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csproul


May 20, 2013, 12:02 PM
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Death on El Cap
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A climber has died on the Miur on El Cap. Sounds like he got caught in some rockfall (unclear if he pulled loose rock or if came from above) which cut his rope and caused him to fall the entire length of his haul line. Very unfortunate accident. Condolences to family/friends and especially his climbing partner, who survived.

Here is a news report:
http://www.mymotherlode.com/...mp;utm_campaign=News

and some discussion on Supertopo
http://www.supertopo.com/...Muir-Rescue-Recovery


gblauer
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May 20, 2013, 4:18 PM
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Re: [csproul] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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My condolences to family and loved ones.


moose_droppings


May 20, 2013, 4:49 PM
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Re: [csproul] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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So sorry to hear.
My condolences to family and friends.


Gmburns2000


May 20, 2013, 6:36 PM
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Re: [csproul] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
A climber has died on the Miur on El Cap. Sounds like he got caught in some rockfall (unclear if he pulled loose rock or if came from above) which cut his rope and caused him to fall the entire length of his haul line. Very unfortunate accident. Condolences to family/friends and especially his climbing partner, who survived.

Here is a news report:
http://www.mymotherlode.com/...mp;utm_campaign=News

and some discussion on Supertopo
http://www.supertopo.com/...Muir-Rescue-Recovery

sounds like a terrible accident. RIP and condolences to the family and friends.

Kudos to those on the rescue team, too.


socalclimber


May 21, 2013, 1:12 AM
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Re: [csproul] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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There is a good thread here:

http://www.supertopo.com/...Muir-Rescue-Recovery


milesenoell


May 21, 2013, 9:44 AM
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Re: [socalclimber] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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from Tom Evans:

I talked with Mark, the surviving climber from the accident yesterday, this morning and he told me about the events that befell them. Mason Robison was leading around the big, blocky overhang, just above the bivy, at the start of the final 700ft dihedral. He was about 20ft above the belay, when a piece of gear he placed (a camming unit) caused a large flake to fall upon him, as the gear pulled out of the rock. He fell backwards and outwards, past Mark. As he fell, the flake severed his climbing rope, a couple of feet from his tie-in to his seat harness.
With his climbing rope cut, he continued falling a distance of about 230ft, until the haul and tag ropes, (ropes not used to climb on, but to haul bags and gear) came tight. These other ropes are “Static Lines”, which do not stretch to absorb a falling climbers energy, and thus produce a bone breaking force on the climber, if they are his only rope when falling. They are never, intentionally, used for actual climbing, as they are not made for that purpose, but hauling bags instead.
His static lines were attached to a chest harness, also not intended to hold a falling climber alone, but used in conjunction with a seat harness. When the impact came onto his chest, instead of his hips, he was killed instantly. Since static ropes don’t stretch, they are ideal for pulling up bags, as the energy a climber uses on the rope when hauling bags, will not be lost due to stretching of the rope.
However, many climbers don’t use static ropes to haul bags, even though they are more energy efficient. It is just with this kind of accident in mind, that climbers will use a dynamic rope (one made to stretch and absorb a falling climber’s energy) to haul bags with, just in case the climbing rope gets cut. Then, they have a chance to be saved by the haul line, if it is tied into their harness. Whether or not Mason would have been saved by having a dynamic hauling line is uncertain…but with a static line, he never had a chance.

http://www.elcapreport.com/content/elcap-report-52013


majid_sabet


May 21, 2013, 10:51 AM
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Re: [milesenoell] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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using smaller dia static line for hauling or second rope is still common in big wall cause it makes it easier for haul or for second climber to jug on it but taking a 250 footer on any static line is dangerous and falling forces on climber can be fatal . I have seen reports on similar cases where rockfall cut the rope just right below the harness and I wonder if it would be worth asking rope manufacture to beef up the first few feet of tie-in area with some fiber material that could add a little safety in to rope. I know there is no grantee on where the next rockfall may damage the rope but just a thought and I personally do not mind paying little extra to get some protection 10-15 feet below my tie-in.


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jun 2, 2013, 8:51 PM)


USnavy


Jun 1, 2013, 9:28 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
taking a 250 footer on any static line is dangerous
Thank you for clearing that up for us.

Anyway, I was in Yosemite when this happened. It was a truly horrific event and I hope the climber's family can find peace. My deepest respects.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Jun 1, 2013, 9:32 PM)


skiclimb


Jun 2, 2013, 7:31 AM
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Re: [csproul] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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taking a 250 footer is dangerous .. period.

I was there too.. trying to figure out if and hoping Mason was alive at first.. very rough day.


(This post was edited by skiclimb on Jun 2, 2013, 7:33 AM)


USnavy


Jun 3, 2013, 11:05 PM
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Re: [skiclimb] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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It is worth nothing that apparently there was just another death on El Cap. If so, and it looks like it, that makes three El-Cap deaths in about a three-week span. All three incidents involved rock fall.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Jun 3, 2013, 11:07 PM)


csproul


Jun 4, 2013, 7:28 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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One on the Miur. One on the East Buttress. Where was the 3rd?


jumpingrock


Jun 7, 2013, 1:43 AM
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Re: [csproul] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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Quick question based on lack of knowledge:

Is it common at all to use double ropes on big walls in yosemite or is the hassle of the extra rope not worth the additional safety?


csproul


Jun 7, 2013, 4:53 AM
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Re: [jumpingrock] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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No, it's not common, at least in the USA (I can't speak to aid climber in the rest of the world). Traditional doubles are too skinny to hold up to the abuse of wall climbing IMO. And nobody wants to use two 10+ mm ropes for doubles, especially when you're already carrying a haul line and all the gear and other crap you take aid climbing. Wall climbers will sometimes choose a dynamic haul line so they have a backup lead line should their primary get damaged, but that'll not likely do you much good if your lead line is completely cut.


majid_sabet


Oct 18, 2013, 10:27 AM
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Re: [jumpingrock] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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jumpingrock wrote:
Quick question based on lack of knowledge:

Is it common at all to use double ropes on big walls in yosemite or is the hassle of the extra rope not worth the additional safety?

Double rope is very common or used to be common among non-north American climbers mainly in Europe and other parts of the world and still common in ice climbing community but I have not seen many climbers in Yosemite on 2x rope system . These days more climbers are moving toward lighter single long rope with dia less than 10mm. I personally rather climb on a 10.5 or even 11mm rope on questionable long pitch than worrying about extra few pound. Not that makes much of difference when 200 ponder is coming your way but still size matters.


5.samadhi


Oct 19, 2013, 2:59 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
jumpingrock wrote:
Quick question based on lack of knowledge:

Is it common at all to use double ropes on big walls in yosemite or is the hassle of the extra rope not worth the additional safety?

Double rope is very common or used to be common among non-north American climbers mainly in Europe and other parts of the world and still common in ice climbing community but I have not seen many climbers in Yosemite on 2x rope system . These days more climbers are moving toward lighter single long rope with dia less than 10mm. I personally rather climb on a 10.5 or even 11mm rope on questionable long pitch than worrying about extra few pound. Not that makes much of difference when 200 ponder is coming your way but still size matters.
You climb with a 11mm rope? You are definitely the only climber I have ever heard of that does that!


USnavy


Oct 21, 2013, 4:12 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
jumpingrock wrote:
Quick question based on lack of knowledge:

Is it common at all to use double ropes on big walls in yosemite or is the hassle of the extra rope not worth the additional safety?

Double rope is very common or used to be common among non-north American climbers mainly in Europe and other parts of the world and still common in ice climbing community but I have not seen many climbers in Yosemite on 2x rope system . These days more climbers are moving toward lighter single long rope with dia less than 10mm. I personally rather climb on a 10.5 or even 11mm rope on questionable long pitch than worrying about extra few pound. Not that makes much of difference when 200 ponder is coming your way but still size matters.
Again Majid is talking about a topic he knows nothing about. Virtually no one uses twin or half ropes on an aid climb. I have spent the better part of a year in Yosemite and I have ever even heard someone mention it let alone do it. Why? Because on a bigwall the second jugs the line. He doesent climb the pitch directly. It is not safe to use mechanical ascenders on double ropes and prusiking your way up El Cap is retarded at best. Accordingly, a single 10 or 11mm rope is the only real choice for real aid climbing.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Oct 21, 2013, 4:13 AM)


yves


Oct 21, 2013, 6:32 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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Actually, Majid is absolutely right on what he says about Europe and use of double rope even for aid climbing.


USnavy


Oct 23, 2013, 2:23 AM
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Re: [yves] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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yves wrote:
Actually, Majid is absolutely right on what he says about Europe and use of double rope even for aid climbing.
Bullshit. Majid is never right about anything and if you showed up to Yosemite with a set of doubles to climb an aid line on the Captain you would be the laughing stock of the park.


patto


Oct 23, 2013, 5:32 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
yves wrote:
Actually, Majid is absolutely right on what he says about Europe and use of double rope even for aid climbing.
Bullshit. Majid is never right about anything and if you showed up to Yosemite with a set of doubles to climb an aid line on the Captain you would be the laughing stock of the park.

Last time I checked Yosemite was still in the USA, not Europe.... Crazy


mojomonkey


Oct 23, 2013, 7:16 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
jumpingrock wrote:
Quick question based on lack of knowledge:

Is it common at all to use double ropes on big walls in yosemite or is the hassle of the extra rope not worth the additional safety?

Double rope is very common or used to be common among non-north American climbers mainly in Europe and other parts of the world and still common in ice climbing community but I have not seen many climbers in Yosemite on 2x rope system . These days more climbers are moving toward lighter single long rope with dia less than 10mm. I personally rather climb on a 10.5 or even 11mm rope on questionable long pitch than worrying about extra few pound. Not that makes much of difference when 200 ponder is coming your way but still size matters.
Again Majid is talking about a topic he knows nothing about. Virtually no one uses twin or half ropes on an aid climb. I have spent the better part of a year in Yosemite and I have ever even heard someone mention it let alone do it. Why? Because on a bigwall the second jugs the line. He doesent climb the pitch directly. It is not safe to use mechanical ascenders on double ropes and prusiking your way up El Cap is retarded at best. Accordingly, a single 10 or 11mm rope is the only real choice for real aid climbing.

Do you even read posts before pounding on your keyboard? Majid says doubles are more common for Euros in Europe, but hardly seen in Yosemite. He says he prefers 10.5 or 11.

And you jump on him... to concur that in your whopping almost-year of experience in Yosemite you haven't seen doubles, and that 10-11mm is indeed the smart choice.

USnavy wrote:
yves wrote:
Actually, Majid is absolutely right on what he says about Europe and use of double rope even for aid climbing.
Bullshit. Majid is never right about anything and if you showed up to Yosemite with a set of doubles to climb an aid line on the Captain you would be the laughing stock of the park.

Someone else then agrees that doubles are used on aid climbs in Europe, so you jump on Majid again to make a point about Yosemite nobody is debating?


USnavy


Oct 23, 2013, 8:29 AM
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Re: [mojomonkey] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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Four years actually, which includes 10 grade V and VI lines and many others, but nice try.

So please tell me then, how does the second follow on halves? And I am not talking about some A0 want-to-be "aid" climb, I am talking legit aid, A3 all day. With ropes that small, mechanical ascenders are really risky, prusiks suck and are also risky, prusiks are really hard to use on treversing pitches, and ascending fixed 8mm lines is risky because ropes that small have zero abrasion resistance when the wear is focused to a single location. I strongly doubt anyone, Euro or not, uses halves for legit, hard aid. Oh, and have you ever tried belaying someone on a 3-hour A4 lead with an ATC? No one does that, especially not for 20+ pitches. The logistics make it extremely unattractive with no real added benefit.

As far as reading before posting, shit no, what do you think this is, M Proj?


(This post was edited by USnavy on Oct 29, 2013, 7:14 PM)


petsfed


Oct 23, 2013, 9:04 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
yves wrote:
Actually, Majid is absolutely right on what he says about Europe and use of double rope even for aid climbing.
Bullshit. Majid is never right about anything and if you showed up to Yosemite with a set of doubles to climb an aid line on the Captain you would be the laughing stock of the park.

yves wrote:
Actually, Majid is absolutely right on what he says about Europe and use of double rope even for aid climbing.

Thought I'd get that out of the way. To the topic at hand: I highly doubt that anybody is going up a big wall with twin 7mm lines. That's just stupid. But if they're taking, say, doubles that are each between 8 and 9mm, that makes sense. Then, all one has to do for jugging is attach both ascenders to one line, and a gri-gri or cinch or what have you to the other line and jug away. Bonus, you don't have to tie backups as often, since the other device does it for you. Other possibilities include e.g. CMI's two-rope ascender (although at the princely sum of $180 a pop), the petzl shunt, or actually using prusiks, in the vein of "is it worth my life?".

If you're really curious about twin/half rope usage on a big wall, especially on hard aid, check out the sequence about climbing the Shark's Fin from the 2012 Reel Rock Film Tour.


majid_sabet


Nov 11, 2013, 2:16 PM
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Re: [mojomonkey] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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Don't waste your time educating our Sr major commando Nanny here. his lack of experience in around international climbers allows him to look at everything from his own window and every time you question his knowledge, he throws his years of climbing big walls in Yosemite and yet, never seen any proof of him been on any wall anywhere.


Gmburns2000


Nov 11, 2013, 5:02 PM
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Re: [petsfed] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
If you're really curious about twin/half rope usage on a big wall, especially on hard aid, check out the sequence about climbing the Shark's Fin from the 2012 Reel Rock Film Tour.

Just saw the trailer. Clearly using doubles, but nothing more than just that brief moment. Anyone got a link to that segment (non-trailer)? I suck at google.

Offnote: did Honnold pull of those three big climbs solo in a day? Saw the trailer of him clipping in and slipping a bit. That make me jump out of my chair. Crazy

Feels good to be posting something about climbing for once.


roninthorne


Nov 11, 2013, 10:46 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Death on El Cap [In reply to]
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So it took you less than half a page to turn an accident report and condolences into your own personal shit-throwing match.

Very impressive, as is your respect for the fallen climbers.

And people wonder why the numbers here at RC.com have fallen....

(Edited to remove majid's name since he didn't start this.)


(This post was edited by roninthorne on Nov 11, 2013, 10:51 PM)

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