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jwatt3


Sep 27, 2013, 3:36 PM
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More realistic climbing holds
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Hey a question for you all. This is in the survey but i'll put it here as well. What would you think about seeing holds in the gym that aren't as sculpted like normal holds in the gym but holds that would resemble the stuff we see outside. What would be some concerns or bonuses about this?


JimTitt


Sep 27, 2013, 11:42 PM
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Itīs been tried loads of times and itīs a rubbish idea. Climbing walls are for training and the holds should be designed to provide the optimal training benefit with the least possible injury risk.


marc801


Sep 28, 2013, 4:58 PM
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jwatt3 wrote:
Hey a question for you all. This is in the survey but i'll put it here as well. What would you think about seeing holds in the gym that aren't as sculpted like normal holds in the gym but holds that would resemble the stuff we see outside. What would be some concerns or bonuses about this?
What "stuff"?


Guran


Oct 1, 2013, 3:18 AM
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Here's the thing. The main difference between plastic holds and real rock is that the former (by economic necessity) are manufactured with limited variety.

This means that an indoor climber quickly recognises holds from below and can tell a perfect jug from a slippery sloper before committing to a move.

(Also route setters generally only bother to put up the bare minimum of holds needed for the intended sequence while natural routes have plenty of dead ends.)


So, to make an indoor route mode like "real" climbing it takes a wider set of holds (not easlily discernible from below) plus an "evil" route setter planting false alternative solutions.

Pros: More fun. Harder on sights.
Cons: More expensive.


JimTitt


Oct 1, 2013, 10:59 AM
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Well I suppose if you think onsighting sport routes in a gym is important......


Syd


Oct 1, 2013, 2:15 PM
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JimTitt wrote:
Well I suppose if you think onsighting sport routes in a gym is important......

Is onsighting sport routes outdoors "important" ? ;-)


Guran


Oct 1, 2013, 11:29 PM
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Not important. Definitely not. No climbing is really "important".

I don't climb for points, I climb for fun. As much as I'd like to be placing nuts in perfect granite cracks all the time everyday life tends to get in the way and indoor climbing is still more fun than not climbing.

So given that I do climb plastic I rather climb a fun, challenging, well built route than something that is more like a poor, brightly colored ladder.

And (to conclude this) on sight is not important, but a route where there is a real difference between on sight an redpoint is generally more fun. And fun is important. </rant>


jwatt3


Oct 2, 2013, 1:47 PM
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Hey Jim,
Thanks for that! That is a concern getting injured inside would be the worst thing i can think of happening but i would say that injury, excluding falling but like injured pullys and tendons and stuff like that, happens more inside than outside for the average climber. what do think of that?


marc801


Oct 2, 2013, 6:43 PM
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jwatt3 wrote:
Hey Jim,
Thanks for that! That is a concern getting injured inside would be the worst thing i can think of happening but i would say that injury, excluding falling but like injured pullys and tendons and stuff like that, happens more inside than outside for the average climber. what do think of that?
You still haven't answered my question: what kind of "stuff you see outdoors" are you talking about?


shotwell


Oct 2, 2013, 8:26 PM
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jwatt3 wrote:
Hey Jim,
Thanks for that! That is a concern getting injured inside would be the worst thing i can think of happening but i would say that injury, excluding falling but like injured pullys and tendons and stuff like that, happens more inside than outside for the average climber. what do think of that?

People tend to get minor tendon tweaks on plastic because they tend to climb a proportionally greater amount of time on plastic. It isn't an inherent difference to the medium.

My only finger injuries came outside; mainly because I spend far more time on actual stone.


jwatt3


Oct 2, 2013, 10:32 PM
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So are you saying that the medium doesnt really matter people are going to hurt tendons either way?


jwatt3


Oct 2, 2013, 10:38 PM
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Sorry marc801. I didnt see that question but the STUFF i am talking about is the unsymmetrical holds. Holds that resemble more of what we see outside, Not the perfectly symmetrical or man created holds. Maybe even identical holds from climbs outside.


shotwell


Oct 2, 2013, 10:53 PM
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jwatt3 wrote:
So are you saying that the medium doesnt really matter people are going to hurt tendons either way?

I am saying that people typically get hurt with movement choices, not necessarily hold geometry.


jomagam


Oct 2, 2013, 11:26 PM
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Re: [marc801] More realistic climbing holds [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
jwatt3 wrote:
Hey a question for you all. This is in the survey but i'll put it here as well. What would you think about seeing holds in the gym that aren't as sculpted like normal holds in the gym but holds that would resemble the stuff we see outside. What would be some concerns or bonuses about this?
What "stuff"?

The "stuff" I'd most like to see copied is the fact that holds outside usually intrude into the rock, while gym holds protrude from the wall. The latter makes climbing much easier because you don't need to remember where the feet are as you climb higher.


acorneau


Oct 3, 2013, 6:19 AM
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jomagam wrote:
The "stuff" I'd most like to see copied is the fact that holds outside usually intrude into the rock, while gym holds protrude from the wall. The latter makes climbing much easier because you don't need to remember where the feet are as you climb higher.

If you've never seen these...

Metolius "Inside-out" holds
http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/inside-out_holds.html


jomagam


Oct 3, 2013, 6:59 AM
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acorneau wrote:
If you've never seen these...

Metolius "Inside-out" holds
http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/inside-out_holds.html

These still protrude from the plywood, you just cannot step on top of them, right ?


rocknice2


Oct 3, 2013, 7:09 AM
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There's an incredible amount of holds out on the market. Tendon-ripping tweaker crimps to full-on two-handed buckets, and many more in between. There has been many attempts to cast actual outdoor holds. Inserts came and went. There's real rocks that you can bolt to your wall. There's even bolt-on tree roots.

Let's face it, once a hold has been touched it's sweet spot is remembered and if it's on another route you'll know how to grab it. This can be manipulated by changing the rotation of the hold.

You just can't match the variety of Mother Nature.


lena_chita
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Oct 3, 2013, 7:16 AM
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jwatt3 wrote:
Sorry marc801. I didnt see that question but the STUFF i am talking about is the unsymmetrical holds. Holds that resemble more of what we see outside, Not the perfectly symmetrical or man created holds. Maybe even identical holds from climbs outside.

I don't know where you climb, but there are plenty of "not-symmetrical" artificial holds out there. There are even holds that resemble "real rock". And some people even bolt small rocks to their walls.

But IMO the real rocks or the real rock-like features do not in any way enhance your gym-training experience.

I agree with jamagam on this:

acorneau wrote:
jomagam wrote:
The "stuff" I'd most like to see copied is the fact that holds outside usually intrude into the rock, while gym holds protrude from the wall. The latter makes climbing much easier because you don't need to remember where the feet are as you climb higher.

If you've never seen these...

Metolius "Inside-out" holds
http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/inside-out_holds.html
The inside-out holds require you to cut out a hole in the wall. In other words, it is something that you could instal permanently in some spots, and maybe switch the inside-out holds around between those spots, but you can hardly move them to completely new locations on a regular basis, unless you think that cutting 2-inch holes all over the plywood would enhance the structural integrity and the appearance of the wall.


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