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Reason why not to use belay loop to hook in... and why a 8 or bowline for certain situations cleared up?
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grandkodiak


Aug 31, 2013, 3:01 PM
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Registered: May 3, 2013
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Reason why not to use belay loop to hook in... and why a 8 or bowline for certain situations cleared up?
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I've always been curious as to why the belay loop on a harness is not used to tie in when climbing... is there a main reason for this? I have a few ideas on why it might be a not as good choice, and I have a few ideas on why it might be a better choice. I won't ever use it as the tie in point, but I've always been curious as to what made it near defacto as a belay loop only, and not as just "the loop" if you know what I mean.

Second, I often see that top rope books usually all recommend a figure 8 follow through as the tie in knot for belay climber action, but the bowlin as the sport/lead climber knot... and this recommendation given without explination in the same books sometimes without explination. Now, most sources Ive seen list a figure 8 as only reducing rope rate by 20%, while bowlins drop it nearly 40%. that alone would make me think that the 8 would be used reguardless of which style of climbing one would be performing... again, without explination of course.

thanks all!


vinnie83


Aug 31, 2013, 3:22 PM
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Registered: Jun 27, 2004
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Re: [grandkodiak] Reason why not to use belay loop to hook in... and why a 8 or bowline for certain situations cleared up? [In reply to]
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If you look closely at most harnesses the tie in portions are covered with additional webbing that isn't load bearing in order to make it abrasion resistant so that it can withstand the wear the comes from threading and unthreading the rope over and over. The belay loop is not designed to withstand the constant nylon on nylon wear, but is instead designed to create a more ideal loading for the belay/rappel biner.

Figure eight is recommended (and in many gyms the only allowed knot) primarily because it is easy to tie and visually inspect. The bowline is preferred by a lot of people who climb hard and take a lot of falls b/c it is much easier to untie. It would be pretty difficult to create a real world situation where you could break a rope even with the reduced strength of the bowline.


Danxz


Sep 1, 2013, 2:29 PM
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Registered: Aug 6, 2013
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Re: [grandkodiak] Reason why not to use belay loop to hook in... and why a 8 or bowline for certain situations cleared up? [In reply to]
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What is the reason you say "reason why" ? All reasons are why.


patto


Sep 1, 2013, 5:18 PM
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Re: [Danxz] Reason why not to use belay loop to hook in... and why a 8 or bowline for certain situations cleared up? [In reply to]
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Danxz wrote:
What is the reason you say "reason why" ? All reasons are why.

Incorrect.

"Reason(s)" can also be a verb.


Danxz


Sep 1, 2013, 9:33 PM
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Re: [patto] Reason why not to use belay loop to hook in... and why a 8 or bowline for certain situations cleared up? [In reply to]
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Ignorant peasant ! "Why" is redundant in "reason why".


grandkodiak


Sep 4, 2013, 10:57 AM
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Registered: May 3, 2013
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Re: [Danxz] Reason why not to use belay loop to hook in... and why a 8 or bowline for certain situations cleared up? [In reply to]
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Which definition of "reason" was I using?


Danxz


Sep 4, 2013, 2:43 PM
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Re: [grandkodiak] Reason why not to use belay loop to hook in... and why a 8 or bowline for certain situations cleared up? [In reply to]
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Surely there's an even bigger idiot out there who claims "the reason why is because" they love triple redundancy ?


onceahardman


Sep 4, 2013, 3:09 PM
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Registered: Aug 3, 2007
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Re: [Danxz] Reason why not to use belay loop to hook in... and why a 8 or bowline for certain situations cleared up? [In reply to]
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Danxz wrote:
Surely there's an even bigger idiot out there who claims "the reason why is because" they love triple redundancy ?

Brevity is the soul of wit.

I'm with you.


onceahardman


Sep 4, 2013, 3:14 PM
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Re: [patto] Reason why not to use belay loop to hook in... and why a 8 or bowline for certain situations cleared up? [In reply to]
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patto wrote:
Danxz wrote:
What is the reason you say "reason why" ? All reasons are why.

Incorrect.

"Reason(s)" can also be a verb.

Can be, but is not in this context.


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