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JasonsDrivingForce
Jul 19, 2013, 5:22 PM
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I know this isn't about a specific accident that has happened. However, for once I would like to discuss an accident before it happens.
The issue is that a lot of the young climbers don't wear Helmets when climbing especially on lead. One of the reasons that they don't wear them is simply that they are uncomfortable and don't fit their smaller heads right.
I have always taught my son that a Helmet is a required piece of safety equipment and not an option. However, he keeps telling me that it simply won't stay on right.
The Helmet is a youth Helmet but it still is not tight enough even when it is tightened all the way. The Helmet always slides off the back of his head when he looks up especially when he is sweating. In the summer in NC that pretty much always happens.
The picture below shows how the Helmet keeps sliding off. We even tried to Balance it better by attaching the GoPro to the front of it. That actually worked but really isn't a sustainable solution.
So my question is "What is a good Helmet that will protect a child or a person with a very small head". Is a bicycle Helmet or skate boarding Helmet a better option? If so is there a style of Helmet that would work best for climbing?
He has always worn his Helmet. However, I am starting to wonder if it really is going to protect him in the case of an upside down fall. Until now he has only top roped. However, he is asking to lead outside and I want to make absolutely sure that he has a properly fitting Helmet before he does that.
Have any of you used a Helmet that fit well with a small child or someone with a hat size much less than size 7?
(This post was edited by JasonsDrivingForce on Jul 19, 2013, 5:26 PM)
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bearbreeder
Jul 19, 2013, 5:42 PM
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this should be in gear and not A&I ... its not about any specific accident
helmets help ... but more important is to teach the climber to ALWAYS instinctively keep their feet clear of the rope ... and when they fall try their best to fall FEET FIRST ...
and the ONLY way to make these habits second nature is to constantly lead and fall ...
move this thread to gear ...
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JasonsDrivingForce
Jul 19, 2013, 5:49 PM
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I understand that this definitely applies to the gear thread. However, I don’t see why we have to wait for an accident to happen before we can discuss it here. That just sounds morbid.
Can’t we for once just imagine that an accident occurred like this and discuss what could have been done to prevent it?
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bearbreeder
Jul 19, 2013, 6:04 PM
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JasonsDrivingForce wrote: I understand that this definitely applies to the gear thread. However, I don’t see why we have to wait for an accident to happen before we can discuss it here. That just sounds morbid. Can’t we for once just imagine that an accident occurred like this and discuss what could have been done to prevent it?
no because tons of people will start imagining stuff as the recent "poll" which was really an agenda thread shows ...
you asked a GEAR question ...
or should i start a thread in A&I about how we gym gumbies are causing gong shows all over the place and making accidents more likely here
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lena_chita
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Jul 19, 2013, 6:52 PM
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I moved this thread to Gear forum.
As to the answer, I wish I could tell you anything good.
I have a small head. And I have never found a helmet that fits me comfortably. The helmet I do have is Petzl Elia, which is not really designed to protect against impact in case of an inverted fall, so it is not what you are looking for.
My head circumference is well within the range for the helmet size that I have, and it is adjusted so it does not slide. But it feels like there is a disproportionate weight of the helmet is in the back, and wearing it for extended period of time hurts my neck, especially if I do any looking up.
I think a skateboarding helmet would be a good choice to try. Bike helmet-- not so much, because the aerodynamic shape of the bike helmet requires the extra protruding "tail" in the back, which would exacerbate the neck fatigue, when looking up. And I am not sure how it would act in case of an impact to the back of the head.
(This post was edited by lena_chita on Jul 19, 2013, 6:53 PM)
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shimanilami
Jul 19, 2013, 7:43 PM
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I got my kids Protec skateboarding helmets and they use them for everything - skateboarding, skiing, biking, climbing ... you name it. They are made for taking impact from almost any direction, and they are burly so you don't have to worry about your kid dropping it, stepping on it, etc. And although they probably weren't made to protect from something dropping on their head, their burliness makes me think they'd handle it at least as well as any modern climbing helmet you'll find.
The one downside is that they are relatively heavy and don't have much ventilation. My kids don't know the difference, though, and I'm fine with that. If they complained, I'd just tell them they should be glad they're not wearing a motorcross helmet instead.
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JasonsDrivingForce
Jul 19, 2013, 7:55 PM
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shimanilami wrote: I got my kids Protec skateboarding helmets and they use them for everything - skateboarding, skiing, biking, climbing ... you name it. They are made for taking impact from almost any direction, and they are burly so you don't have to worry about your kid dropping it, stepping on it, etc. And although they probably weren't made to protect from something dropping on their head, their burliness makes me think they'd handle it at least as well as any modern climbing helmet you'll find. The one downside is that they are relatively heavy and don't have much ventilation. My kids don't know the difference, though, and I'm fine with that. If they complained, I'd just tell them they should be glad they're not wearing a motorcross helmet instead.
I have the Protec Helmet for him and that is probably what I will try next time.
I wasn't bluffing when I told my son that he had to wear a motocross Helmet when he rides BMX Freestyle. He took this nasty little spill the first day we got the Helmet. Good thing he had it on. It definitely made a difference.
http://youtu.be/LUO5D7AuyGE?t=45s
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shockabuku
Jul 20, 2013, 6:05 PM
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I've gone through many youth helmets in various sports and I've found that the most crucial adjustment in getting the thing to stay over the forehead properly isn't in the helmet sizing band, but rather in the chin strap. Usually tightening the front strap and lengthening the rear strap makes a big difference.
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dugl33
Jul 21, 2013, 9:57 PM
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I take my friends 10 year old climbing, and the black diamond tracer size small fits her well. It's fairly adjustable and light weight. She's on the small side for her age.
Good news is the helmet will continue to fit for quite a while. I can even fit it on my head but it looks like a yarmulke
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JasonsDrivingForce
Jul 22, 2013, 1:02 PM
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dugl33 wrote: I take my friends 10 year old climbing, and the black diamond tracer size small fits her well. It's fairly adjustable and light weight. She's on the small side for her age. Good news is the helmet will continue to fit for quite a while. I can even fit it on my head but it looks like a yarmulke
Thanks for that heads up. That Helmet looks better for smaller heads. Is it heavy? It looks a lot more substantial.
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dugl33
Jul 22, 2013, 8:31 PM
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JasonsDrivingForce wrote: dugl33 wrote: I take my friends 10 year old climbing, and the black diamond tracer size small fits her well. It's fairly adjustable and light weight. She's on the small side for her age. Good news is the helmet will continue to fit for quite a while. I can even fit it on my head but it looks like a yarmulke Thanks for that heads up. That Helmet looks better for smaller heads. Is it heavy? It looks a lot more substantial.
Not heavy at all in my opinion. About 8 ounces, which is half the weight of my old school petzl ecrin roc. It's a foam core helmet so maybe not as durable.
Seems like you can find the size small on sale pretty cheap too.
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TradEddie
Jul 25, 2013, 4:03 PM
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I've used a kids size Camp Armour since they first climbed outside (5yo?), it still fits both of them perfectly, and I know a moderator here who wears the kids size, so it clearly covers a range of heads.
Bring them to your local climbing store and try everything on, everybody is different and this isn't something you can buy online and expect every model to fit.
TE
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JasonsDrivingForce
Jul 25, 2013, 4:35 PM
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TradEddie wrote: I've used a kids size Camp Armour since they first climbed outside (5yo?), it still fits both of them perfectly, and I know a moderator here who wears the kids size, so it clearly covers a range of heads. Bring them to your local climbing store and try everything on, everybody is different and this isn't something you can buy online and expect every model to fit. TE
Unfortunately our local climbing store is REI and that was where we got the helmet for him. It is a kid sized helmet and it fits somewhat when he isn't sweaty. However, when he sweats it just does not seem to cover enough of his head to stay on properly.
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TradEddie
Jul 30, 2013, 3:17 AM
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Are you sure it's a kids size helmet? Given the declining knowledge of REI staff recently, is it possible that they gave you a womens size instead of a kids size?
TE
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JasonsDrivingForce
Jul 30, 2013, 1:07 PM
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TradEddie wrote: Are you sure it's a kids size helmet? Given the declining knowledge of REI staff recently, is it possible that they gave you a womens size instead of a kids size? TE
No I picked it out myself and it advertised it as a kid sized helmet. The helmet itself actually can be adjusted very small. The issue is that the helmet sits too high on his head.
The way it is designed it just will not prevent it from tilting backwards. That is why I want to try something different. He has a skateboard helmet that covers much more of his head and doesn't slip at all because of the foam that it uses.
The only issue with that helmet is that it is much heavier.
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TradEddie
Jul 31, 2013, 2:20 AM
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I don't know how to explain this well, but in addition to the rear adjusting wheel, and the sliding snap buckle under the chin, there is another adjustment that should fix what you are describing.
There is a plastic triangular fitting that takes the two straps from the front and rear of each side, then holds them together to pass under the chin to the buckle. You can slide one of the straps through this triangle to adjust. From what you are describing, you need to shorten the strap going to the front of the helmet, moving that slack to the strap going to the rear. It's finicky to adjust, but this should not only reduce the lifting, it should be much more comfortable because the chin strap will be moved forward, under the kids chin, not in his neck.
TE
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JasonsDrivingForce
Jul 31, 2013, 12:21 PM
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TradEddie wrote: I don't know how to explain this well, but in addition to the rear adjusting wheel, and the sliding snap buckle under the chin, there is another adjustment that should fix what you are describing. There is a plastic triangular fitting that takes the two straps from the front and rear of each side, then holds them together to pass under the chin to the buckle. You can slide one of the straps through this triangle to adjust. From what you are describing, you need to shorten the strap going to the front of the helmet, moving that slack to the strap going to the rear. It's finicky to adjust, but this should not only reduce the lifting, it should be much more comfortable because the chin strap will be moved forward, under the kids chin, not in his neck. TE
Thanks for this. I tried to adjust that strap but you are right it is finicky. I will try it again. If not then the skateboard helmet or one of the other climbing helmets will work as well.
Lot's of good info here.
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