Forums: Climbing Information: Injury Treatment and Prevention:
A2 Pulley "pop," now I have a messed up ring finger?
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Injury Treatment and Prevention

Premier Sponsor:

 


Alexjt011


Nov 17, 2013, 1:59 PM
Post #1 of 11 (3557 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 17, 2013
Posts: 9

A2 Pulley "pop," now I have a messed up ring finger?
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I had a "pop" in my left ring finger when climbing. I could move my hand but it hurt pretty badly. I only noticed the pain about an hour after the pop. The next days after the pop, I did not climb, and iced the area of pain. Apparently my tendon/muscle tore (I did not see the tendon sticking out though) so it was the tendon that ripped. I didn't climb for 3 months.

My ring finger is now crooked, but I can still climb normally. Some moves do hurt my ring finger though.

How can I fix the ring finger's position? I have been stretching the finger for a week now.


mitchellclimb


Nov 18, 2013, 4:16 AM
Post #2 of 11 (3512 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 7, 2006
Posts: 9

Re: [Alexjt011] A2 Pulley "pop," now I have a messed up ring finger? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I cannot help you on this one, sorry. But just out of curiousity, do you remember what type of move you were doing when the pop occured? Hand and body positions?


sungam


Nov 18, 2013, 7:42 AM
Post #3 of 11 (3487 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26620

Re: [Alexjt011] A2 Pulley "pop," now I have a messed up ring finger? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

If only there was, like, a place you could go where there were a bunch of people who all studied this type of thing and could tell you what to do. Such a place would be really hospitable.


hyhuu


Nov 19, 2013, 5:19 AM
Post #4 of 11 (3440 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 25, 2001
Posts: 492

Re: [Alexjt011] A2 Pulley "pop," now I have a messed up ring finger? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Alexjt011 wrote:
I had a "pop" in my left ring finger when climbing. I could move my hand but it hurt pretty badly. I only noticed the pain about an hour after the pop. The next days after the pop, I did not climb, and iced the area of pain. Apparently my tendon/muscle tore (I did not see the tendon sticking out though) so it was the tendon that ripped. I didn't climb for 3 months.

My ring finger is now crooked, but I can still climb normally. Some moves do hurt my ring finger though.

How can I fix the ring finger's position? I have been stretching the finger for a week now.

I can't tell you how to fix your finger as I'm not a Dr but I can tell you that when I popped my ring finger (8 years ago), the pulley was ruptured and my finger has been crooked ever since. I can still climb with it just fine.


Alexjt011


Nov 19, 2013, 4:37 PM
Post #5 of 11 (3402 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 17, 2013
Posts: 9

Re: [mitchellclimb] A2 Pulley "pop," now I have a messed up ring finger? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I had my ring finger, middle finger, and index finger on a crimp. It was an awkward hand position on the hold. I think I may have put too much weight on the fingers. All my fingers were stretched out, and not really crimping.


onceahardman


Nov 19, 2013, 6:40 PM
Post #6 of 11 (3389 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2473

Re: [Alexjt011] A2 Pulley "pop," now I have a messed up ring finger? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Alexjt011 wrote:
I had my ring finger, middle finger, and index finger on a crimp. It was an awkward hand position on the hold. I think I may have put too much weight on the fingers. All my fingers were stretched out, and not really crimping.

So, were you crimping, or not? Inquiring minds want to know.

Also, how did you determine it was a pulley, as opposed to ligament, tendon, capsule, etc?


mitchellclimb


Nov 19, 2013, 10:29 PM
Post #7 of 11 (3372 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 7, 2006
Posts: 9

Re: [onceahardman] A2 Pulley "pop," now I have a messed up ring finger? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

When you do scientific inquries you should never put the "wanted" answer in your question! Alot of mistakes have been made to this simple error. Some big cases of "child abuse" are probably the worst examples of this.

The answer to the unbiased question was "All my fingers were stretched out, and not really crimping." :-)


onceahardman


Nov 20, 2013, 2:58 PM
Post #8 of 11 (3322 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2473

Re: [mitchellclimb] A2 Pulley "pop," now I have a messed up ring finger? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

mitchellclimb wrote:
When you do scientific inquries you should never put the "wanted" answer in your question! Alot of mistakes have been made to this simple error. Some big cases of "child abuse" are probably the worst examples of this.

The answer to the unbiased question was "All my fingers were stretched out, and not really crimping." :-)

I don't "want" any particular answer. I am only searching for truth.

If my "index, middle, and ring fingers" are "on a crimp", I assume those fingers are crimping. A crimp, (to me) is not a type of hold, but rather a positioning of the fingers.

I think many people don't understand what crimping "really" is.

A workable definition: Crimping is hanging on to a hold with the distal phalanx, with the DIP in extension, and the PIP in flexion around 90 deg., with or without the use of the thumb.

I don't appreciate you making a parallel with child abuse.

PS: Again, Alex, how do you know it is a pulley injury, as opposed to some other injury causing a sore finger?


(This post was edited by onceahardman on Nov 20, 2013, 3:02 PM)


mitchellclimb


Nov 21, 2013, 3:25 AM
Post #9 of 11 (3287 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 7, 2006
Posts: 9

Re: [onceahardman] A2 Pulley "pop," now I have a messed up ring finger? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

You’re mistaken (again Smile). The parallel I’m trying to illustrate is “the power of suggestion” – child abuse was just the worst case I know of this. Poorly designed studies neglect to understand suggestion.

But your answer may have revealed why we disagree so much. Bundling crimp with and without thumb is summing two TOTALLY different scenarios. And concluding that crimping with a thumb is bad, based on crimping without a thumb, is – excuse me – at best naïve. I hope this has not slipped by peer review!! Can any peers please confirm this??

Youtube any of the pro-climbers, and you will see that they thumb-crimp routinely – perhaps >25% of holds are thumb crimped. I rarely, if ever, see the crimp without a thumb move.

If you truly seek the truth, then go back to the drawing board and recalculate with the thumb included. I am sure you will find that the hand positions / finger loads are very different and not directly comparable. Hint: When crimping with the thumb most of the bodyweight is actually carried by the thumb tendon. Leaving this out of any calculations shows me that the fundamentals are wrong and not understood.

Fortunately the meagre empiric evidence there is so far backs me up.

Over and out Wink


onceahardman


Nov 21, 2013, 11:47 AM
Post #10 of 11 (3248 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2473

Re: [mitchellclimb] A2 Pulley "pop," now I have a messed up ring finger? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

mitchellclimb wrote:
You’re mistaken (again Smile). The parallel I’m trying to illustrate is “the power of suggestion” – child abuse was just the worst case I know of this. Poorly designed studies neglect to understand suggestion.

But your answer may have revealed why we disagree so much. Bundling crimp with and without thumb is summing two TOTALLY different scenarios. And concluding that crimping with a thumb is bad, based on crimping without a thumb, is – excuse me – at best naïve. I hope this has not slipped by peer review!! Can any peers please confirm this??

Youtube any of the pro-climbers, and you will see that they thumb-crimp routinely – perhaps >25% of holds are thumb crimped. I rarely, if ever, see the crimp without a thumb move.

If you truly seek the truth, then go back to the drawing board and recalculate with the thumb included. I am sure you will find that the hand positions / finger loads are very different and not directly comparable. Hint: When crimping with the thumb most of the bodyweight is actually carried by the thumb tendon. Leaving this out of any calculations shows me that the fundamentals are wrong and not understood.

Fortunately the meagre empiric evidence there is so far backs me up.

Over and out Wink

Mitchell, I'm not sure why you want to engage in hand-waving this argument, rather than actually providing evidence which supports your position.

I have tried to be clear, but let me try to re-state things a bit.

There are many different types of finger injuries which occur in climbers. If someone assumes (s)he has a pulley injury, but never gets an accurate diagnosis, then one might be tempted to say "open gripping caused my pulley injury". Despite the fact that no competent daignosis was made. This point was made in one of the papers I linked.

Speaking of the papers I linked, I also gave you a strategy for doing your own research.

If you recall, Curt read the articles (actually the abstracts) and concluded:

In reply to:
If what you're saying is correct (and what I've read in the literature agree with you) I'm still puzzled how I have injured both middle finger and both ring finger A2 pulleys with open hand grips--but none with crimping grips.

So, when you hand-wave and say the " meagre empiric (sic) evidence agrees with you." No, it does not. If you think it does, then prove it.

em·pir·i·cal
/emˈpirikəl/
adjective
adjective: empirical1. based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.

I have presented a very small sample of three peer-reviewed scholarly papers, out of several thousand, all of which generally agree that crimping is linked to one particular kind of injury. You have waved your hands, and said (paraphrasing), "look, we have 3 or 4 people who say they have pulley injuries", (with no evidence of correct diagnosis), " so obviously your biomechanical equations are wrong."

I am always willing to be proven wrong. That is a great way to learn. You have only proven to be argumentative, as well as a bit too lazy to actually study some biomechanics, and to do some actual research.

Have a nice day.


madam


Nov 25, 2013, 2:55 PM
Post #11 of 11 (3103 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 95

Re: [Alexjt011] A2 Pulley "pop," now I have a messed up ring finger? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hey Alex,
in my opinion it really depends on what EXACTLY has ruptured. Pulleys are probably the most common and I know a few people who climb with ruptered pulleys without any problems (sometimes taping involved).

In my case it was ruptured extensor central slip ligament on a ring finger (see eg. here: http://www.jaaos.org/content/13/5/336/F1.large.jpg) The finger was then in a crooked position, I was not able to extend it fully. I got rid of it partially by an operation (hand surgeon specialist did that - a climber as well). Currently the finger still looks crooked however it is not painful anymore. I tape it from time to time depending on the type of the climb.

The best would be to see a specialized doctor if you wanna have better understanding of what happened...

...good luck...

adam


Forums : Climbing Information : Injury Treatment and Prevention

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook