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Rust on my black diamond camalots
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grahamh


Jul 4, 2013, 8:17 AM
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Rust on my black diamond camalots
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I'm trying to better understand why the dual axels on my cams which were well lubricated got rusty while sitting in an airtight bag for over a couple years. As most people don't know, stainless steel needs oxygen or can weaken and become brittle, while showing only slight signs of rust on the outside, due to lack of oxygen. Then again I found a bd cam once at the base of Moonlight Buttress with some rust on the axels which was probably just from rain. So it seems that the dual axels could be a 304 stainless steel, a mild steel with something added like nickel to slow corosion, or some other type of alloy all together. I've reciently replaced and retired these cams but am hoping someone can shed some light into what those axels are made of.


rocknice2


Jul 4, 2013, 8:54 AM
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Re: [grahamh] Rust on my black diamond camalots [In reply to]
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Air tight is not vacuum packed. I think storing in a dark, cool and well ventilated area is the standard recommended and the norm is in a big Rubbermaid box. I have some really old cams stored this way and they are not rusted at all.

It may be from condensation inside the bag which wasn't able to breath.
What did you lube them with?

As for, what the axle material is? My best guess would be cromoly. Stainless has a tendency to work harden and that would be bad. But, I don't know for sure what material they use for the axles.


grahamh


Jul 4, 2013, 9:31 AM
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Re: [rocknice2] Rust on my black diamond camalots [In reply to]
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They were coated in oil which was still present years later upon opening the ziplock bags. Definatly no condensation. So how does cromoly steel do in an oxygen deprived environment? All else equal would the axles still be strong or can cromoly rot and become brittle like ss?


bearbreeder


Jul 4, 2013, 4:56 PM
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Re: [grahamh] Rust on my black diamond camalots [In reply to]
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minor surface rust? ... clean and lube em up and climb away

Wink


grahamh


Jul 5, 2013, 7:35 AM
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I snapped the head off an oxygen deprived 1/2" diameter 316 ss bolt with 3 foot pounds of force. It had just surface rust but was rotten on the inside as happens with ss. Scarry shit because a little buff with the brass brush and the brown/ grey core that was revealed turned shiny again. This is why I want to know the material of those camalot axles and how it is effected, if at all, in a low oxygen environment.


bearbreeder


Jul 5, 2013, 11:47 AM
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Re: [grahamh] Rust on my black diamond camalots [In reply to]
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place the gear and bounce test it ...

or take whippers on a climb with clean falls backed up with gear and/or a top rope

thatll tell ya

Tongue


marc801


Jul 5, 2013, 2:14 PM
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Re: [grahamh] Rust on my black diamond camalots [In reply to]
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grahamh wrote:
I snapped the head off an oxygen deprived 1/2" diameter 316 ss bolt with 3 foot pounds of force. It had just surface rust but was rotten on the inside as happens with ss. Scarry shit because a little buff with the brass brush and the brown/ grey core that was revealed turned shiny again. This is why I want to know the material of those camalot axles and how it is effected, if at all, in a low oxygen environment.
Describe the "airtight bag" they were stored in. IOW, is the low O2 environment as low as you think it is?


grahamh


Jul 5, 2013, 2:32 PM
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They were in 2 layers of 1 gal ziplocks and coated with vegitable oil as at the time I thought the moist salty air around the ocean was the concern. I supose in places where the oil was sandwiched between the plastic and camalot it was quite air tight in those specific spots


marc801


Jul 5, 2013, 2:41 PM
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grahamh wrote:
They were in 2 layers of 1 gal ziplocks and coated with vegitable oil as at the time I thought the moist salty air around the ocean was the concern. I supose in places where the oil was sandwiched between the plastic and camalot it was quite air tight in those specific spots
OK.
Next question: did you contact BD and ask them directly?


grahamh


Jul 5, 2013, 3:32 PM
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ya I did, I guess BD doesn't wish to disclose such specifics....... but maybe I'll try again. Anyway if I can't figure it out I know a guy puting up routes in Thailand that would be psyched to use them for the sole purpose of puling him in while drilling, cleaning, and glueing on the super steep limestone.


jonapprill


Jul 5, 2013, 4:09 PM
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Re: [grahamh] Rust on my black diamond camalots [In reply to]
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grahamh wrote:
They were in 2 layers of 1 gal ziplocks and coated with vegitable oil as at the time I thought the moist salty air around the ocean was the concern. I supose in places where the oil was sandwiched between the plastic and camalot it was quite air tight in those specific spots

I think the problem is the vegetable oil. It sounds like it oxidized and provided the perfect environment for pitting (low pH).


(This post was edited by jonapprill on Jul 5, 2013, 4:13 PM)


marc801


Jul 5, 2013, 4:54 PM
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grahamh wrote:
ya I did, I guess BD doesn't wish to disclose such specifics....... but maybe I'll try again. Anyway if I can't figure it out I know a guy puting up routes in Thailand that would be psyched to use them for the sole purpose of puling him in while drilling, cleaning, and glueing on the super steep limestone.
Hey! Just send them to me. I'll be happy to use, uh, test them for you.


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