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How many times should I try a problem?
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AdGrenoble


Oct 11, 2013, 3:12 AM
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How many times should I try a problem?
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While for really high grades I understand the need to spend time letting muscle memory in to send the problem, some people try a given V4-V5 problems dozens of time (could be for a whole session).

I am sending (indoors) about 50% of the V4s I try, but no V5 yet. Should I keep practicing V4s within my reach to get better/stronger or project to complete a V5? Spending hours trying a V5 seems like I am trying too hard just to achieve a grade but who knows...


Gravitron5000


Oct 11, 2013, 7:12 AM
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Re: [AdGrenoble] How many times should I try a problem? [In reply to]
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Yes you should keep practising V4s within your reach. Yes you should project V5s (and harder), as attempting to pull harder moves will make you stronger. It also would not hurt working on the V4s you can not send (as they likely are indicative of your weak areas). If you don't try hard, how do you expect to improve?


lena_chita
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Oct 11, 2013, 11:14 AM
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Re: [AdGrenoble] How many times should I try a problem? [In reply to]
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If you just keep climbing the same problems that you can already do, you are unlikely to just magically become able to climb the ones that you can't do.

You can use the problems that you can do to refine your technique, to work on endurance, etc. But you absolutely have to keep trying the things that you cannot yet do, in order to improve.

If you can do about half of the V4s that you try, what is it about the remaining V4s that make them not-doable for you?


pedro_sandchez


Oct 14, 2013, 1:06 PM
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Re: [AdGrenoble] How many times should I try a problem? [In reply to]
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As many times as it takes to send!

More specifically, I like to build a nice pyramid of grades when I'm trying to get a new notch in the belt. For example, to get to v5, I would look at the problems I have done in the last couple of weeks and see if when written down it forms a nice pyramid, like this:

V4 V4
V3 V3 V3 V3
V2 V2 V2 V2 V2 V2

Having finished 2 v4's wouldn't really mean I'm ready to send v5, but it at least means I'm in the ball park to start projecting them.

My sessions would then start to look something like this:
-warm up with some traversing/laps on v0/v1.
-chill and stretch for a bit.
-a couple v2's and a v3
-chill and stretch for a bit.
-repeat one of the v4's I've done previously to assess how I'm feeling.
-start sampling the v5's. I'll just usually try a few moves of four or five problems just see if anything seems inspring or I'll ask around for reccomendations.
-work that problem like mad
-send, or don't send, but either way get really tired.
-long rest, try a couple of v4's
-cool down on 2's and 3's
-go home and have a beer


Even more important is knowing how to thoughtfully project a problem.
I work hard problems from the top down.
I'll break a problem into about three sections depending on length. I'll then dial the top section. THen the middle sections, and finally the bottom. As I perfect one section I then focus on linking it to the next highest section.

So, if a problem has 12 moves, that is 3 four move sections. I'll dial the top four. Then dial the middle fore. Then link the two together. Then dial the bottom four. Then send.

Realistically, the sending usually comes on a later session, since figuring out all of the moves is usually pretty energy sapping when at your limit and sometimes it takes one whole session just to figure out a single section of something truly at your limit

Hope this is of some benefit.
Adam


(This post was edited by pedro_sandchez on Oct 14, 2013, 1:37 PM)


dagibbs


Oct 31, 2013, 2:24 PM
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Re: [pedro_sandchez] How many times should I try a problem? [In reply to]
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pedro_sandchez wrote:

I work hard problems from the top down.
I'll break a problem into about three sections depending on length. I'll then dial the top section. THen the middle sections, and finally the bottom.
Adam

Breaking a hard problem into sections makes sense to me -- but why do you work them top-down, rather than bottom-up?


edge


Oct 31, 2013, 2:49 PM
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Re: [dagibbs] How many times should I try a problem? [In reply to]
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dagibbs wrote:
pedro_sandchez wrote:

I work hard problems from the top down.
I'll break a problem into about three sections depending on length. I'll then dial the top section. THen the middle sections, and finally the bottom.
Adam

Breaking a hard problem into sections makes sense to me -- but why do you work them top-down, rather than bottom-up?

I personally don't work problems very often, but I've known several people who work a route top-down. Their reasoning is that psychologically you are topping out each time. I suspect that by dialing in the top, you will also have a better chance of being efficient and sending when you are pumped. Like most things though, it probably depends on the route how effective this technique is.


jomagam


Oct 31, 2013, 8:15 PM
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Re: [dagibbs] How many times should I try a problem? [In reply to]
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dagibbs wrote:
Breaking a hard problem into sections makes sense to me -- but why do you work them top-down, rather than bottom-up?

Because you'll be more tired at the top, so you want those moves wired even more.


dagibbs


Oct 31, 2013, 8:31 PM
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Re: [jomagam] How many times should I try a problem? [In reply to]
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jomagam wrote:
dagibbs wrote:
Breaking a hard problem into sections makes sense to me -- but why do you work them top-down, rather than bottom-up?

Because you'll be more tired at the top, so you want those moves wired even more.

Sure, but if you get the early moves more wired, you'll be less tired at the end.

But, mostly, what if you find that the way you come into a sequence is different from what you anticipated -- hands and/or feet not positioned the way you worked from?


jomagam


Oct 31, 2013, 8:43 PM
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Re: [dagibbs] How many times should I try a problem? [In reply to]
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dagibbs wrote:
jomagam wrote:
dagibbs wrote:
Breaking a hard problem into sections makes sense to me -- but why do you work them top-down, rather than bottom-up?

Because you'll be more tired at the top, so you want those moves wired even more.

Sure, but if you get the early moves more wired, you'll be less tired at the end.

But, mostly, what if you find that the way you come into a sequence is different from what you anticipated -- hands and/or feet not positioned the way you worked from?

Obviously you break up a route into sections that make sense; between jugs for example where you can reset your limbs. Doing it from the top also means that you're working the new moves fresh after a rest.

Do what works for you and the route. It'd be hard to go from the top on a 45 degree overhanging route.


Pedrolius


Oct 31, 2013, 10:35 PM
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Re: [AdGrenoble] How many times should I try a problem? [In reply to]
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If you don't care too much about the grade start making your own problems. Most gym problems (or boulder problems in general) have pretty subjective grades anyway.

Making your own problems can be heaps more motivating too, compared to that old taped problem you've tried a million times. Find a move you can JUST do, and then add another move you can JUST do... See how many more you can link together.

Try to make a problem with some sweet movement in it, or make a semi difficult circuit style problem (or figure 8) and see how many laps you can do without falling off or touching the ground!

Have a good time ignoring the grades and push yourself with fun hard moves and getting psyched on your own Vwhoknows problems.

At the very least it can be a good way to pass the time between frustrating attempt #125 and frustrating attempt #126 on that green V5.


5.samadhi


Nov 5, 2013, 2:48 PM
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Re: [dagibbs] How many times should I try a problem? [In reply to]
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dagibbs wrote:
pedro_sandchez wrote:

I work hard problems from the top down.
I'll break a problem into about three sections depending on length. I'll then dial the top section. THen the middle sections, and finally the bottom.
Adam

Breaking a hard problem into sections makes sense to me -- but why do you work them top-down, rather than bottom-up?
because thats what some sick japanese boulderer said on a video and I want to be like him.


Gmburns2000


Nov 5, 2013, 3:39 PM
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Re: [5.samadhi] How many times should I try a problem? [In reply to]
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5.samadhi wrote:
dagibbs wrote:
pedro_sandchez wrote:

I work hard problems from the top down.
I'll break a problem into about three sections depending on length. I'll then dial the top section. THen the middle sections, and finally the bottom.
Adam

Breaking a hard problem into sections makes sense to me -- but why do you work them top-down, rather than bottom-up?
because thats what some sick japanese boulderer said on a video and I want to be like him.

Ground up dudes, ground up.


flesh


Nov 6, 2013, 1:38 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] How many times should I try a problem? [In reply to]
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I suggest 10 of each grade before moving on. You progress faster.


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