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Carlo890


Aug 12, 2013, 12:00 PM
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Climbing Gym Investment
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Alright, so here's the deal. The San Fernando Valley has been in need of a climbing gym for way too long now. With so many residents and students in the area it doesn't make any sense to not have a gym here. I have a location and an amazing building, but no capital to create a gym the size I'm thinking of. I'm looking for a loan of any size, from whomever. If you are seriously interested contact me so we can talk in more detail and I'll get you a copy of the business plan. Carlo890@gmail.com

Cheers,
Carlo


(This post was edited by Carlo890 on Aug 13, 2013, 7:53 AM)


skelldify


Aug 12, 2013, 3:06 PM
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Re: [Carlo890] Climbing Gym Investment [In reply to]
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Have you tried..... a bank?


Carlo890


Aug 13, 2013, 8:08 AM
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I appreciate the reply, but unfortunately it is not the 1990's where banks are eagerly lending money out to new businesses with no financial history or proof that will reassure them a return on their investments. Even if I listed the numerous gyms that have opened up in the past few years in California or the rest of the country for that matter, they would want to see a financial records suggesting that this venture begin profitable.

So it made more sense for me to ask here; knowing that most of the members have either climbed at a gym, worked at a gym, or had friends in the industry and know first had the gains and risks of a climbing gym.

If you have any other ideas or questions please feel free to share or contact me, because no matter what you say you are still helping me out and for that I thank you.

Cheers,
-Carlo


(This post was edited by Carlo890 on Aug 13, 2013, 8:09 AM)


rgbscan


Aug 13, 2013, 8:59 AM
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Re: [Carlo890] Climbing Gym Investment [In reply to]
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Carlo890 wrote:
Alright, so here's the deal. The San Fernando Valley has been in need of a climbing gym for way too long now. With so many residents and students in the area it doesn't make any sense to not have a gym here. I have a location and an amazing building, but no capital to create a gym the size I'm thinking of. I'm looking for a loan of any size, from whomever. If you are seriously interested contact me so we can talk in more detail and I'll get you a copy of the business plan. Carlo890@gmail.com

Cheers,
Carlo

Why not put it out there on Kickstarter, IndieGoGo, or GoFundMe? We've got a small indoor bouldering co-op going here in MN - all volunteer driven - so it's definitely doable.


dynosore


Aug 13, 2013, 11:51 AM
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Carlo890 wrote:
Alright, so here's the deal. The San Fernando Valley has been in need of a climbing gym for way too long now. With so many residents and students in the area it doesn't make any sense to not have a gym here. I have a location and an amazing building, but no capital to create a gym the size I'm thinking of. I'm looking for a loan of any size, from whomever. If you are seriously interested contact me so we can talk in more detail and I'll get you a copy of the business plan. Carlo890@gmail.com

Cheers,
Carlo

If you have done your homework and really think this is viable, why not start with a small gym you can afford to build, and roll the profits over into expanding it? If you hcave no capital at all to put toward this, no one in their right mind will loan you the money. They take all the risk and you keep the profit. Just giving the investor's perspective here. Good luck with your gym.


Carlo890


Aug 13, 2013, 3:08 PM
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To Dynosore:

It's interesting how many people ask me why not start off small and then wait to grow as if a climbing gym is similar to a coffee shop or a bakery. Climbing gyms are built from scratch and made to last/stay at their location. In the process of moving to a bigger location, a good percentage of the rock walls and supporting steel structure will be lost; simply because when designed they are base off the structure and support of the existing building.

Also, if I do build a smaller gym, and become profitable, there are plenty of other competitors with the resources to build a bigger and better gym before I could save up the funds to do so myself. Or worse that would put me out of business after they take all my exist customers/ members.

As for investing, people who invest in anything take the "chance" in order to making more money. No matter how high or low the risk is it- the risk is always there. You can always lose the money you put it, look at Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, the list goes on.

So investors only have one things to go off of when making a decision whether to invest or not: the belief in individual or company in charge. All business are built of that initial belief; that the person or group selling their product or service can overcome the future hurdles and challenges, adapt to their surroundings, and come out above their peers.

So from a entrepreneurs perspective, the risk is not really the money- seeing how many is made and lost time and time again- the risk that our/ my efforts will pay off and leave me in a better financial and emotional state than I am in as of right now.

Thank you for the luck and wish you the best.

Sincerely,
Carlo


Carlo890


Aug 13, 2013, 3:26 PM
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To Rgbscan:

I took a look at Minnesota Climbing Co-op (http://www.mnclimbingcoop.com/), and they were able to build a very nice gym. The vision I have in my is on a larger scale. I want to create- as cliche as this sounds- a world class climbing gym, something people will enjoy for years to come or better yet travel to go to. Los Angeles has its share of climbing gyms, but I am aiming to create one that is newer, cleaner, and has more variety than the rest. And in order to create that, I will need more capital than I have seen raised on those sights.

And as I have been tracking the success of climbing gym business on those sights, no gym that I no of has ever been fully funded. Not to say that it is impossible of course, it's I just rather take a different approach.

I thank you though for the suggestion and would greatly appreciate any other ideas you might have.

Sincerely,
Carlo


acorneau


Aug 13, 2013, 4:55 PM
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Re: [Carlo890] Climbing Gym Investment [In reply to]
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Carlo890 wrote:
The vision I have in my is on a larger scale. I want to create- as cliche as this sounds- a world class climbing gym, something people will enjoy for years to come or better yet travel to go to. Los Angeles has its share of climbing gyms, but I am aiming to create one that is newer, cleaner, and has more variety than the rest


You'll need about $10 million (or more) to out-do Sender One...

http://www.senderoneclimbing.com/

Good luck.


dynosore


Aug 14, 2013, 8:36 AM
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Carlo890 wrote:
To Dynosore:

It's interesting how many people ask me why not start off small and then wait to grow as if a climbing gym is similar to a coffee shop or a bakery. Climbing gyms are built from scratch and made to last/stay at their location. In the process of moving to a bigger location, a good percentage of the rock walls and supporting steel structure will be lost; simply because when designed they are base off the structure and support of the existing building.

Also, if I do build a smaller gym, and become profitable, there are plenty of other competitors with the resources to build a bigger and better gym before I could save up the funds to do so myself. Or worse that would put me out of business after they take all my exist customers/ members.

As for investing, people who invest in anything take the "chance" in order to making more money. No matter how high or low the risk is it- the risk is always there. You can always lose the money you put it, look at Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, the list goes on.

So investors only have one things to go off of when making a decision whether to invest or not: the belief in individual or company in charge. All business are built of that initial belief; that the person or group selling their product or service can overcome the future hurdles and challenges, adapt to their surroundings, and come out above their peers.

So from a entrepreneurs perspective, the risk is not really the money- seeing how many is made and lost time and time again- the risk that our/ my efforts will pay off and leave me in a better financial and emotional state than I am in as of right now.

Thank you for the luck and wish you the best.

Sincerely,
Carlo

If you find a building that could eventually house a large gym, you could just do a partial build for now. Maybe "all these people" are being realistic Wink

As a guy who has done pretty well for himself, and has a variety of investments in businesses, I can tell you that you're going to have a tough time convincing investors, based on the little I've seen here. You admit you're not really differentiated from potential competitors, it doesn't sound like you have any skin in the game and want someone else to finance YOUR dream. I hope you don't think I'm trying to trash your idea, I'm not. I'm all for entreprenurial spirit. But, it seems you might have champagne dreams and beer budget. It's taken me twenty years of sacrifice to get where I am, you might have to bite the bullet and start small too. Something is better than nothing, right?


jomagam


Aug 14, 2013, 12:15 PM
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Re: [acorneau] Climbing Gym Investment [In reply to]
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acorneau wrote:
You'll need about $10 million (or more) to out-do Sender One...

http://www.senderoneclimbing.com/

Source for this information ?


rocknice2


Aug 14, 2013, 12:25 PM
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Carlo890 wrote:

As for investing, people who invest in anything take the "chance" in order to making more money. No matter how high or low the risk is it- the risk is always there. You can always lose the money you put it, look at Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, the list goes on.

Yes there is always risk but that varies with each investment and the compensation must suit the risk.

In reply to:
So investors only have one things to go off of when making a decision whether to invest or not: the belief in individual or company in charge. All business are built of that initial belief; that the person or group selling their product or service can overcome the future hurdles and challenges, adapt to their surroundings, and come out above their peers.

A motivated, dedicated and hard working entrepreneur is a given. It barely requires mentioning because it's not enough.
What is important is what can you offer that no other can. A functioning business that needs to expand due to high demand for your product/service. A valuable patent. Truck loads of profit. .... There will be no shortage of investors.
The sad fact is, there is no bar to entry for a new gym other than capital. That means anyone can open up shop. If there are large profits available, this brings competition and profits go down.

In reply to:
So from a entrepreneurs perspective, the risk is not really the money- seeing how many[money] is made and lost time and time again- the risk that our/ my efforts will pay off and leave me in a better financial and emotional state than I am in as of right now.

From an investors point of view. It's all about the money. As dynosore pointed out you need "skin in the game". The investor will not invest unless you have something to lose. Skin is extremely important. It's what convinces the investor that you'll be committed to your job and their profit. What good is investing in a business, if when the times get tough the entrepreneur just packs up and leaves? Why couldn't he? He's got no skin in the game.

I sincerely wish you all the success in the world.
Just understand that capital is hard to come by, for reasons that you haven't mentioned.
The old saying 'you can only get money if you don't need it' holds a lot of truth.


acorneau


Aug 14, 2013, 12:31 PM
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jomagam wrote:
Source for this information ?


Just a guess on my part, but I've seen lesser gyms in much cheaper parts of the country that cost ~$5mil to build and outfit completely.


jomagam


Aug 14, 2013, 12:51 PM
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acorneau wrote:
Just a guess on my part, but I've seen lesser gyms in much cheaper parts of the country that cost ~$5mil to build and outfit completely.

Wow, I would've had the under.


JasonsDrivingForce


Aug 15, 2013, 10:05 AM
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Re: [Carlo890] Climbing Gym Investment [In reply to]
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Are you seriously begging for money on a climbing forum? Climbers are the last people I think to ask when I need money.


JasonsDrivingForce


Aug 15, 2013, 10:47 AM
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Re: [acorneau] Climbing Gym Investment [In reply to]
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acorneau wrote:
Carlo890 wrote:
The vision I have in my is on a larger scale. I want to create- as cliche as this sounds- a world class climbing gym, something people will enjoy for years to come or better yet travel to go to. Los Angeles has its share of climbing gyms, but I am aiming to create one that is newer, cleaner, and has more variety than the rest


You'll need about $10 million (or more) to out-do Sender One...

http://www.senderoneclimbing.com/

Good luck.


A quick search came up with these figures.

"Evolution Rock + Fitness, said it plans to build the $3.1 million center"

http://www.syracuse.com/...ed_for_syracuse.html


(This post was edited by JasonsDrivingForce on Aug 15, 2013, 10:47 AM)


JimTitt


Aug 24, 2013, 10:41 AM
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Re: [acorneau] Climbing Gym Investment [In reply to]
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acorneau wrote:
Carlo890 wrote:
The vision I have in my is on a larger scale. I want to create- as cliche as this sounds- a world class climbing gym, something people will enjoy for years to come or better yet travel to go to. Los Angeles has its share of climbing gyms, but I am aiming to create one that is newer, cleaner, and has more variety than the rest


You'll need about $10 million (or more) to out-do Sender One...

http://www.senderoneclimbing.com/

Good luck.

Sounds reasonable, to expand the DAV hall in Munich to give ca 40% more capacity just cost $6.3m so probably to build the whole thing new would be in the $15m region.


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