners for?


(This post was edited by randyrhoads on Jun 23, 2013, 10:41 PM)


randyrhoads


Jun 23, 2013, 10:16 PM
Post #12 of 24 (4029 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2013
Posts: 12

Re: [mckbill] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

mckbill wrote:

The gear you asked about is a tactical kit that is kind of ninja-looking and really not something one sees around in areas where people go rappelling or climbing or canyoneering or caving. I think someone posted a youtube of himself and a friend using a kit like this to rap off of a parking garage. Funny stuff.

I see you're point. Lets just say this kit is to hold me over so I can be a ninja and rappel off parking garages until I learn proper climbing/rappelling. (Haha, just kidding about the parking garage...) I am serious about holding me over though. I've been anxious to get in a harness and mess around on some mild inclines, and it sounds like it's going to take me a long time to get enough training to doing anything really exciting.

How do most people learn this sport? Books? College class? Friends? Youtube(haha)?


mckbill


Jun 24, 2013, 6:08 AM
Post #13 of 24 (3902 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 97

Re: [randyrhoads] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Randyrhodes,

It's an expensive hold-over solution (purchasing a $500 rappelling kit).

To get started you might just get a harness that fits you, a belay / rappelling device, a short rope, and practice on low angle hillsides (hills you can walk, and which are nowhere near steep drop-offs). That will cost much less than the tactical rappelling kit. This way you can get a feel for the system you wish to learn about, but can do so in a way that insulates you from the major risks. You can simply loop the rope at it's mid-point around a stout tree and back down the hill feeling how the rappelling device works to provide friction. If you do this, don't pull the rope as it will create a sawing action on the tree bark (remember to leave no trace and be nice to the trees). Wink Also, study the rules of the park you are visiting. They may prohibit the use of trees for anchors. Breaking the rules can jeopardize access to others in the community who wish to climb, or rappel.

Now, doing some hillside rappel practice near a climbing area will attract attention, but will probably not freak anyone out. The attention you get may garner you some invitations to participate with the climbers who can then help you learn about the equipment, it's use, and the great variety of risks in rappelling. There are many ways to get hurt besides actually falling. Getting stuck in high angle terrain with no way out can also be a killer (hanging in your harness for too long can actually kill you in short order (HANGING HARNESS SYNDROME)).

^^^ http://www.caves.org/...l/nh/45/harness.html

The best practice is to learn this stuff from others in real life. I recommend seeking out an organized club to get started. Random people you encounter in a park may be experts who have time to show you things, or they may be nearly clueless and unknowingly put you and themselves at risk.

I learned a great deal from the Chicago Mountaineering Club who welcomes the general public on outings at Devils Lake, Wisconsin. Clubs like CMC will teach all aspects of equipment use and safety, and it is never a quick process. People get initiated in the activity and gradually get to participate in higher-level tasks like building anchors for top roping which can also be used for rappelling (solid, equalized, redundant, and no extension). Eventually the initiates may become trusted to build anchors for all to enjoy, but these are always given a final check by 'rope leaders' who are the most experienced members of the club. If you do a bit of research you will likely find some great and responsible climbing, caving, canyoneering clubs in your neck of the woods.

That's the best practice, to learn from experienced people in real life.

Here's a link to a funny and instructional example of one of the hazards of rappelling: getting your beard stuck in the device (or hair or a shirt tail, whathaveyou).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9YrUojX7mA

While funny, this is just the kind of thing that can take one by surprise and turn what should be a fun high-angle rappel into a life-threatening situation.

So again, learn from people in real life. You are fortunate to have some experience learning rescue skills with the fire department in your community. Consider how carefully they introduce new people to the equipment and how to use it. Consider how they always backup systems, and rarely let someone rappel on their own. It's interesting to note here that the belay we provide from the ground for our partners who are on rappel is called a "Fireman's belay".

Above all else remember that YOU GET ONE CHANCE to get it right each time you commit to a high angle rappel. What appears to be simple is actually very complex considering the many different ways failure can visit even the most experienced in any community of people who use this kind of equipment.

In the linked video, Santa was lucky because he had a partner to come to his rescue. As I watched that video again I noticed he may have actually removed his hand from the brake side for an instant, but then kept it locked down until someone from the SAS team could rap in and cut him loose.

So my friend, stick with the low angle hillsides if you must train yourself in isolation. That being said, I will echo Majid's advice to you and strongly recommend you always tell someone when and where you are out on your own so they will know to be worried if they don't see you later in the day.

Good luck to you in finding a safe way to realize your dreams.

Kind regards,

--Bill McKirgan,
another Iowa Climber


majid_sabet


Jun 24, 2013, 10:15 AM
Post #14 of 24 (3819 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 8358

Re: [randyrhoads] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

randyrhoads wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
rappelling sounds pretty straight forward but more people with all sorts of background get killed while doing it so you need to do your homework first before rapping off from an anchor especially going down on ocean side cliff with potential of too many unknown things that could go wrong.

once you study both rappelling and ascending rope ( in case you don't make down to the bottom) then you can go buy stuff to get your kit made.

for simple short distance (under 300 foot) rap you need

200-300 foot 10mm +- 0.5mm static rope
(2-4) set of 20-25 footer 1" webbing (4000lbs rated)
A rappelling device (8 plate with side ear)
A pair of gloves
Helmet
Any adjustable harness
5 locking and 5 non-locking aluminum carabiner with min 20kn rating
headlamp
rope bag with backpack strap
topo map of area and plan B kit in case you spend a night on the wall freezing your ass off because you miss-calculated the rap distance
cell phone # and a note on the car so park ranger know you are goofing around.
That's sounds like more than what i'm after right now. I'm talking about mostly low angle stuff for some quick fun exploring. I'm not talking about going on a multiple day hike way into the wilderness alone. I'm talking about maybe being out and about, seeing a cool creek down an embankment I can't safely walk down, and don't feel like walking way around to get to. Any high angle I did I would most likely be very short <100' and i'd have someone else around for help.

I do see the importance of learning to ascend a rope, even when just rappelling after reading that article about the two guys getting stuck on El Capitan. But again i'm talking very mild stuff you'd probably laugh at for now. Reading around here though is making me interested in maybe climbing and learning more in depth stuff.

Any good links/books/info I can read through that aren't some google'd eHow-to that will get me killed?
Also, what are the non locking carabiners for?

if you check the accident forum on this site, I posted over 1000 accident reports and many of them related to rappelling errors . not to mention that there are many that I can't talk about, including many that had fatality involved . last year a women got both of her leg amputee after she fell from end of the rope while rapping and you may read the incident report this year in ANAM. I even wrote a recommendation on the accident forum on things to watch out while rapping. This is a serious business you need to know many skills including ascending long length of rope if you are going to explore unknown territory.

in rapping, the non-locking carabiner serves as disposable biners in case you need to leave them behind on an anchor. you can also use rap rings but biner can be used for other purposes and are more useful than rap ring. rap rings are little cheaper.

best thing is get some books and read it then by the equipment and find a very low angle hillside and walk back with rapping system in place and slowly change the hills side to little steeper till you become confident with high angle .


Having headlamp and some of the plan B stuff I mentioned are not an option and you would not believe how many people been rescued on a simple 30 min rappelling.

Don't be part of the statistic


marc801


Jun 24, 2013, 10:56 AM
Post #15 of 24 (3807 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2747

Re: [randyrhoads] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

randyrhoads wrote:
That's sounds like more than what i'm after right now. I'm talking about mostly low angle stuff for some quick fun exploring. I'm not talking about going on a multiple day hike way into the wilderness alone. I'm talking about maybe being out and about, seeing a cool creek down an embankment I can't safely walk down, and don't feel like walking way around to get to. Any high angle I did I would most likely be very short <100' and i'd have someone else around for help.
The thing is, the gear you need doesn't change because of angle or length or local vs wilderness.

randyrhoads wrote:
I do see the importance of learning to ascend a rope, even when just rappelling after reading that article about the two guys getting stuck on El Capitan. But again i'm talking very mild stuff you'd probably laugh at for now. Reading around here though is making me interested in maybe climbing and learning more in depth stuff.

Any good links/books/info I can read through that aren't some google'd eHow-to that will get me killed?

Click on "Articles" up there on the main navigation bar, then on that page click on the "Introduction to climbing" link, then the "Start Here" links.


randyrhoads


Jun 24, 2013, 11:00 AM
Post #16 of 24 (3803 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2013
Posts: 12

Re: [marc801] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Thanks everyone for taking the time for the detailed responses. I'll check out the articles, go to the library and look for books. The mall santa was funny.

All this makes me wonder why I was allowed to rope down a big cavern by myself when I was 12. Doesn't seem like a smart idea on their part letting kids do that.

Also, seeing all the safety measures here and the FD make me chuckle at my military rap experiences. So much safety and double checking, belay lines and such, and in the military we all were required to do raps with incorrectly tied swiss seats with old rope in terrible condition.

Also, I just stretched out our 200' rope bag in the station. Never had the whole thing deployed before, man that's a lot of rope. Think i'll just get 100'


(This post was edited by randyrhoads on Jun 24, 2013, 11:17 AM)


marc801


Jun 24, 2013, 12:32 PM
Post #17 of 24 (3772 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2747

Re: [randyrhoads] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

randyrhoads wrote:
Also, I just stretched out our 200' rope bag in the station. Never had the whole thing deployed before, man that's a lot of rope. Think i'll just get 100'
The most common length of climbing rope these days is 60m, or about 3' less than 200'. You do realize that in most climbing rappel situations, the rope is doubled over at the middle so that it can be retrieved from the bottom by pulling on one side, yes?


randyrhoads


Jun 24, 2013, 12:38 PM
Post #18 of 24 (3770 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2013
Posts: 12

Re: [marc801] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Yes, I double the 200' rope to simulate that, then put half away and doubled that. 50' seemed a little distance shorter than I wanted, but 100' seemed way to long, and not practical to haul around a hike. If I was going to haul a 200' rope bag and gear around a hike it seems like I would have to dedicate the hike to a spot I knew I was going to hit, rather than just carrying it with the chance I found a cool spot.


dagibbs


Jun 24, 2013, 12:50 PM
Post #19 of 24 (3762 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 30, 2007
Posts: 887

Re: [randyrhoads] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

randyrhoads wrote:

Also, seeing all the safety measures here and the FD make me chuckle at my military rap experiences. So much safety and double checking, belay lines and such, and in the military we all were required to do raps with incorrectly tied swiss seats with old rope in terrible condition.

The military generally have far different ideas of acceptable losses than civilian, or recreational, participants in an activity.

In fact, in military situations, it may be the case that going slowly is even more dangerous than going quickly (if under fire, or at risk of being under fire), whereas the opposite is generally the case for climbers. (Generally... there are exceptions, e.g. racing a storm.)


randyrhoads


Jun 24, 2013, 8:09 PM
Post #20 of 24 (3701 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2013
Posts: 12

Re: [dagibbs] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

So I went to REI. I got everything but a harness and figure 8. I was happy they had one rope on clearance that fit my needs. For $105 ,7/16, 150' (right in the middle between what I felt was too long and too short) Blue Water.
Also got 30' of 1" tubular webbing with a strength of 18kN
2 Black Diamond locking screw gate carabiners at 7kN
and 30' of 7mm polyester accessory cord (9.8kN) for tying prusik loops

Anyone see anything wrong with this, or a piece of gear that isn't up to par?

[URL=http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/WildernessMedic/media/Rappelling/photo-17_zps6bfe71b7.jpg.html]


dagibbs


Jun 24, 2013, 9:41 PM
Post #21 of 24 (3679 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 30, 2007
Posts: 887

Re: [randyrhoads] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

That all looks pretty reasonable.

30' of accessory cord is a lot of Prusik loops, but it can be useful for other things, too.


randyrhoads


Jun 24, 2013, 9:47 PM
Post #22 of 24 (3675 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2013
Posts: 12

Re: [dagibbs] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

dagibbs wrote:
That all looks pretty reasonable.

30' of accessory cord is a lot of Prusik loops, but it can be useful for other things, too.

Awesome, good to hear.

Yeah they only had lengths of 30', and it was only $10. I already tied short and long prusik loops using triple fishermens knots, still have a bit left over, but it never hurts to have spares!

I cut my webbing into a 15' section, 10', and 5'.

It's so tempting to slam that 15' webbing into a hasty harness and go ghetto rappelling with just prusiks or a binder, but I know how that could end up.

Going to order my harness and fig 8 tomorrow. Still having trouble deciding on the harness.


mckbill


Jun 25, 2013, 7:08 AM
Post #23 of 24 (3569 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 97

Re: [randyrhoads] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Randyrhoades,

I agree the gear you got looks good for rappelling, or ascending the line. Also good for hauling.

You might invest in more webbing. In my neck of the woods it is helpful to have much more. I started with a 60-footer, and when tied in a loop it is reduced to just under 30 foot. This is ideal for me to girth hitch on any stout tree and still have plenty left over to get to the edge for setting up a top rope anchor. Later, I got another 60 foot and cut that to a 20 and 30 giving me 10 and 15-foot loops.

Webbing is tied in a loop with a water knot (tails should be 6 inches or maybe a bit more).

There's other ways to use webbing of course. A method I like and learned from reading about rescue anchors is 'wrap three pull two'. Very strong and kind to the trees; however, it consumes a lot of webbing.

You can fabricate a harness with the webbing and practice on a hillside where there is no danger of actually falling. Look up munter hitch for rappelling. You can use that instead of a fig-8 rappelling device; however, it will put kinks in your static line.

fwiw: Please don't ever use that static rope for climbing of any kind, even top roping. I know you stated initially that you are not interested in climbing, but should you change your mind you should know that a static line will not stretch enough to soften the fall the way a climbing rope is designed to stretch. A short fall onto a static line can break the climbers back as the fall is arrested.

Keep that in mind if / when you ascend the line with prussic loops. If you take a fall with any slack in the line it can be painful.

Above all do lots of practice on hillsides before you actually commit to rappelling off of something where your life actually depends on the system. If you are learning this by yourself you must be exactly right every time. With that said, I repeat my advice and strongly encourage you to seek out people you can learn from in real life.

I will confess that when I started climbing in 2005 I was eager to begin, not very social, and taught myself many things by practicing in situations I thought were safe. I was lucky I did not injure myself. In retrospect, I realize I was foolhardy, and even did things like teach my wife how to belay and put her in a situation where she would be helpless to do anything for me if I got injured.

Practicing on a hillside is safe, and could be a great way to attract attention and get invited to learn from more experienced people. The best thing that happened to me in my early days of climbing was to be invited to climb with a group of people who saw what I was doing. They were concerned and asked me and my wife to join them.

The leader of that group became one of my rock climbing mentors, and shortly after that I met my regular climbing partner.

There's safety in responsible groups. Seek them out and learn everything you can.

Wishing you fun and safety in all your rappelling endeavors.

--Bill


randyrhoads


Jun 25, 2013, 9:18 AM
Post #24 of 24 (3527 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2013
Posts: 12

Re: [mckbill] Looking for rappelling info [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

mckbill wrote:
Randyrhoades,

I agree the gear you got looks good for rappelling, or ascending the line. Also good for hauling.

You might invest in more webbing. In my neck of the woods it is helpful to have much more. I started with a 60-footer, and when tied in a loop it is reduced to just under 30 foot. This is ideal for me to girth hitch on any stout tree and still have plenty left over to get to the edge for setting up a top rope anchor. Later, I got another 60 foot and cut that to a 20 and 30 giving me 10 and 15-foot loops.

Webbing is tied in a loop with a water knot (tails should be 6 inches or maybe a bit more).

There's other ways to use webbing of course. A method I like and learned from reading about rescue anchors is 'wrap three pull two'. Very strong and kind to the trees; however, it consumes a lot of webbing.

You can fabricate a harness with the webbing and practice on a hillside where there is no danger of actually falling. Look up munter hitch for rappelling. You can use that instead of a fig-8 rappelling device; however, it will put kinks in your static line.

fwiw: Please don't ever use that static rope for climbing of any kind, even top roping. I know you stated initially that you are not interested in climbing, but should you change your mind you should know that a static line will not stretch enough to soften the fall the way a climbing rope is designed to stretch. A short fall onto a static line can break the climbers back as the fall is arrested.

Keep that in mind if / when you ascend the line with prussic loops. If you take a fall with any slack in the line it can be painful.

Above all do lots of practice on hillsides before you actually commit to rappelling off of something where your life actually depends on the system. If you are learning this by yourself you must be exactly right every time. With that said, I repeat my advice and strongly encourage you to seek out people you can learn from in real life.

I will confess that when I started climbing in 2005 I was eager to begin, not very social, and taught myself many things by practicing in situations I thought were safe. I was lucky I did not injure myself. In retrospect, I realize I was foolhardy, and even did things like teach my wife how to belay and put her in a situation where she would be helpless to do anything for me if I got injured.

Practicing on a hillside is safe, and could be a great way to attract attention and get invited to learn from more experienced people. The best thing that happened to me in my early days of climbing was to be invited to climb with a group of people who saw what I was doing. They were concerned and asked me and my wife to join them.

The leader of that group became one of my rock climbing mentors, and shortly after that I met my regular climbing partner.

There's safety in responsible groups. Seek them out and learn everything you can.

Wishing you fun and safety in all your rappelling endeavors.

--Bill
Thanks for the reply and concern. I'm familiar with the water knot wrap three pull two and many self adjusting rescue anchors. We were taught to never use a girth hitch because it was a weaker one for light duty, but it looks like that's ok here for one person. I noticed a lot of this gear is rated extremely lower than FD gear

I will definitely buy some more webbing. I can see lengths needed are different here. A 5' webbing for a basket sling probably wont fit around most anchors in nature.

If i'm ghosting is 550 paracord ok to use as the pull cord to retrieve my anchor?


(This post was edited by randyrhoads on Jun 25, 2013, 9:20 AM)


Forums : Climbing Information : Beginners

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?
$1.58 (10% off)
$17.95 (10% off)
$13.46 (10% off)
$2.66 (10% off)



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook